torkermax Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 But where did Microsoft advertise the SDK before purchase? They didn't. This discussion is a non issue fabricated by assins. 99% of users could care less about an SDK or what it even does imo. CPU: I7 4790K @ 4.5 ghz, GPU and CPU water cooled GPU: Gigabyte GTX 970 MEM: Gskill Rippjaw 1866 17900 MB: Gigabyte Gaming 5 Z97X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 But where did Microsoft advertise the SDK before purchase? Right here: http://www.microsoft.com/Products/Games/FSInsider/product/features/Pages/default.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n4gix Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Since when did a Wikipedia page form part of a contract for sale? What would have been more useful would have been a Microsoft advertisement offering those features. How about an official Microsoft statement of requirements for SDK SP1a (emphasis mine)? This is the second update to the Software Development Kit (SDK) provided in the Deluxe version of Microsoft Flight Simulator X. This update completely replaces the original SDK as well as the first update, SDK SP1. http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=10027 There, now you have an unequivocal statement from Microsoft that the original, required SDK is provided in the Deluxe version of Microsoft Flight Simulator X. Hence the claim from DTG that they are providing the original and unadulterated version of FSX Deluxe and Acceleration (aka FSX Gold Edition) is specious at best, fradulent at worst. Bill Leaming http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Combat/0054.gif Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Military Visualizations Flightsim.com Panels & Gauges Forum Moderator Flightsim Rig: Intel Core i7-2600K - 8GB DDR3 1333 - EVGA GTX770 4GB - Win7 64bit Home Premium Development Rig1: Intel Core i7-3770k - 16GB DDR3 - Dual Radeon HD7770 SLI 1GB - Win7 64bit Professional Development Rig2: Intel Core i7-860 - 8GB DDR3 Corsair - GeForce GTS240 1GB - Win7 64bit Home Premium NOTE: Unless explicitly stated in the post, everything written by my hand is MY opinion. I do NOT speak for any company, real or imagined... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgh Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Right here: http://www.microsoft.com/Products/Games/FSInsider/product/features/Pages/default.aspx Then ask for DTG/Steam for your money back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n4gix Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 They didn't. This discussion is a non issue fabricated by assins. 99% of users could care less about an SDK or what it even does imo. While undoubtedly true that your hypothetical 99% could care less, it is of concern to those "new blood" who may wish to turn their hand to the task. They should not have to jump through additional hoops to discover and obtain the requisite tools. You may not be aware of this, but the majority of folks currently involved with producing content for FSX/P3D are grey-beards. To be blunt, we are old. A new generation of people need to be mentored... ;) Bill Leaming http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Combat/0054.gif Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Military Visualizations Flightsim.com Panels & Gauges Forum Moderator Flightsim Rig: Intel Core i7-2600K - 8GB DDR3 1333 - EVGA GTX770 4GB - Win7 64bit Home Premium Development Rig1: Intel Core i7-3770k - 16GB DDR3 - Dual Radeon HD7770 SLI 1GB - Win7 64bit Professional Development Rig2: Intel Core i7-860 - 8GB DDR3 Corsair - GeForce GTS240 1GB - Win7 64bit Home Premium NOTE: Unless explicitly stated in the post, everything written by my hand is MY opinion. I do NOT speak for any company, real or imagined... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n4gix Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Then ask for DTG/Steam for your money back. Quit being silly. It's not a question of money and you know it. It is a question of honesty, truth in advertising and integrity. Bill Leaming http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Combat/0054.gif Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Military Visualizations Flightsim.com Panels & Gauges Forum Moderator Flightsim Rig: Intel Core i7-2600K - 8GB DDR3 1333 - EVGA GTX770 4GB - Win7 64bit Home Premium Development Rig1: Intel Core i7-3770k - 16GB DDR3 - Dual Radeon HD7770 SLI 1GB - Win7 64bit Professional Development Rig2: Intel Core i7-860 - 8GB DDR3 Corsair - GeForce GTS240 1GB - Win7 64bit Home Premium NOTE: Unless explicitly stated in the post, everything written by my hand is MY opinion. I do NOT speak for any company, real or imagined... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgh Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 So want you do you want DTG to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringBean Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Yeah someone who really wanted to get into FS development has waited 8 years for the Steam Edition. So you are completely discounting the fact that there might be new users who want to do something as simple as update their home airport and cannot do it due to a lack of the SDK? How about this scenario? I bought FSX-Steam in the eventuality that some time in the future my disks go bad. Say I buy a new computer and my only option to install FSX is through Steam. This means that I will not have the option to also install the SDK so I can continue to customize the sim as I like. If DTG is, as advertised, taking over the distribution of FSX Gold then they need to make it a complete FSX Gold. WWOD---What Would Opa Do? Farewell, my freind (sp) Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f16jockey_2 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I bought FSX-Steam in the eventuality that some time in the future my disks go bad. So did I. And I saved my install disks (with the SDK installer) to a cloud as well. This means I'll be able to reinstall the SDK in the event of... , or not ? Pretty confused by this thread, as if the disk version of the SDK won't work with FSX- SE? Or is it a license issue? Wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 So did I. And I saved my install disks (with the SDK installer) to a cloud as well. This means I'll be able to reinstall the SDK in the event of... , or not ? Pretty confused by this thread, as if the disk version of the SDK won't work with FSX- SE? Or is it a license issue? Wim If you have the discs, you're fine. The problem will be for those who only have the Steam edition. There are work arounds, but they shouldn't be necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxsttcb Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 ...Pretty confused by this thread, as if the disk version of the SDK won't work with FSX- SE? Or is it a license issue? Wim A new to FSX simmer won't have the SDK, unless, they pay a nuts price for the boxed version too. Without the SDK, he/she won't have the opportunity to enjoy modding the sim. Not even something as simple as adding parking to accommodate AI...Don HAF 932 Adv, PC P&C 950w, ASUS R4E,i7-3820 5.0GHz(MCR320-XP 6 fans wet), GTX 970 FTW 16GB DDR3-2400, 128GB SAMSUNG 830(Win 7 Ult x64), 512GB SAMSUNG 840 Pro(FSX P3D FS9) WD 1TB Black(FS98, CFS2&3, ROF, etc.), WD 2TB Black-(Storage/Backup) Active Sky Next, Rex4 TD/Soft Clouds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Robinson Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 So if you downloaded FSX-SE and started playing it and then you packed up your PC and moved into a cabin in the mountains with no internet you'd be screwed if you ever decided you wanted to add a parking spot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrzippy Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 So if you downloaded FSX-SE and started playing it and then you packed up your PC and moved into a cabin in the mountains with no internet you'd be screwed if you ever decided you wanted to add a parking spot! Always get a cabin with a parking spot. If it snows there, a garage is nice too! So....after all is said and done, has anyone contacted the Steam people about the SDK? Still thinking about a new flightsim only computer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 So....after all is said and done, has anyone contacted the Steam people about the SDK? That's started the thread in the first place... ;) And it would be the Dovetail people, not Steam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mabe5454 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Does anyone here have a boxed Deluxe Edition that came without the SDK? Boxed Acceleration without the FSXA SDK? FSX Deluxe/FSXA are incomplete without the SDKs. That is the point in a nutshell...Don The answers to the two questions are simple: Different Adminitration (MS). And MS promised and delivered at that time. Now it's Dovetail's days and it looks like they never promised any SDK for it. So far, nothing broken. Nobody question the value of a SDK here. So that is not a point. Dovetail hasn't closed the door of a SDK either BTW. Logic and contracts are seldom hand in hand but guess which one almost always prevail. Sorry to say but 3rd Party Developers have 0 (zero) rights and a lot less privileges than regular customers. Let's not forget that developing something for somebody else platform is still a GAMBLE and a very risky one nonetheless. http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/you+can+catch+more+flies+with+honey+than+with+vinegar.html Quote: "This means that it is easier to persuade people if you use polite arguments and flattery than if you are confrontational." Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyd Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Don't know what you're all moaning about. Just either copy it over from FSX if you have it or D/L the P3D v1.4 if it's still there. Or perhaps buy the Gold Edition if you want to develop. ( $49.95 at FS PilotShop) well worth it I'd say. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Mickey D Team SDB Scenery Bloke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f16jockey_2 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Or perhaps by the Gold Edition if you want to develop. ( $49.95 at PilotShop) well worth it I'd say. FS PhotoShop that should be :cool: http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy176/buffalo2602/PilotShop_zpsd2c1a415.jpg Wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zswobbie1 Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 FSX: Gold is going for about $14.00 at http://www.kalahari.com, here in South Africa. I did post on another forum after some thoughts while driving to work yesterday.. Imagine this scenario... Dovetail has relessed FSX:SE without the SDK as a 'test' into a 'new' market, via Steam. Maybe targeting newbies that want something simple. They are releasing DLC's to make it easier as well. So, is not FSX:SE a semi closed sim, but with a bonus of having other payware & freeware add-ons available for those that know what to do? Maybe it's meant to be a plug 'n play game with DLC'd add-on only sim? And then there's the wait for Dovetail's own sim. This could be a closed sim with add-ons ONLY available via DLC's. Maybe..... Robin Cape Town, South Africa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvieno Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Scruffyduck at FSDeveloper finally got an answer and hopefully it'll set things straight. http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/index.php?posts/699480 I guess y'all are aware that the FSX Steam Edition as delivered by Dovetail Games does not include the Compilers. A number of us have been trying to get this resolved and today I received this reply from DTG in respect of this: I have now heard back for you regarding the SDKs. Microsoft remains the developer of FSX and is solely responsible for implementation of any features or content. Meanwhile, Dovetail Games is acting as a publisher for Microsoft and is only licenced to modify the simulator in order to make it Steam compatible. Although we have optimised FSX: Steam Edition for use on Steam, in accordance with our licencing agreement with Microsoft we are not at liberty to make significant functionality changes to the simulator. We know that the SDK is highly important to the FSX developer community and that the current situation regarding its use with FSX: Steam Edition has not been made clear. Implementation of the SDK currently falls outside of our agreement with Microsoft and therefore we have brought your enquiry to their attention so that we can best provide you with the information that you require. This has meant that we have been unable to address your enquiry as quickly as we would like. We are sorry for any frustration this may have caused. Microsoft has now issued us with clarification on this matter. FSX: Steam Edition does not include a developer SDK and the focus for this release is to provide players with a stable standalone simulator which utilises the advantages of the Steam platform. If you wish to use the SDK it remains available in the boxed edition of FSX and all functionality will continue to work as it did prior to the release of FSX: Steam Edition. There are no plans to introduce a SDK to the Steam edition at this time. It is not what we wanted to hear. However at least we know where we stand. It does mean that FSX:SE becomes effectively closed to those folks who do not have the boxed edition and I think that is a great shame. However, at the moment it is possible for anyone to download the P3D 1.4 SDK from Lockheed Martin. http://my.flightmemory.com/pic/tvieno.gifhttp://www.vatsimsigs.co.uk/Status/1136602.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zswobbie1 Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 Yup, as already posted in post #1. Robin Cape Town, South Africa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n4gix Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 So if you downloaded FSX-SE and started playing it and then you packed up your PC and moved into a cabin in the mountains with no internet you'd be screwed if you ever decided you wanted to add a parking spot! Under those circumstances Jim, you'd not even be able to run FSX at all, so the issue of adding a parking spot is moot. Bill Leaming http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Combat/0054.gif Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Military Visualizations Flightsim.com Panels & Gauges Forum Moderator Flightsim Rig: Intel Core i7-2600K - 8GB DDR3 1333 - EVGA GTX770 4GB - Win7 64bit Home Premium Development Rig1: Intel Core i7-3770k - 16GB DDR3 - Dual Radeon HD7770 SLI 1GB - Win7 64bit Professional Development Rig2: Intel Core i7-860 - 8GB DDR3 Corsair - GeForce GTS240 1GB - Win7 64bit Home Premium NOTE: Unless explicitly stated in the post, everything written by my hand is MY opinion. I do NOT speak for any company, real or imagined... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n4gix Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 So want you do you want DTG to do? Being truthfull would be a good start. Bill Leaming http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Combat/0054.gif Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Military Visualizations Flightsim.com Panels & Gauges Forum Moderator Flightsim Rig: Intel Core i7-2600K - 8GB DDR3 1333 - EVGA GTX770 4GB - Win7 64bit Home Premium Development Rig1: Intel Core i7-3770k - 16GB DDR3 - Dual Radeon HD7770 SLI 1GB - Win7 64bit Professional Development Rig2: Intel Core i7-860 - 8GB DDR3 Corsair - GeForce GTS240 1GB - Win7 64bit Home Premium NOTE: Unless explicitly stated in the post, everything written by my hand is MY opinion. I do NOT speak for any company, real or imagined... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvieno Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Well, it sort of makes sense from DTG's (Dovetail Games) perspective, they're in the business to make money. And how do you make money with FSX? By selling add-ons of course. If you don't package the tools for the end user to create his own add-ons, you essentially force the end user to buy add-ons, preferably those sold by DTG, of course. http://my.flightmemory.com/pic/tvieno.gifhttp://www.vatsimsigs.co.uk/Status/1136602.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Well, it sort of makes sense from DTG's (Dovetail Games) perspective, they're in the business to make money. And how do you make money with FSX? By selling add-ons of course. If you don't package the tools for the end user to create his own add-ons, you essentially force the end user to buy add-ons, preferably those sold by DTG, of course. So aren't we still talking about false advertising from Steam or someone? Being an old chopper guy I usually fly low and slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvieno Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 If it is false advertising, take them to court and force them to either supply the SDK or to clarify EXACTLY what is being sold. And we wonder why there are so many disclaimers and legalspeak on everything. http://my.flightmemory.com/pic/tvieno.gifhttp://www.vatsimsigs.co.uk/Status/1136602.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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