Are there no new simmers on FlightSim.com anymore?

[dlfrenchmd]

Seems a dearth of questions. Am I missing something? Or in the wrong place? Or just getting old? 

[mrzippy]

Welcome to old age!  I've started counting backwards!  I'm 23 again! 

[lnuss]

Given that there are over 110K posts between the FSX and FS2004 forums over the last 20 or so years (plus whatever was not brought over from the old system), and 31K or so in MSFS2020 over the last 3+ years, perhaps the new folks are mostly over there with the newer sim. The Outer Marker is similarly barren.

 

Also, if I recall correctly, the OM and Newcomer sections were at the top on the old system, instead of being down here out of the way.

 

[jgf]

I think it's also due to differing attitudes in gamers today.  Few want to take the time to learn anything, they just want to hop into a game/sim, do/win everything, and move on to the next "latest greatest". 

 

Even in the MSFS forums do you see people asking how to use navigation equipment, how to manage engines or fuel systems?  It's the same in race sims, no one wants to learn how to setup a car, "do you have some setups I can download, I don't have time to do it myself" (a mindset akin to thinking if you buy the same shoes as an Olympic sprinter you will run as fast as they do).

 

So people still using these antique sims have little to ask, they've learned already (from my stream of stupid questions I obviously am not part of that crowd).

[PhrogPhlyer]

Read an interesting article about "satisfaction."

The sage group of users here get satisfaction from trying/failing/learning/building/tweaking/etc.

Many of the newer users get "the same level" of satisfaction from having someone do it for you and then they use it.

Expectations are evolving.

The "let me take this apart and figure how it works" type vs. the "can't I just call an Uber?"

[loki]

As much fun as it is to get into the "new generations don't want to learn" stereotypes (pretty sure Socrates started it), a major factor is that most of the younger generation don't use traditional web forums like these ones in general. Head over to Reddit, for example, and the MSFS specific subreddit has well over 100,000 members, and there are a couple other flight sim related subreddits on top of that. Plenty of users over there seem to be pretty serious about learning to fly. Then there are also the official MSFS forums hosted by Microsoft/Asobo, Discord, Facebook and other options. Add-ons for MSFS have mostly coalesced around Flightsim.to, further decreasing interest in new users coming here. In short, I would put the lower activity levels here down to a lot more competition from other places on the internet.

 

[PhrogPhlyer]

1 hour ago, loki said:

As much fun as it is to get into the "new generations don't want to learn" stereotypes

Not sure where you got that from. I was talking about satisfaction, and the role these forums may play in that.

Asking questions, digging into the details.

Not once did anyone in this thread go down that path of stereotype.

Interesting about other forums that could be pulling from here.

Make on wonder how to increase participation and user felt usefulness of FlightSIm.

For me, this is my primary site, only using others when I can't find something here.

[jgf]

I'm just going by the topics of threads 15-20 years ago and now.  This is not a "younger generation" observation but a "new generation" observation.

[MicHealey-FS4Webport]

I literally need another lifetime to get to all the flight sim software I have. Particularly since I still think FS4 with all it's Add-Ons was/IS the most fun (on CompuServe). LOLz. Talk about being old...

[jgf]

I know the feeling.  There's about 135g of FS9 files on an external usb drive, and untold more on CDs and DVDs in the hall closet ...75% of which I've yet to install.

[NFM]

I wouldn't consider myself a new simmer (I'm playing different versions of flight simulator for about eight years now) but I'm still relatively young (16 years).
I totally agree with the title. There aren't many new simmers here on this website. So here's what I think:

• Compared to other places where you can start discussions (Reddit, Discord, Flightsim.to, etc.) this website here isn't just as modern as the others. The file system isn't very organized and not comfortable to use. And most of the available files are for the older versions of flight simulator (which are no longer used by the majority of simmers).
   
• If you play MSFS you will at some point stumble across flightsim.to. They are just more present. For example, you can find them on social media. They know how to make their platform more known and how to reach the younger generations. Meanwhile you will barely find flightsim.com on social media or somewhere else where you can reach young people.
   
• And yes, gaming and simming isn't the same anymore. More people than ever are gaming. Many of which are just casual players. They enjoy flying around and that's it. They don't want/need to know how every system of the aircrafts works (which is totally fine). 

Please note that I like flightsim.com. It is a good platform with a lot of flightsim history. But somehow it couldn't keep up with other platforms out there which is a little bit sad. 

[loki]

14 hours ago, PhrogPhlyer said:

Not sure where you got that from. I was talking about satisfaction, and the role these forums may play in that.

My apologies for misreading your comment.

 

14 hours ago, PhrogPhlyer said:

Interesting about other forums that could be pulling from here.

Make on wonder how to increase participation and user felt usefulness of FlightSIm.

For me, this is my primary site, only using others when I can't find something here.

Like this is your primary site, for many others Reddit, Discord (one of the most aptly name apps out there) and other social media platforms are theirs, so that's where they formed new flight simulator communities. At this point I'm not sure what would be needed to increase interest here.

[dlfrenchmd]

Thanks so much for all the comments. Very informative. Especially NFM. Thanks for that insight.

Dan

[PhrogPhlyer]

3 hours ago, NFM said:

Please note that I like flightsim.com. It is a good platform with a lot of flightsim history. But somehow it couldn't keep up with other platforms out there which is a little bit sad. 

And here is the rub, how to engage with the younger/newer simmer, sharing not lecturing, fun and vibrant.

Makes me rethink how I respond and engage with comments.

Thank NFM, at 16 I had my first flight, even though I spent most days at my local airport (N87) starting at 10 yrs old.

I hope aviation gets into and stays in your blood for many years to come.

[Rupert]

22 minutes ago, PhrogPhlyer said:

And here is the rub, how to engage with the younger/newer simmer, sharing not lecturing, fun and vibrant.

Makes me rethink how I respond and engage with comments.

Thank NFM, at 16 I had my first flight, even though I spent most days at my local airport (N87) starting at 10 yrs old.

I hope aviation gets into and stays in your blood for many years to come.

 

+1!!

 

My first "flight" was as a passenger in a Piper Cub all the way around a short grass runway twice.  The pilot had seen my standing and staring several times and asked if I'd like a ride? 

 

Since then I flew as a PIC (Pilot In Charge) as soon a I could get a license till I could no longer pass a Flight Physical. 

 

Now I sim and try to make it s close to RW as I can.  But I try to remember many others consider flight sim a game.  If that works, why not?  Maybe a spark of interest in RW flying will occur.  If not, that's OK too.

 

NFM please feel welcome here!

 

Michael

[Lonesome Cowboy Burt]

On 9/10/2023 at 5:05 PM, dlfrenchmd said:

Seems a dearth of questions. Am I missing something? Or in the wrong place? Or just getting old? 

I havn't been here long, but there is a definite lack of soul. the old retainers don't engage much except with each other.

I'm sure it has a grand history but its fading away.

[jgf]

Well, younger folk naturally gravitate to the "latest, greatest";  flightsim.to is only a few years old, flightsim.com is over 25 now (I joined in '98 and it was well established then).  And people creating new files will naturally upload to the site they use most.  But many newcomers to flightsim, especially MSFS, will fly around for a few months, tire of it, and move on;  the ones that stay will eventually find the older sites/forums.

 

 

[ViperPilot2]

On 9/10/2023 at 12:33 PM, jgf said:

I think it's also due to differing attitudes in gamers today.  Few want to take the time to learn anything, they just want to hop into a game/sim, do/win everything, and move on to the next "latest greatest". 

 

Even in the MSFS forums do you see people asking how to use navigation equipment, how to manage engines or fuel systems?  It's the same in race sims, no one wants to learn how to setup a car, "do you have some setups I can download, I don't have time to do it myself" (a mindset akin to thinking if you buy the same shoes as an Olympic sprinter you will run as fast as they do).

 

So people still using these antique sims have little to ask, they've learned already (from my stream of stupid questions I obviously am not part of that crowd).

 

Or just about any Consumer Goods, from a KitchenAid table blender (Jacques Pepín) to the latest and greatest Golf Ball ([insert PGA/LPGA/LIV Player here])

 

Note: I used one of my Five (5) Daily Likes on the last Post; I think I have one left...

[Lazerson]

It's certainly a different environment. I'm still pretty young, at 23, but between my freshman year of high school and now there's been a massive change in how young people interact with games and technology as a whole. I was introduced to FSX in 2006 by a family friend's kid who went on to be a software engineer, and he taught me about it as a platform to be messed with and experimented with and that's how I've always treated it. A lot of younger people, kids who are teenagers now, are in a kind of "walled garden" of technology, and have grown up in an environment where software wasn't something to be messed with and everything just kind of....works! Forums like this and sim outhouse are unfortunately dated, although some more computer oriented people I know think of forums as the best way to get questions answered.

[Lazerson]

8 hours ago, Lonesome Cowboy Burt said:

I havn't been here long, but there is a definite lack of soul. the old retainers don't engage much except with each other.

I'm sure it has a grand history but its fading away.

I've been on and off this site since 2011, using this account since 2016. The recent revamp has certainly changed the feel.

[PhrogPhlyer]

15 hours ago, Lonesome Cowboy Burt said:

but there is a definite lack of soul. the old retainers don't engage much except with each other

I don't see this as a valid reflection of this site as a whole, maybe because I am one who tries to engage and be helpful as often as I can.

There is so much activity throughout all the sim version users, with scenery and aircraft enhancements, group events, and sharing of fundamental piloting knowledge and experiences.

The amount of sharing is incredible within the vibrant community.

[PhrogPhlyer]

6 hours ago, Lazerson said:

A lot of younger people, kids who are teenagers now, are in a kind of "walled garden" of technology, and have grown up in an environment where software wasn't something to be messed with and everything just kind of....works!

Interesting perspective. Many of us who are longer in the teeth enjoyed building our own computers (when 64K was lot of memory) and learning every non-published shortcut to software programs (not apps). FSX to me is still an unfinished canvas waiting for more colors to be added. Creating new paints and scenes, and getting them to actually work and look relatively good, is a challenge that will keep me going for many years to come.

[wobbie]

And I'm still here, after 20 years of simming.

The good old days of the VA club I belonged to. WE met every second Saterday. The first thing we did was to unload our cars, as decent laptops were non-existant then

The days of disconnecting the tower, mouse, keyboard & 2 CRT monitors, then reconnecting everything in our clubhouse, & hearing the dreaded beeps on switch-on.

All was fine when we opened the tower & made sure RAM was seated correctly.

Then having hours of fun, then disconecting everything & starting the loading cycle over again.

 

Good days indeed.

& I'm still using FS2004,& it is still well supported by fantastic freeware guys. I also use P3D4.5, but my heart in with FS2004, with it's range of Golden Aviation scenery & planes.

The Ford Tri-Motor project still keeps me very busy, with it's Factual, Fun & Fictitious projects, all unique to the older sim. 

 

Cheers,

Robin

[Lazerson]

6 hours ago, wobbie said:

And I'm still here, after 20 years of simming.

The good old days of the VA club I belonged to. WE met every second Saterday. The first thing we did was to unload our cars, as decent laptops were non-existant then

The days of disconnecting the tower, mouse, keyboard & 2 CRT monitors, then reconnecting everything in our clubhouse, & hearing the dreaded beeps on switch-on.

All was fine when we opened the tower & made sure RAM was seated correctly.

Then having hours of fun, then disconecting everything & starting the loading cycle over again.

 

Good days indeed.

& I'm still using FS2004,& it is still well supported by fantastic freeware guys. I also use P3D4.5, but my heart in with FS2004, with it's range of Golden Aviation scenery & planes.

The Ford Tri-Motor project still keeps me very busy, with it's Factual, Fun & Fictitious projects, all unique to the older sim. 

 

Cheers,

Robin

This reminds me of when I was a cadet in the Civil Air Patrol. We'd do orientation flights in a Cessna 182Q out of Fallbrook Airpark (which is next on the docket for me in ADE), and one of my fellow cadets would bring a laptop and a joystick and we'd mess around with FS2004 in between flights. I do love FS2004, at one point I was running it with the entire Golden Age & CalClassic setup. An absolute blast. I just enjoy the interface of FSX a little bit more and I find I can get more out of ADE with FSX.

[Lazerson]

6 hours ago, PhrogPhlyer said:

Interesting perspective. Many of us who are longer in the teeth enjoyed building our own computers (when 64K was lot of memory) and learning every non-published shortcut to software programs (not apps). FSX to me is still an unfinished canvas waiting for more colors to be added. Creating new paints and scenes, and getting them to actually work and look relatively good, is a challenge that will keep me going for many years to come.

I think that simulators like FSX can be a great way for younger folks to get into software and computers! It's a remarkably easy program to mess with, with all these plain text config files and very simple nomenclature, plus TONS of utility programs and a still-active forum culture.