zswobbie1 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 For those interesed, from the Steam forum: http://steamcommunity.com/app/314160/discussions/1/611696927917689040/#p2 I quote: Microsoft remains the developer of FSX and is solely responsible for implementation of any features or content. Meanwhile, Dovetail Games is acting as a publisher for Microsoft and is only licenced to modify the simulator in order to make it Steam compatible. Although we have optimised FSX: Steam Edition for use on Steam, in accordance with our licencing agreement with Microsoft we are not at liberty to make significant functionality changes to the simulator. We know that the SDK is highly important to the FSX developer community and that the current situation regarding its use with FSX: Steam Edition has not been made clear. Implementation of the SDK currently falls outside of our agreement with Microsoft and therefore we have brought your enquiry to their attention so that we can best provide you with the information that you require. This has meant that we have been unable to address your enquiry as quickly as we would like. We are sorry for any frustration this may have caused. Microsoft has now issued us with clarification on this matter. FSX: Steam Edition does not include a developer SDK and the focus for this release is to provide players with a stable standalone simulator which utilises the advantages of the Steam platform. If you wish to use the SDK it remains available in the boxed edition of FSX and all functionality will continue to work as it did prior to the release of FSX: Steam Edition. There are no plans to introduce a SDK to the Steam edition at this time." --- This is quite a serious development (no pun intended) and it seems we have been mis-sold the product. Basically, those wishing to partake in the developer community (or even tweak a few items for our own requirements) will be unable to do so unless they already own the original boxed version. Robin Cape Town, South Africa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgh Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 ...we have been mis-sold the product. Where did DTG/Steam state that FSX-SE included the SDK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zswobbie1 Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 I just thought I'll put it out there.. (Is this actually important to us?) You ask..Where did DTG/Steam state that FSX-SE included the SDK? Not explicitly, but.. Taken from DTG's website: --- "...Dovetail Games has also acquired the rights to distribute the multi-award winning Microsoft Flight Simulator: Gold Edition via Valve's popular digital retail channel, Steam, entitled Microsoft Flight Simulator X: Steam Edition. Microsoft Flight Simulator X: Steam Edition includes the Deluxe Edition and the Acceleration Expansion Pack in one bundle. " --- The Deluxe Edition includes full SDK. This means, Microsoft Flight Simulator: Steam Edition DOES NOT include the Deluxe Edition, as it states, if it is missing the full SDK. This is, therefore, highly misleading (not legal in UK consumer law). At best it is a cut down version and should have been advertised as such. DTG should really be fighting our corner with this one and should be approaching Microsoft to aquire the rights to the full FSX SDK if it is, indeed, the Deluxe Edition that is included in the Steam Edition. &.. Originally posted by ScruffyDuck: This is taken from the Pinned post for existing FSX users: =================================== What changes have you made in FSX: Steam Edition from the Microsoft-supplied boxed version of FSX? This is a re-release of FSX Gold Edition so you should not expect dramatic differences. However, we have updated it to include all standard Steam functionality, we’ve removed CD checking and combined the components of Gold Edition into a single installation. =================================== FSX Gold ships with a working SDK. As far as I can tell a re-release of FSX Gold Edition is a re-release of the entire product. Jon ScruffyDuck Software Microsoft MVP Robin Cape Town, South Africa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgh Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 You ask..Where did DTG/Steam state that FSX-SE included the SDK? Not explicitly, but.. Exactly you bought FSX-SE - not FSX DeLuxe, Acceleration Pack or FSX Gold. DTG should really be fighting our corner with this one and should be approaching Microsoft to aquire the rights to the full FSX SDK if it is, indeed, the Deluxe Edition that is included in the Steam Edition. How do you lnow that it was DTG who decided not to include the SDK? Read the statement from the DTG site which is a classic of PR double-speak. That statemen treads "Implementation of the SDK currently falls outside of our agreement with Microsoft." On the same facts Microsoft could equally say "Implementation of the SDK currently falls outside of our agreement with DTG." If DTG really wanted the SDK included cthen it could offer to pay Microsoft to change it. Significantly DTG doesn't that suggest that. I suggest you misbought it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n4gix Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Buffalo Cookies! If you buy a carton of eggs that is clearly labled "1 dozen" and you only find 11 eggs in every carton in every store in their market area, would your laboured excuse for such a situation be valid? Bill Leaming http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Combat/0054.gif Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Military Visualizations Flightsim.com Panels & Gauges Forum Moderator Flightsim Rig: Intel Core i7-2600K - 8GB DDR3 1333 - EVGA GTX770 4GB - Win7 64bit Home Premium Development Rig1: Intel Core i7-3770k - 16GB DDR3 - Dual Radeon HD7770 SLI 1GB - Win7 64bit Professional Development Rig2: Intel Core i7-860 - 8GB DDR3 Corsair - GeForce GTS240 1GB - Win7 64bit Home Premium NOTE: Unless explicitly stated in the post, everything written by my hand is MY opinion. I do NOT speak for any company, real or imagined... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mallcott Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 So, you've replaced a dinosaur with a dodo. Both are long-dead and incapable of breeding. Having the DNA is ultimately pointless as the only developers likely to be attracted to the platform at this point in its decrepitude are precisely the kind that we DON'T WANT having access to a developer platform. The gestation of Steam is to squeeze the last micro-buck out of the aged platform, provide MS with additional profit with none of the aggravation. At no point did that ever intend to extend to no aggravation for the poor sap user who didn't look before opening wallet. Welcome to modern commerce. Just get over it. And if you can't get over it you're a hypocrite - you joined this forum in 2006. You have no right to flog this particular dead horse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Buffalo Cookies! If you buy a carton of eggs that is clearly labled "1 dozen" and you only find 11 eggs in every carton in every store in their market area, would your laboured excuse for such a situation be valid? Truth in advertising is always good! Being an old chopper guy I usually fly low and slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgh Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 What's it do with the number of eggs in a box? People bought FSX-SE, not FSX-Acceleration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmann Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 What's it do with the number of eggs in a box? People bought FSX-SE, not FSX-Acceleration. Except that Dovetail Games say (and I quote): "Microsoft Flight Simulator X: Steam Edition includes the Deluxe Edition and the Acceleration Expansion Pack in one bundle." Sounds like I would expect 12 eggs in that carton, not 11. Mike Mann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hurst Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Basically, those wishing to partake in the developer community (or even tweak a few items for our own requirements) will be unable to do so unless they already own the original boxed version. So maybe you can get your $5 back? Or download the free P3D 1.4 SDK. MarkH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Robinson Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Clearly it's MS that's dictated the SDK not be included. While I think that's a load of crap on MS' part I can't see where DTG is the evil villain because of it's absence. That said I'm not one of the unfortunates that got duped out of a whopping $5 bucks, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringBean Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 The issue really has nothing to do with the regular members here, it has to do with the future. For our community to grow we need new blood. If that comes from Steam then those folks need to have the tools from the SDK to develop content. Not everyone who buys FSX, Steam or boxed, visits these forums and knows how to deal with this issue. That does not mean that the next great addon developer might buy FSX-Steam, realize there are no tools available (and does not know about P3D) and decide to go build stuff for train Sim instead. To not include the tools is ridiculous and needs to be rectified. peace, the Bean WWOD---What Would Opa Do? Farewell, my freind (sp) Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stvn Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 For our community to grow we need new blood. If that comes from Steam then those folks need to have the tools from the SDK to develop content. That does not mean that the next great addon developer might buy FSX-Steam, realize there are no tools available (and does not know about P3D) and decide to go build stuff for train Sim instead. To not include the tools is ridiculous and needs to be rectified. +1. Couldn't have said it any better myself... :cool: On the other hand (and to play devil's advocate): maybe DTG is planning on adding the SDK in a future update? That said, it's hard to gauge or tell what's happening with DTG though, with this FSXSE... :rolleyes: All the yapping aside, I will say this about FSXSE: it's still the best 5 bucks I ever spent on a flight sim addon :cool: ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________ my flight simming system: Windows 10 CyberPower PC i5 6600k 3.5 gHz, Gigabyte NVidia GTX 970 graphics, with FSX, FSXSE and P3D all installed side-by-side on a Crucial 525 SSD. Dual monitors, with a Saitek X52 joystick w/ rudder pedals for controls. It's all powered by a Thermaltake TR2 Gold 700W power supply sitting in a Thermaltake Chaser MK-1 case. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudyjo Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Was the SDK given to Lockheed Martin for use in P3D ? I don't have P3D or know what to do with the SDK, so this may be a dumb question. Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Robinson Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 IMO the "poor budding FSX-SE developer left out in the cold without an SDK" scenario doesn't fly in 2015 when the entire galaxy is a google search away. We've established that there are alternatives. If your search skills are lacking to the degree that you haven't found fsdeveloper or stumbled across P3D by the time you're ready to develop something, the SDK will be of very little use to you anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgh Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Despite all wailing and gnashing of teeth in this forum at least one developer, First Class Simulations, is creating FSX-SE DLC with or without a SDK. Around the World in 80 Flights released on on 14 January 2015 which includes: 80 flight legs Over 400 hours flying time and 35,000 miles Over 112 countries are either visited or flown over The longest flight is nearly 3000 miles from Honolulu to San Francisco The shortest flight is 55 miles from Helsinki to Talinn, Estonia, crossing the Baltic The northernmost point of the trip is Sondre Stromfjord in Greenland whilst the southernmost point is Darwin, Australia for £12.99 Early Years of Flight released on 21 January 2015 which includes: Five aircraft Wright Flyer Bleriot XI Santos_Dumont 14_bis Goliescu Avioplan Handley Page E Three missions Additional scenery for £12.99 Discover Arabia Add-On released 28 January 2015 which includes: 1 Plane 6 Liveries 44 flight plans also for £12.99 http://store.steampo...com/app/314160/ Hmmmm.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Robinson Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Don't know about the 2nd two DLCs there but the Around the World in 80 Flights one has been around since the FS9 days and I'll bet my last buck that Electra is an FS9 native model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmann Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 IMO the "poor budding FSX-SE developer left out in the cold without an SDK" scenario doesn't fly in 2015 when the entire galaxy is a google search away. Unfortunately, it will also make them aware of the torrent versions of FSX which do have the full SDK as well as not having the "license authorization was unsuccessful" message. The license issue actually came up as the top search when I Googled "fsx license"! Mike Mann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mabe5454 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 "Microsoft Flight Simulator X: Steam Edition includes the Deluxe Edition and the Acceleration Expansion Pack in one bundle." And that is what they gave us. No SDK promise, no deception. Just like a contract, what is not included, is not part of it. Nothing more, nothing less. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxsttcb Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 And that is what they gave us. No SDK promise, no deception. Just like a contract, what is not included, is not part of it. Nothing more, nothing less. Cheers,Does anyone here have a boxed Deluxe Edition that came without the SDK? Boxed Acceleration without the FSXA SDK? FSX Deluxe/FSXA are incomplete without the SDKs. That is the point in a nutshell...Don HAF 932 Adv, PC P&C 950w, ASUS R4E,i7-3820 5.0GHz(MCR320-XP 6 fans wet), GTX 970 FTW 16GB DDR3-2400, 128GB SAMSUNG 830(Win 7 Ult x64), 512GB SAMSUNG 840 Pro(FSX P3D FS9) WD 1TB Black(FS98, CFS2&3, ROF, etc.), WD 2TB Black-(Storage/Backup) Active Sky Next, Rex4 TD/Soft Clouds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alaskancrab Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Yeah someone who really wanted to get into FS development has waited 8 years for the Steam Edition. Bottom line the Dassault software was probably non transferable, so they didn't bother. You can just as easily go to LM's site, and if need be grab the Dassault stuff from TurboSquid.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmann Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 And that is what they gave us. No, that is what they didn't give us. To quote Wikipedia: "The Deluxe Edition incorporates additional features, including an on-disc software development kit (SDK), three airplanes with the Garmin G1000 Flightdeck, and the ability for the player to act as Air Traffic Control (ATC) for other online users with a radar screen." Note the very first thing mentioned about how Deluxe Edition is different from Standard Edition, the SDK. Without the SDK you don't have the Deluxe Edition and to claim that you do is false or deceptive advertising. Mike Mann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgh Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 To quote Wikipedia: Since when did a Wikipedia page form part of a contract for sale? What would have been more useful would have been a Microsoft advertisement offering those features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmann Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Since when did a Wikipedia page form part of a contract for sale? It doesn't; I posted the Wikipedia entry for your benefit, seeing that you don't seem to realize that the SDK is an important part of the Deluxe Edition of FSX. Mike Mann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgh Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 But where did Microsoft advertise the SDK before purchase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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