My issue with Windows 10 upgrade

[vgbaron]

@Brian - it's just the opposite - they are allowing the auto update to be disabled for the beta testers as it causes issues. What I am talking about it what MS has announced on their website regarding what the update policy will be.

 

I expect there will be a LOT of hacks to disable that "feature" but the point is that it should not have to come to that. Also, I can not find the link but I did read that hacking the update policy results in Windows being flagged as "non genuine" with the resulting endless nag screens.

 

Look, I can see the point - to MS, the majority of users barely understand how to turn the computer on much less be responsible for keeping it current. So, like the UAC, they protect us from ourselves. The problem is with those users who ARE computer literate and want to maintain THEIR system as THEY see fit - I am posing the problem - I don't have an answer as to how they can accomplish both.

 

I just know that as long as they have that hard line policy, I will not be using W10 except on one of my testbed systems just to stay familiar with it.

 

As has been said before, MS is pushing the home computer in the direction of the smartphone.

 

Vic

[Rupert]

@Brian -

 

As has been said before, MS is pushing the home computer in the direction of the smartphone.

 

Vic

 

Viv,

 

I agree, although it really seems to me MS is learning from Apple. If MS can gain that much control, they can also keep things not bought from them or licensed by them from working. Apple, not just the iPhone has done that from day one.

[lnuss]

Apple, not just the iPhone has done that from day one.

 

Which is a big part of the reason I've never bought ANYTHING from Apple, nor will I until they change that. I know many other folks the same way.

[Rupert]

Which is a big part of the reason I've never bought ANYTHING from Apple, nor will I until they change that. I know many other folks the same way.

 

Exactly my thoughts about Windows 10!

[darryl737]

Totally agree with the Apple comment and it is also the reason I have never or ever will buy a Apple product. The last Apple product I ever used was a Apple IIe when I was in collage.

 

I hope that the forced update will be done away as well. I like the majority of members here are computer savvy enough to keep their systems updated and free of anything nasty that may infect other users, however we are in the minority in the wider windows user base. I don't like the fact that if win10 stays in its current guise I will have to purchase a more expensive licence so that I can choose to delay certain updates for up to 3 months.

Which brings me to my next point. If you have ever read the full versions of your agreement when you first installed windows you will realise that the only thing you purchased and own is the licence to run windows. It states that MS retains full ownership of the OS. That statement is important because that unfortunately means they can at anytime and without permission change anything they like in your OS. They can also withdraw your use of windows anytime they wish, for any reason they wish.

 

I am I worried about the forced updates, not really, as long as they stay to critical and security updates only. Maybe I would feel more unhappy if I had ever had a bad experience with a update that effected my PC performance of hardware, but I haven't.

 

We all have the choice of what OS we will use, at least until we have to change due to software becoming less compatible with our OS.

I will be sticking to win7 for my FSX rig, it works well and I wont change for the sake of change.

 

Forced updates as much as I don't like it, I also don't find it a major issue to be at this early stage in win10s development something that you need to worry about.

[mrzippy]

My automatic updates are turned OFF! Long live XP;)

[loki]

Exactly my thoughts about Windows 10!

 

Which is ironic is this case as you can still disable automatic updates under the current version of Mac OS X, and I think for the beta for the upcoming version too.

[alaskancrab]

I hope that the forced update will be done away as well. I like the majority of members here are computer savvy enough to keep their systems updated and free of anything nasty that may infect other users, however we are in the minority in the wider windows user base. I don't like the fact that if win10 stays in its current guise I will have to purchase a more expensive licence so that I can choose to delay certain updates for up to 3 months.

 

All it takes is one clever looking email, that gets your attention, you accidently click on it and you are infected with one of those bugs from the last 3 months. You can be as savvy or illiterate as you want, but even sometimes I'm a bit tired.

[alaskancrab]

http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/07/what-amateurs-can-learn-from-security-pros-about-staying-safe-online/

 

Need I say more?

[vgbaron]

Alaskan - you CONTINUE to miss the point completely!

 

No one is saying you should ignore or not install critical updates - the complaint is about having them FORCED upon you.

 

I look at every updates ready to install on my system(s) and I will usually install them AFTER vetting that they have not caused issues with other systems.

 

The problem is MS has three types of customers:

 

1) those who haven't go a clue as to how a system works

 

2) those that THINK they have a clue as to how a system works

 

3) Those who DO have a clue as to how a system works.

 

Having built my first computer over 40 YEARS ago, I put myself in CAT3 - my issue is that MS wants to treat me as CAT1 - and I resent it.

 

Not even mentioning the conspiracy theories that abound about MS getting more and more control of your system - just like smartphones.

 

Vic

[alaskancrab]

So you know better than Microsoft... basically that's what it comes down to.

 

I think you are overestimating your abilities. And by the way in the real world people vet the Operating System itself, you know when things actually do change.

[DominicS]

So you know better than Microsoft... basically that's what it comes down to.

 

I think you are overestimating your abilities. And by the way in the real world people vet the Operating System itself, you know when things actually do change.

 

Let's keep this thread friendly:)

 

It makes for interesting reading, so it would be a real shame to close it.

 

Cheers

 

Dom

[scott967]

There's been plenty of botched Microsoft updates pushed out to the world, so let's not get into the "Microsoft knows best" mode. But even if every pushed update was perfect, I don't accept that giving Microsoft that right is necessary or needed. Of course, there is the option not to update to Win 10. This thread is really just opinions and obviously MS couldn't care less what some flight sim guys think. They will do what they think is in their corporate interest, which is turning Windows into a service that you will use on their terms.

 

As far as drivers, I guess in theory AFTER the driver is pushed to you, you are supposed to be able to back it out and then hide it, but testers on the current Win 10 builds report that isn't working all the time. So YMMV applies here.

 

scott s.

.

[darryl737]

Having built my first computer over 40 YEARS ago, I put myself in CAT3 - my issue is that MS wants to treat me as CAT1 - and I resent it.

 

Vic, I am with you on that point. As I said most of us on this site are in the majority CAT3 users. In the general user base we are in the minority however.

I don't resent what MS is doing by lumping all user types on the same level and can understand their thought process behind it.

I am annoyed that you will have to pay a premium for a version of win10 that will give you the option to delay updates, that I think is a little underhanded.

[vgbaron]

Vic, I am with you on that point. As I said most of us on this site are in the majority CAT3 users. In the general user base we are in the minority however.

I don't resent what MS is doing by lumping all user types on the same level and can understand their thought process behind it.

I am annoyed that you will have to pay a premium for a version of win10 that will give you the option to delay updates, that I think is a little underhanded.

 

I believe a great majority of simmers are on W7Pro64 or 8.1 pro which would entitle them to a free upgrade to w10 pro. and delay updates. Unless you are referring to the Enterprise edition which is $$$$.

 

@Alaskan -

 

Yes I DO know better than MS what *I* want on *MY* system. Some people are sheep and just follow blindly - which is sad for them - but I don't live my life that way and not about to start now.

 

Just FYI, the coders at MS are no better than you or I - they can and often DO make mistakes.

 

I know you'll probably consider it another lame site but you might also want to look here:

 

http://www.askwoody.com/

 

Just a small bit of info on how a bad MS update can screw your system.

 

Vic

[alaskancrab]

There's been plenty of botched Microsoft updates pushed out to the world, so let's not get into the "Microsoft knows best" mode. But even if every pushed update was perfect, I don't accept that giving Microsoft that right is necessary or needed. Of course, there is the option not to update to Win 10. This thread is really just opinions and obviously MS couldn't care less what some flight sim guys think. They will do what they think is in their corporate interest, which is turning Windows into a service that you will use on their terms.

 

As far as drivers, I guess in theory AFTER the driver is pushed to you, you are supposed to be able to back it out and then hide it, but testers on the current Win 10 builds report that isn't working all the time. So YMMV applies here.

 

scott s.

.

 

The only third party software they push out as mandatory is Adobe/Macromedia Flash updates. But then again I wish they'd just kill it altogether. After the recent out of band Flash updates I've just disabled it in IE, and only cut and paste into Chrome.

 

But I can count the number of times an update has gone bad on one hand... Unless something is actively being exploited in the wild, Microsoft tends to take it's time.

[vgbaron]

@Alaskan - as you mentioned about one slip in an email - same applies - one slip in an update only in that case, the fault lies with MS.

 

Look, I am not bashing MS - the overwhelming majority of updates are just fine BUT it just takes one to hose your system. Yes, I have image b/u but why should I be forced to do that through no fault of my own?

 

I just would prefer if MS cut the more experienced some slack. Now, HOW they can do that AND take care of CAT1 - that's another issue entirely. I'm just outlining m,y perceived problem, not a solution.

 

Vic

[alaskancrab]

@Alaskan - as you mentioned about one slip in an email - same applies - one slip in an update only in that case, the fault lies with MS.

 

Look, I am not bashing MS - the overwhelming majority of updates are just fine BUT it just takes one to hose your system. Yes, I have image b/u but why should I be forced to do that through no fault of my own?

 

I just would prefer if MS cut the more experienced some slack. Now, HOW they can do that AND take care of CAT1 - that's another issue entirely. I'm just outlining m,y perceived problem, not a solution.

 

Vic

 

Or maybe it's constantly CAT3 telling CAT 1 and 2 that the new version sucks. It's like the start menu thing. Who the heck uses the start menu anymore? There is a quick launch bar for a reason. Windows 10 comes out and people think they brought back the start menu but they didn't, they simply resized the start menu from Windows 8 to make it look like it's from 7.

 

IF CAT 3 people are going to constantly cause messaging problems just because they don't feel like paying for an upgrade, then I'm with MS, force those changes and if you don't like it, try Ubuntu. At the end of the day it's both a business and an operating system. Moving the OS forward is far more important than pleasing CAT 3 which is a minority.

[vgbaron]

Or maybe it's constantly CAT3 telling CAT 1 and 2 that the new version sucks. It's like the start menu thing. Who the heck uses the start menu anymore? There is a quick launch bar for a reason. Windows 10 comes out and people think they brought back the start menu but they didn't, they simply resized the start menu from Windows 8 to make it look like it's from 7.

 

 

 

IF CAT 3 people are going to constantly cause messaging problems just because they don't feel like paying for an upgrade, then I'm with MS, force those changes and if you don't like it, try Ubuntu. At the end of the day it's both a business and an operating system. Moving the OS forward is far more important than pleasing CAT 3 which is a minority.

 

I haven't read any post in this thread that says that the OS sucks. The OS is looking good - it's just one aspect that I don't care for. Stop being so defensive. The various features like launch bar are there for those who like using them. The start menu is their for those who like it.

 

You are being awfully testy about W10 - have a lot of MS stock? :)

 

Fortunately W10 is not a necessity for anything but DX12 and the upgrade is optional. I would venture a guess that after release, it won't be too long before a workaround to the forced updates will be available.

 

Some folks blindly follow the party line and others do not.

 

Vic

[alaskancrab]

I haven't read any post in this thread that says that the OS sucks. The OS is looking good - it's just one aspect that I don't care for. Stop being so defensive. The various features like launch bar are there for those who like using them. The start menu is their for those who like it.

 

You are being awfully testy about W10 - have a lot of MS stock? :)

 

Do lines of code count both in the new W10 UWP apps and ASP.NET/Azure space count?

 

I wasn't trying to suggest or defend anything... I was just saying if you want to be worried about the updates, what we've been discussing shouldn't be the focus. It's massive changes to the UI and user experience in general that you should be worried about. And yes, for me to add the latest and coolest features, sometimes that requires everyone to update their OS in sync.

[lnuss]

sometimes that requires everyone to update their OS in sync.

 

But it might be something I specifically DON'T want. Ride with the herd, if you like...

[Rupert]

 

And yes, for me to add the latest and coolest features, sometimes that requires everyone to update their OS in sync.

 

Tell that to all the Jeep owners. They're not too thrilled their rides' brakes, transmission, etc. have been proven hackable while they are driving! Just like all the other automaton cars can be hacked as well. There are tons of instructions on the web showing how to build a very cheap hack box to unlock car doors and autostart & presumably steal cars.

 

I don't think having my PC's abilities destroyed by bad code or hacked code on a mandatory update is the same as getting killed by a hacker taking over the controls of your car while you are driving. But the same concept does apply here.

 

It is still my machine. Windows 10, if it contains mandatory updates, will not go on my machine.

[vgbaron]

I wasn't trying to suggest or defend anything... I was just saying if you want to be worried about the updates, what we've been discussing shouldn't be the focus

 

The focus is the title of the thread. I am not concerned about the system changes, user experience at this point. When I find parts of those that I do not like or especially DO like, I will start another thread.

 

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but what really scares me about WHAT I PERCEIVE TO BE YOUR OPINION - is the suggestion that MS is God and they know better than we lowly users what WE need to run our systems. If I've misunderstood your position, I apologize, but if not - I feel so sorry for you and anyone else who shares that opinion.

 

I just caution to NOT just accept whatever is thrown at you just because it's MS, or Apple or .....

 

Vic

[alaskancrab]

I just caution to NOT just accept whatever is thrown at you just because it's MS, or Apple or .....

 

Vic

 

It's called riding the bear...MS had to do it with IBM, and now the rest of us have to do it with MS and Apple. They own our customers not the other way around.

 

Just look at the Flight Sim world, people refused to ride the bear, and look what that got them.

[vgbaron]

The fun has already begun.....

 

http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/584078/windows-10-automatic-updates-start-causing-problems/

 

Several important points there.

 

Vic