Is it just me?

[stinger2k2]

Hi all,

 

Is it just me that thinks the last video released after the developers event looks as though it is stuttering? In particular look out of the left window of the C172.

 

Although the comments from the attendees said it was appearing to be running at 30fps+ it doesn't appear smooth.

 

It worries me because if they are hitting lowish fps at this stage what is going to happen when they add in AI and ATC?

 

It of course looks stunning but the last 11 years have been spent worrying about FSX fps , i don't want another decade of tweaking instead of flying.

 

Of course I am aware that this is a pre-alpha build and many months of work is yet to be done, but all of that eye candy may yet come at a price.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

Stinger

 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Edited October 8, 2019 by stinger2k2

[dogdish]

Good point.

 

I don't know how much of a hit ATC will make because it's not graphics, but AI aircraft will sure make a hit depending of course on how many are in the frame.

[lnuss]

It worries me because if they are hitting lowish fps at this stage what is going to happen when they add in AI and ATC?

Keep in mind that a pre-alpha program is a looong ways from being optimized, and some things may be internally kluged to allow testing, until they get further in the development and can then implement the proper function. They don't just insert an FPS function that stays in the finished program. Development is MUCH more complex than that, so don't judge the performance of the final program by what you see in an early demo -- the final could be either better or worse than what you've seen, perhaps by a large margin.

[zswobbie1]

Depends on how many are watching at the same time, & it could also be your PC buffering.

[tiger1962]

Depends on how many are watching at the same time, & it could also be your PC buffering.

 

The same limitation will affect the scenery streaming for FS2020 ;) as well - network issues were cited as the possible cause of 3-6 second pauses even at the world premiere event for a small, select audience. The only way they can realistically reduce that effect is to have mirror servers around the world for the scenery and weather. A costly solution...

Edited October 8, 2019 by tiger1962

[stinger2k2]

Depends on how many are watching at the same time, & it could also be your PC buffering.

This is why i asked "is it just me". So nobody else sees the same stutters then?

 

Btw my download speed is 37mb ps.

 

Cheers

 

Stinger

 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[loki]

The only way they can realistically reduce that effect is to have mirror servers around the world for the scenery and weather. A costly solution...

 

Which is what they have with their Azure servers. There are plenty of CDNs these days for exactly these sorts of uses. Netflix, iTunes, Google and Bing maps, and many others are already doing this, so this is not a new or unique problem.

[tiger1962]

Which is what they have with their Azure servers.

 

Correct, but they don't allow access to Azure for free. There's going to be a cost involved somehow, to someone...

Edited October 8, 2019 by tiger1962

[loki]

Correct, but they don't allow access to Azure for free. There's going to be a cost involved somehow, to someone...

 

There certainly is going to be a cost involved and I'm sure they will be working it into the final price. On the other hand, the Flight Simulator series has a history of being a showcase for new technologies, and I could see some of the cost being shared with other areas or groups within Microsoft, like Bing Maps, Azure, AI and ML R&D etc. Not to mention potentually being subsidized by add-on sales through their store as well as Xbox Live Gold and Xbox Game Pass subscriptions. Lots of options for them to cover it.

[tiger1962]

Lots of options for them to cover it.

 

Yes indeed, and it'll be interesting to see if the Azure servers prevent or even cure the potential stuttering or buffering issue. If the cost is high, fewer people will use it and there won't be much of a problem - if it's a bargain, everyone will use it and complain about the stuttering or buffering issues! That's life. :p

[loki]

Yes indeed, and it'll be interesting to see if the Azure servers prevent or even cure the potential stuttering or buffering issue. If the cost is high, fewer people will use it and there won't be much of a problem - if it's a bargain, everyone will use it and complain about the stuttering or buffering issues! That's life. :p

 

I have a feeling server load won't be an issue, at least for most of the world. Speed and quality of each user's ISP and internet connection is much more likely to be an issue here, as well as distance from the nearest Azure server, in my opinion.

[tiger1962]

Speed and quality of each user's ISP and internet connection is much more likely to be an issue here

 

And I've just downgraded my connection for the next 18 months because I didn't need 100mbps!

We haven't actually noticed any difference now that we're on a 50mbps service, and we have up to 8 devices connected at once - or maybe we've just been lucky so far...

[stinger2k2]

Fortunately we only have 2 users of bandwidth in my household and I will be telling the other one that she can't use it when I'm simming.

 

[emoji16]

 

If she doesn't comply I'll have to give her a damn good listening to. Lol

 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[Markg55]

Bandwidth...Bandwidth.....Bandwidth.

One would imagine the new MFS would read ahead based on one's Airspeed, Altitude, Direction,Weather and Region. Perhaps a submitted Flight Plan would help the process. Monthly service charge is on the horizon no doubt IMHO. It is what they all do nowadays. Wait and see.

[JSMR]

Hi all,

 

Is it just me that thinks the last video released after the developers event looks as though it is stuttering? In particular look out of the left window of the C172.

 

I’ve noticed the stutters from just about ALL the videos. Right from the beginning. But not usuall when FSX users convinced themselves that low FPS would equal ‘smooth’.

 

Stutters and low FPS is the new norm.

[zswobbie1]

Maybe it's your system that's causing lags and stuttering, maybe it's because it's an Alpha version.

 

I have seen no stuttering at all. A friend of mine, about 5 city blocks away from me, with a far better PC than I have, is getting very mild stuttering.

So, remember as well, it's a video, not actual game play.

Edited October 30, 2019 by zswobbie1

[Skywatcher12]

I’ve noticed the stutters from just about ALL the videos. Right from the beginning. But not usuall when FSX users convinced themselves that low FPS would equal ‘smooth’.

 

Stutters and low FPS is the new norm.

 

Cannot think of a more community overated game in history.

I'll be sticking with FS9 because it kills the new MSFS!

My FS9 has performance, the clouds are not blurry, it has seasons, it has ATC, it has customizable AI, there's more, I'm just running off the top of my head...oh...my rainbows look less fake...oh...historic weather...oh...FS9 is fly away, no more to pay...lol

 

The things people will sacrifice to see their own house. I want a flight sim! Google can show me my house. haha

Edited October 30, 2019 by Skywatcher12

[collltip]

Early days,but the clouds are blurred on images released so far.

[andyjohnston]

Cannot think of a more community overated game in history.

I'll be sticking with FS9 because it kills the new MSFS!

My FS9 has performance, the clouds are not blurry, it has seasons, it has ATC, it has customizable AI, there's more, I'm just running off the top of my head...oh...my rainbows look less fake...oh...historic weather...oh...FS9 is fly away, no more to pay...lol

 

The things people will sacrifice to see their own house. I want a flight sim! Google can show me my house. haha

 

It's also 15 years out of date. Yes, you had historic aircraft, but they flew like cardboard boxes. The new one is about a lot more than pretty scenery, or at least such is the claim.

[Skywatcher12]

It's also 15 years out of date. Yes, you had historic aircraft, but they flew like cardboard boxes. The new one is about a lot more than pretty scenery, or at least such is the claim.

 

3 key words tell you everything. (Xbox/Modern Gaming)

 

The only thing we know about MSFS is the pretty pictures and the important sim features that have been stripped. Absolutely everything else is solely baseless community expectation. We know nothing about aircraft.

 

MSFS is totally traveling the modern game path, removing what we had for years in previous versions. Lots of hype, little substance.

 

This is the modern and cross platform game trend. You hype the new game like crazy, add some graphics, strip features and leave the bugs. It's the reason I play older games, they are simply fully featured and much better games. There has been nothing to indicate MSFS being any type of exception.

 

Right now, even the pretty pictures of this game show some of the problems with blurry clouds and popping scenery. Yes, it's only early development but you get a very good indication of what is coming and how it will likely perform on a lesser system if not across all systems.

Game play, we don't know about aircraft yet but we know you will likely fly them in a world with no seasons, no historic weather, no ATC and restricted AI. You won't be flying helicopters, they are also gone.

 

I'm all for a new version of FS but it's got to be an improvement over the past versions beyond some flashy graphics.

[Skywatcher12]

I'm pulling this quote from the other site. It's a good example of hype vs substance. This poster is starting to question it:

 

"So strange that MSFS2020 accurately models correct star locations and sun and moon positions depending on the seasons but does not model the weather or foliage on the terrain at all during the various seasons.... "

 

Ask yourself, from the above, have we lost or gained in the new MSFS?

You can do this with everything else as well. I'm just giving one example here.

 

I have a realistic star add-on for my FS9. My add-on even let's me set magnitude so I can display as many or as few stars as I wish to fully replicate light pollution.

If my sun and moon are in the wrong position, I really don't know anyway! I'm just a flight simmer. I don't track the orbits of the bodies in our solar system in relation to my aircraft position and time that often to be too concerned if things in the sky should be a little higher/lower/left or right.

I do know when I fly in my own country if the ground should be green or white though! lol

Edited November 3, 2019 by Skywatcher12

[zswobbie1]

Hi Mark,

 

As far as the stars & celestial body placement goes, there are quite a few simmers, especially the guys from http://calclassic.proboards.com/ & http://www.dc3airways.com who navigate the classical way, using a sextant!

 

So, yes, there are those that actually 'track'the sun, moon & stars in relation to their aircraft's position.

 

Based on the typical RAF Mk.IX variant, this gauge can be used with any FS2004 aircraft, enabling realistic celestial navigation within the simulation. Included are a comprehensive browser-based manual and other references.

 

As travel by air developed and matured, navigation over long distances also developed and improved. In the early days, however, air navigation essentially used ship navigation techniques adapted for aircraft. Without "landmarks", the navigators used Ded Reckoning (DR) and the stars. Celestial or Astronomical Navigation provides a means of obtaining Lines of Position (LOPs) from these stars. Crossing LOPs will fix a position. Celestial Navigation requires a chart, and a planned course on that chart, with waypoints specified by Latitude and Longitude, an assumed time of arrival at each waypoint, and stars (including the Sun, Moon, or planets) in view.

[bushp04]

Excellent remarks, Robin!

 

Len

KTUP

[Skywatcher12]

So, yes, there are those that actually 'track'the sun, moon & stars in relation to their aircraft's position.

 

Those 0.2% of MSFS users will think their dreams have come true. To the rest of us, isn't going to make much difference.

[zswobbie1]

Thanks, Len.

Yes, there are those that enjoy the immersion of simulating the 'older' flights, making the flight as realistic as possible for the bygone days, & there are those that just fly around, autopilot to the fore!

 

LOL, 0.2%? Well researched and accurate stats indeed.