Downwind66

Ryan - That's not good, but, better than what we saw this morning! Tell me what's going on in the cockpit such as 1) Are you using ILS approach or landing manually? 2) Altitude heights (ILS intercept or a magical number you use for manual landings 3) flap settings, have you verified the flap settings in your aircraft cfg file? Then on the ground, do a rear external view to make sure they are extending the way they are supposed to. My flap settings (type 1, don't mess with the type 2's) on the 787-8 are 0-1-5-10-20-25-30. Believe me, I have seen some strange entries or lack of by some developers and I am sure TDS is not exempt from that list either! Oh, and I make the turn to final with 25* flaps 155 KIAS, then drop airspeed down at a point later to 150 KIAS and just before the bottom drops out at the glide scope intercept and the descent begins, I lower flaps to full flaps 30* You can bump that airspeed up to 155 KIAS, but I wouldn't go any higher than that! Couple things I do, I try to use the ILS wherever I can. I get my altitudes from Sky Vector for the appropriate airport you are landing at. I set my Nav 1 to the appropriate ILS frequency for that airport.Once the bottom falls out (AP altitude disengages) at your glide scope intercept, I set up a 500'/min descent rate (some say this is a wasted step) and I ride out the glide scope. At 600' AGL, I disengage the AP and APPR, at 500' I disengage the AT. Time to stay focused, ground is quickly coming to you. Oh, do you have Approach callouts downloaded on your aircraft? Those will help! Okay, at 10 - 20' (altitude callouts), I will hit the F1 key to kill any residual throttle you have left in the engines. Now it is just a matter of EASING the yoke back lightly to keep the nose wheel slightly off the runway. When the airspeed drops enough, the nose wheel should drop gently to the runway on it's own! Okay, my observation of the last video, shows the aircraft coming down at a higher rate of descent than what you want. This is why I like ILS/Localizer only approaches. If you have the ILS settings setup properly, the aircraft and the ILS systems will take care of bringing you in at the proper descent rate. You're probably wondering why I physically set the descent rate on the way down? ILS is going to do it's thing regardless of what I have set, that's why people think that it is a wasted step. BUT, don't forget, at 600' AGL you are disengaging that AP and APPR buttons. If there is any chance of the descent rate working on my landings after I disengage these buttons, I will make sure I set the descent rate! Just me, but it makes me feel better doing it! One thing to keep in mind Ryan, all altitude calculations in your landings are AGL. If the field elevation of the airport is 435' and you want to disengage the AP and APPR at 600' AGL, you will want to add the 600' to the 435' and the altimeter reading should be the 1035' Some altimeters will give you both values (and i do welcome those for obvious reasons). But, if you only have one altitude available it will be a reading above sea level. Anyway, that is my method, I am sure many more might chime in and give you something different. Use what works for you! I do like your videos, you did do a good job on those, at least anyone looking at your thread will have an idea of what you have been fighting! Good luck and happy flying! - Rick :cool:

Ryan - I just looked at the config for my 787-10. Stall speed no flaps is 155, stall speed with full flaps 124, big difference. I would start there, it sure looks like a stall to me. I don't know what your personal technique is, but I would start looking at that! Watch the video again, the plane is dropping out of the sky for some reason! Rick

Ryan - With this video, you are sure to get some input from other members. I for one, had no idea it was this bad, I thought the main gears touched the ground and then the nose slammed to the runway. This is something totally different than that! What's the saying, "A picture is worth a thousand words!" Good luck Ryan, maybe now you will get the input/help you are looking for! Rick

Ryan - That is worse than just the nose slamming to the ground. I found this site this morning, you might want to try one of their TDS downloads, even says ok for P3d !! Also, freeware, no money needed! Another question, why is this aircraft landing in the grass and not on the runway? Something doesn't look right. This almost looks like the plane has stalled? Maybe hitting the F1 too high, creating a stall? Just a thought............... Everything looks good until you pass the roadway, and then the A/C just falls out of the air. What are you inputting to the A/C? The A/C is in a good attitude for landing even without your help, but something happened to cause the drop? https://www.rikoooo.com/downloads/viewdownload/55/783 Thanks for the video. Rick :cool:

Ryan - You have mallcott, a seasoned veteran at this, saying it is not you, it is your aircraft. He is saying the TDS aircraft was meant for FSX, not in a P3d environment! You obviously don't buy that! You say it is you, which I would have to somewhat agree with that. I am not discounting what mallcott has brought up. You have people here who want to help. I for one have offered every suggestion that I know of, and only have a couple left. 1) mallcott might have a valid point, do you have any other TDS/FSX aircraft that work fine that might prove his theory to be wrong? 2) If it is you, you have others that have offered help, but want to see a short video clip of what your approaches might look like, maybe they might see something you are missing? See Jethro's and Pepper's comments above! I offered a suggestion for you to land with an external view which might show you what you are doing. I never heard back, so I don't know if you ever did that? 3) If you don't want to work with others in solving your problem, don't ask for the help! 4) You say you are not giving up, and I think that is good up to a certain point! I just had some computer issues, I too said I am not giving up, it took me 5 months to finally find a solution that worked. If you have that kind of time and patience, by all means, go for it! We wish you luck in finding the solution! 5) As a "last resort," give up on the TDS 787 and move on to something that does work! May not mean going to another 787, just might mean moving on to another one of your aircraft that does work for you! Start enjoying the program for what it is! And with that, I will end this. Just remember, the members on here "willing to help" can't reach thru the computer to see what you are doing, it takes a lot of patience and cooperation on what they are asking or suggesting to you do or to provide them, in giving you sound advice. Bear with them, you are the one that has the problem, time to listen, or you might find yourself on your own with this! Good luck! Rick :rolleyes:

Jethro and PEPPER - If you read my post #16, I have had the same problems with the Boeing 777-300 line as Ryan is having with his 787! I have been thru many freeware downloads of the 777's, transferring most of them to file 13 after not being able to tame these beasts! I currently have 3, 2 fly like they should, when I want them to fly. The 3rd, it will raise it's ugly head once in awhile and give me a fight, but they are all keepers, finally! Bottom line and I am not going to shoot TDS in the foot, but I have never been impressed with any of the TDS models I have downloaded. I tried explaining to Ryan that he may just have to move on to another download, but he said everything he has tried, gives him the same results and he feels it is him and not the plane. Might be, I can't argue that, but how long do you fight this before you move on to something else that will meet your expectations? In my case all 3 birds, started out with issues, kind of like having 3 wild horses that need to be broken! I got 2 of them flying the way they should, took many many hours of tweaking but I did it! That 3rd one, still is fighting and that's why I have kept it, i won't give up, not just yet that is! I'm not going to offer any more suggestions to Ryan, as I think he is over-whelmed with what doesn't work. Maybe between the two of you, you might be able to convince him to do some landings with his aircraft set to an outside view, say left rear 1/4 looking forward, and just let the plane fly on it's own to touchdown, no help, no flare and then try his way, same outside view! It's hard to do that, thinking the plane will crash! He might be able to see just how high that nose gear gets with him flying?If he has his approach set up and has confidence that the gs_proportional_control (in the Autopilot section of the aircraft.cfg) is set properly, the aircraft will almost land itself. Most freeware downloads come with this setting set at 9.52, BUT, my default 737's are set at 25.0, my default 747 is set to 18.0, so that 9.52 might just be a baseline setting that developers use. This setting will work for most of the aircraft out there, but not all of them! The way I get my freewares set up properly is to fly the ILS approach, see where the aircraft wants to touchdown. If it wants to land short of desired touchdown point, the setting needs to be increased. If the aircraft wants to land beyond the desired touchdown point, the setting needs to be decreased. Just takes a lot of practice landings! Once he can say he has that setting "spot on," then he can move on to the aircraft and/or himself! Good luck guys, oh and by the way, he is in Sydney Australia, so that puts him 14 hours ahead of my time South Florida, so he is a hard guy to converse with! Later - Rick :cool:

I had the same problems with the B777-300, I now have 3 777-300's, one wants to act up once in awhile and the other 2 are just as gentle as anyone could ask for! Go figure! I guess every once in awhile a bad one comes along, could happen with payware, could happen with freeware! All my aircraft downloads are freeware, if I come across a bad one, it goes to file 13, and I move on the another freeware download, that simple! No money lost, just a little time in the process of searching for another! I am somewhat picky on what my expectations are, I can't keep pulling my hair out as I lost most of that years ago! Good luck with this particular aircraft! I think you have tried most everything you can think of and what we have offered! Enjoy it for the way it is, or use another of one of your aircraft that works better for you! Rick :cool:

Ryan - Sorry, I'm trying to tell you everything that I do to make this landing successful, but I keep remembering things! When you have turned to final and just after the glide scope kicks in and you start your descent, you will see the Alt hold light go out, at that time, I usually set a rate of descent at 500' per minute. Many may tell you, that isn't necessary as the glide scope will determine the rate of descent for itself and that is true. I feel better setting it because at 600' you are going to disengage that A/P and APPR, and if my setting the rate of descent to the 500'/min is going to make a difference in making that approach & landing a success, I will do it! At first, you might forget to do it, but after doing it a few times, it becomes automatic for you! Ryan - I've thrown a lot at you. I hope something I mentioned works for you. You did say you enjoy the 787 and you were going to stick with it until you get it right, which is good! It's a nice aircraft for sure, I have 4 variants of the 787 and they all are a pleasure to fly! Anyway, good luck, happy flying! Rick :cool:

Mr Z - That's what I couldn't understand. Ryan mentioned the 787 and I have never had any problems with a 787, of course, my downloads weren't TDS either. I have 4 787 aircraft and really a breeze to land. The 777's, however, are the ones that acted up on me! And, now, Stan above seems to have his TDS 787 flying without issues. I don't know, it occurred to me when fighting the 777's, if the aircraft is already in a nose up attitude, and close to where you want it to be when the wheels touchdown, why does there have to be a "flare" by the pilot. Just let the aircraft land on it's own then control everything else involved in getting the aircraft slowed down to exit the runway! It has worked great for me on the much larger jetliners. I did try a 787 this morning and I had to help just a little to get the nose up where it belongs, but the nose didn't slam down to the runway after touchdown either! Mr Z, I am reducing airspeed to 155 kias when turning to final with 25* flaps, and then just prior to the drop in the glidescope, I reduce it down to 150 KIAS 30* flaps and that has worked well for me. Checklists say 155 descent, but i tried the 150 and I like that! Thanks for your feedback Mr Z. At least there are more thinking along the lines of what I had suggested to Ryan! Thank you, too, Stan! Rick

Ryan - Here are some pics I had of an approach I made into Raleigh Durham, NC RWY 5L. I have not touched the yoke at all after disengaging the A/P, APPR and AT. The attitude this aircraft is in, doesn't get any better than this! I had one earlier in the 787, that looking from the outside view, I had to just barely ease a flare to keep the nose wheel off the ground a bit more! [ATTACH=CONFIG]204197[/ATTACH] Approach DC10 [ATTACH=CONFIG]204198[/ATTACH] Just above the runway [ATTACH=CONFIG]204199[/ATTACH] Touchdown, no help on my part. Nose gently drops down on it's own! Try practicing flying from an outside view, such as how these pics are shown, I think that might help you see what you might be doing? As you can see from these pics, how could I have helped this DC10 any by touching the yoke? I would only have made the approach and landing that much worse off than what I did! Enjoy - Rick

Ryan - Jethro might be on to something with the checking the sliders. Also, when dealing with freeware downloads, one area I have always checked when having problems, is the "Autopilot" section of the aircraft.cfg file. Here is a copy of my 787-8 settings just so you can have something to compare to your settings. See if anything stands out as "suspicious." You never know what might be the culprit! [autopilot] autopilot_available=1 flight_director_available=1 default_vertical_speed=1800.000000 autothrottle_available=1 autothrottle_arming_required=1 autothrottle_takeoff_ga=1 autothrottle_max_rpm=90.000000 pitch_takeoff_ga=8.000000 use_no_default_bank=1 use_no_default_pitch=1 default_pitch_mode=0 default_bank_mode=0 max_pitch=10.000000 max_pitch_acceleration=1.000000 max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt=2.000000 max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt=1.500000 max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt_breakpoint=20000.000000 max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt_breakpoint=28000.000000 max_bank=25.000000 max_bank_acceleration=1.800000 max_bank_velocity=3.000000 max_throttle_rate=0.100000 nav_proportional_control=9.000000 nav_integrator_control=0.250000 nav_derivative_control=0.000000 nav_integrator_boundary=2.500000 nav_derivative_boundary=0.000000 gs_proportional_control=9.520000 gs_integrator_control=0.260000 gs_derivative_control=0.000000 gs_integrator_boundary=0.700000 gs_derivative_boundary=0.000000 yaw_damper_gain=0.000000 I'll leave this with you. Hope you find what's going on. Like I said, i had same problems with the Boeing 777-300ER, but never the 787! It can be frustrating, that's for sure! Oh, and if you ever need checklists, here is a good source. Your aircraft will be in the Boeing 7E7-800 issue. http://freechecklists.net/simchecklists.asp Rick :cool:

No, Ryan, don't give up just yet. I use FSX and I was surprised when you said you were having problems with the 787. I had the same results with the 777 on landings, I would flare and like you described, felt like a runaway elevator, nose wheel quickly falling to the runway. I did some changing of the way I land the larger jetliners and surprisingly, the 777 seems almost normal now. I land all the "big boys" ILS (actually some would call my method a non-precision approach, more accurately called a localizer only approach). I follow the glide scope down and at 600' AGL I will disengage the A/P and the APPR, and then at 500' disengage the AT. This combination seems to set up a nice landing attitude with the larger jetliners. Forgot to mention, about 150KIAS, 30* flaps. I ride this all the way to just above the runway and click the F1 to idle back the engines. No flare what-so-ever, let the back wheels hit the runway and if needed, lightly control the drop with the yoke. I had a few aircraft that the nose was playing hard to get in coming down, and then i just tapped on the brakes once and down it comes! Use your outside views as the aircraft is approaching the runway and you will see what i am talking about! Try this and see if it doesn't work out better for you! I can sense that you are at wits end with this aircraft and I was the same way with the 777. Let me know how you make out! Everyone does things differently, if my method doesn't work, someone else will come along and offer their way of doing it! Good luck! Rick :cool:

+1 on that Jim! That newly acquired bird of yours is so sweet looking! - Rick :cool:

No more replies or comments out of me for this topic, that is for sure! Rick:rolleyes:

Jim - I can believe that for more than one reason, did he get the same tech to look at it again, or did he luck out and got someone new that was Pro Windows 7? I have nothing against Windows 10, plenty of people out their running that system and are quite pleased with it. I run Windows 7 Professional, and it has been good to me. I currently have had some minor issues since going to an external disk drive, and maybe some of my settings did not agree with system, but I am sorting that out and I think I just about have those minor issues resolved! Anyway, glad he got the FSX going, for sure! Rick :cool:

Dogdish - You know what? We could kick this thing around for the rest of our lives, but it has not really solved anything. Microsoft says to download to the default path of C:|Program Files (x86), members of Flightsim.com say, "No, no, don't do that, you will bring on problems to yourself if you do! Load the program in a separate directory and all will be good! I did exactly as others have done, followed the instructions by Microsoft and have not had any adverse problems with running or managing the program in the past 5+ years I have had it! Mr Z last evening said "youze" guys will probably be okay until you try to edit either aircraft.cfg or panel.cfg files and then you might see the reasoning why you should not download as Microsoft suggests! I do edit these files on most all of the freeware downloads I have added to my collection. It has not given me a bit of trouble doing so! I'm not going to entertain discussing this any longer! Last evening, I merely jumped in on the conversation to assure GBJim, that I too, had installed FSX to the C:\Programs (x86) directory, and not to worry, as I had not had any problems what-so-ever with doing so! Big mistake on wanting to participate with a fellow member on this site! More often than not, you usually get caught up in a confrontation of some sort, because your opinion doesn't agree with others! I have finally gotten beyond that! I stopped listening to Microsoft since they tried to push Windows 10 down everyone's throat, they let Internet Explorer 11 go by the wayside, and what a mess I had with that! Seems like they are letting it go to the newer Edge which I hear is also going to be a nightmare. No thanks, Microsoft, you have lost my business for sure! At the present, I moved on to Google Chrome for a browser, my Flight Simulator X still runs perfectly, even though I installed it to the wrong directory! "It is what it is!" It will not get changed until it starts being an issue and that hasn't happened in the 5+ years it's been installed! Continue to encourage new members wanting to join the flight sim community, to make sure they download their flight sim to your choice of installs. I guess I was too late to get the word and I just followed the instructions I had at the time! It works, and that to me is all that matters! I fly these simulated aircraft, I edit the files to make them somewhat better than I received them and life goes on! I am pleased with what I have, not looking to move on to anything different! Have a nice day! Rick :cool:

Dogdish - See, that's what I don't understand. I loaded my FSX according to Microsoft instructions, and I have never had any issues with editing aircraft.cfg or panel.cfg files, NEVER. I've never had to do anything you are mentioning, Opening notepad as Administrator first. Tonite, I was doing some tweaking to a panel config and I noticed the changes I was making to the panel.cfg was also showing the notepad open in the lower task bar. I just made a change from internet explorer to Google Chrome and I have never noticed notepad open in the task bar until i made that change to Chrome! All I know, many on here will tell me, tell Jim (GBJim) that we loaded the FSX program wrong (and this is the consensus of those who have had problems loading FSX in Program Files (x86). This is what you should be seeing and feeling, kind of like what a doctor can tell you what kind of pain or no pain you should be feeling? If I loaded the program according to Microsoft and contrary to popular belief, and the computer is running FSX just fine, I am not concerned with it! It performs fine, it allows me to tweak the aircraft and panel cfg files just fine, and I am fine with the installation! As i stated earlier, I thought I had 177 aircraft in my collection, but one recent download just added another 5 to it. If I were having problems, I don't know how I could accumulate that amount without changing the FSX installation to something other than what I have! Jim - I in no way want a war either! The point I was trying to make with you. I too, loaded according to Microsoft and all is good, NO PROBLEMO! It hasn't been an issue for me and sounds like not an issue for your installation either! All is good over here in Sunny Florida and the sim still makes me smile! Have a nice evening guys and gals! - Rick :cool:

Mr Z, if your reference "you guys" is directed towards Jim and me, I will reply to your comment from me! I edit aircraft.cfg and panel.cfg files all the time. Seems like that is a necessity in downloading/installing freeware aircraft! I have had no issues doing so, at least, not to blame where my flight sim program was downloaded! I'd love to hear some examples of this, as it surely isn't happening with my installation! Maybe Jim can read your comment and my reply and see if he is noticing any problems on his side! Rick :cool:

Jim - I installed my FSX Gold boxed edition (minus the acceleration disk) 5-6 years ago, and not knowing or hearing of the warnings about not installing the program into the Program File (X86), that is exactly where my FSX got installed to! I have since then, at latest count, accumulated some 177 aircraft, combination of default and freeware downloads! No issues to speak of, so far! AND, that's where it will remain until I start having issues. It was my understanding that most of the problems were with scenery add-ons, I might be mistaken, but that is my understanding? I am not big on scenery add-ons, as I am very pleased the way my computer performs right now and I am not going to load it up with scenery add-ons or the acceleration disk for FSX, for fear that might send my computer over the edge of what it is giving me right now! I wouldn't be too worried about where your FSX is residing until you start having issues, which may not ever happen? If it is performing well for you and you have not had any issues so far, I think you will be "good to go!" If you "go down in flames" as a result of where you installed the program, rest assurred, I will probably be right behind you! Happy flying and enjoy your flight sim! - Rick

Enjoy the FSX! Don't underestimate Windows XP as I believe Mr Zippy on this site claims his computer is still operating with XP and in the process of helping others and seeing what he performs with that computer, it's hard to believe it is still standing up to whatever he can throw at it! When I purchased my FSX, I had some doubt that my newly purchased computer would be able to run it, but same thing, it's running fine! I am running an i5 processor 3.2 Ghz Win 7 and is meeting my demands. When I purchased the FSX Deluxe Gold boxed, I installed the 2 FSX Deluxe discs, but never downloaded the 3rd disk, which is the acceleration disk, which I believe if I tried that additional disk, the computer would quit in protest! I've been thankful for what I can run, it allows me to download additional aircraft! I have NOT tried any of the scenery add-ons out there. That too might put the computer over the brink. You just can't get greedy when you're operating with an older system, or one that doesn't have the extra horsepower to meet the demands of add-on expansions and scenery software! If it's working, enjoy it! You will know when it is time to move on to something with a little extra to handle the new goodies you will find along the way! Later, and happy flying! And welcome to this forum community. You have a great bunch of guys and gals that participate not only for their own needs, but the needs of others. You will like this group for sure! Rick :cool:

Happy flying, you picked a good one to concentrate on! I enjoy mine, a little slow for me at times, but I have other faster when I feel the need for it! - Rick

Before changes: [ATTACH=CONFIG]203621[/ATTACH] After changes: [ATTACH=CONFIG]203622[/ATTACH]

I think they are all good! Default, freeware, payware (probably, can't say, I haven't done any payware). I have FSX and I always wanted to do something with the DC-3 and then I found a freeware download, an upgrade to allow Autopilot, VOR head etc which would allow ILS landings. I did that, was very pleased, but still not enough. I started replacing gauges/instruments, radio stacks, even found an updated panel background, all flat black so I didn't have to look at the old tattered beat up panel. I got it now to where I enjoy it! And, they are a Hoot to fly! I have the default models and I believe 2 other freeware downloads that I have added to them! Anyway, enjoy the DC-3/C47 venture. It's a nice break away from the newer more complex aircraft! Rick