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Thread: what vintage/classic aircraft are planned for FS2020 ?

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herc79 View Post
    When I started this thread, the situation for Vintage aircraft in MSFS2020 was looking pretty grim, however as I investigate further, I'm MUCH more hopeful! It seems that FS2020 is a big sales success, more than double the original prediction, and devs are keen on serving this market.

    Ok so a recap and significant update of the planned/announced vintage products:

    Available now:
    Nice list, thank you very much.
    May I add these two, by MScenery?:

    MIG 15: https://secure.simmarket.com/mscenery-mig-15-msfs.phtml

    MCDONNELL DOUGLAS FA-18C: https://secure.simmarket.com/mscener...18c-msfs.phtml

    I don't know how good they are, but to me they LOOK good. I see the MIG is better rated in Simmarket, so I might give it a try soon...

  2. #22

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    Nice one! Looks like it'd be a fun flyer! Not sure I'd want to fly continental very often in such an open cockpit, but it'd be an adventure, that's for certain! I hadn't heard about this one, thank you! See, for me a big part of the benefit of FS is as you put it, "interesting aircraft", which is a major reason for my interest in vintage aviation...

    At a certain point, glass cockpits are kinda... well, a little boring. When it comes to safety, glass cockpits are amazing and provide a HUGE amount of data in a relatively small cockpit dash. A couple years ago I went flying with a friend who built a Vans RV-10, and he used a Dynon avionics package, and since he was a beta tester for the company's new software, he had more advanced, more data, than his friends did flying Canadian Air Force Hornets and Westjet B-737-700s. It was truly amazing the data presented on his color touchscreen... collision hazards at whatever altitude we were at showed up in... pink maybe, and hazards higher were red or something, would be very very valuable for mountain flying, and especially for doing approches to landing in the mountains of BC, even moreso for go-arounds! Controlled Flight into Terrain is a very real hazard in hilly or mountainous terrain, a local politician died a couple years ago here for that very reason.

    BUT... for training purposes, to get used to losing some or all of your avionics, be it your radios, your GPS, a power outage, pito heat failure causing ice blockage and loss of airspeed data, an antenna loss... it's nice to learn and practice on aircraft that have fewer and less complex avionics. Make do with less, to learn how to do more when some or all is taken from you. Murphy's Law states that if something can go wrong, it will go wrong at the worst possible time. So learn how to make do with less... learn how to navigate with just a map and compass, and take all the Glass bells and whistles when you are actually doing flying in hazardous locations.

    In sim flying, it's nice to go back in time, when visibility and situational awareness was... limited at best! With anything aviation being so costly, it's amazing that we can virtually fly classic aircraft of the distant past, for less than what we pay at a fancy coffee shop in a month, having a little bit of that early aviation experience to get some idea of what that must have been like. Imagine my shock, when I suddenly realised on approach, that the PBY Catalina I was flying to a runway (it's an amphibian patrol flying boat) did not have flaps... I suddenly realised that my approach speed was possibly to fast to be guaranteed to stop before the end of the runway! So I did a go-around, and had to re-think everything, on the fly.

    It dawned on me that maybe what I had to do was used the whole wing, the pitch of the aircraft, as my "flaps"... that is, intentionally keep my airspeed low, say just 15-20 more knots than stall speed, so that I had a fair amount of angle of attack... while not ideal, it did give me enough slow speed lift for an easy approach and touchdown, and plenty of drag to allow for a short roll-out and margin for a steep approach if needed. Initially this all pissed me off, thought the guy who made the aircraft forgot to add flaps, but then I realised it wasn't his mistake, he correctly followed the design of the real plane. All his other planes had flaps! And then I grew to love it, a quirk that required a different way of flying, that brought the uniqueness to virtual flight, that I'd not have known about, not have experienced, not have learned the history of, of one of hte most iconic planes in history, if I'd not tried that freeware PBY made by Mike Stone!

    This is why vintage aviation appeals to me, while I also enjoy the glass cockpits, and the flying HAL9000 that is the DCS Hornet F/A-18C... (no, I'm not much good at the Hornet yet!)

  3. #23

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    Oh definately the old Mig-15 is a vintage classic!!

    To me, even the Mig-19 is a true vintage aircraft, and while in real life the 19 was a horrible deathtrap that Soviet pilots were probably happy to be rid of (one of the internal fuselage fuel tanks had a habbit of rupturing and catching fire from just flying about!!), those early jets were and are something amazing, pushing the limits of pilots and aerospace engineers...

    I've never had the opportunity to see a 15, but back in 2002 I visited China, at an Eastern coastal city. One morning I heard a loud jet engine (I mean LOUD!!), so I rushed out of bed to see it, but they were gone. 10 minutes later I heard them again, and this time my window blinds were all open... and I was shocked at the jets I saw... I didn't even know what type they were, so I had to remember details. Took quite some time to nail down the type, but it seems they were the Chinese-made version of the Soviet Mig-19, with very swept back wings, giant wing fences, twin afterburning engines! To my eyes they looked pre-historic, like a flying Dinosaur! Keep in mind by that time China had already had the J-10 canard fighter, and I think they had already fielded some SU-30's by that point... so seeing such an old jet was both thrilling and confusing!

    But then I had to keep in mind that despite being so old, the Lockheed T-33 Shooting Star is still seeing a little bit of use even today, Boeing seem to use one or more as chase-planes with cameras for test flights of their fighters and airliners, and I know the Canadian Air Force was using some for Electronic Warfare platforms for training exercises recently.

    (Just FYI, the Mig-15 and Mig-19, along with the F-86 Sabrejet are available in DCS as well if that holds any appeal!)

    Also, I just learned that there's a team making a KC-10 for FS2020, though I'm not sure they'll be making a civilian DC-10 alongside, I'd be surprised if they didn't do that. The KC-10 is a USAF air to air flying tanker and cargo plane (big side door on the main deck, just like Fed-Ex DC-10's and MD-10's. The MD-10 is a DC-10 that got cockpit modernisation upgrades to the old birds, and I think Fed-Ex converted all theirs to this standard).

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herc79 View Post
    Did you ever see this movie? Airport '79
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Co..._Airport_%2779
    Such a classic movie. Haven't seen in years... I wonder where I can stream it now?

  5. #25

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    Looks like the Beech 99 is also available and of older vintage too, on Simmarket:https://secure.simmarket.com/virtual...ies-msfs.phtml

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herc79 View Post
    At a certain point, glass cockpits are kinda... well, a little boring. When it comes to safety, glass cockpits are amazing and provide a HUGE amount of data in a relatively small cockpit dash.

    BUT... for training purposes, to get used to losing some or all of your avionics, be it your radios, your GPS, a power outage, pito heat failure causing ice blockage and loss of airspeed data, an antenna loss... it's nice to learn and practice on aircraft that have fewer and less complex avionics.
    Herc79, at the risk of going off-topic here I would like to share my real-life experience with glass vs steam-gauge cockpits. About 15 years ago, I did my PPL on a Tiger Moth. Perhaps 80% of it - had to do some time in a C172 for cross country & navigation etc. I absolutely loved the open-cockpit flying of the Tiger Moth but also enjoyed the longer legs and "comfort" of the C172 and eventually racked up about 200 flying hours in the two aircraft. Then life happened and my pilot license lapsed.

    About two years ago, I decided to revive my pilot's license and to spice it up by doing it on a modern LSA aircraft called a Sling 2. It is a beautiful little aircraft with an EFIS glass cockpit. Long story short, I absolutely hated the EFIS instruments. The information presented on it was so small and cluttered that my brain (and eyes) just couldn't process it properly. I spent 90% of the time trying to figure out what was going on there and 10% of the time flying the aircraft. In other words, it became a story of managing a system, rather than flying the plane. With the old "six-pack" it took my eyes/brain a 2-second glance to know exactly what the aircraft was doing. Eventually I found a way to switch the EFIS to a mode which presented the more familiar "six-pack" instruments.

    Bottom line is that I dislike glass cockpits with a passion and love steam gauges. With MSFS being a modern flight sim, Asobo is really pushing the glass-cockpit theme down our throats. Like you, I am longing for my comfort-zone of vintage aircraft with "proper" instruments where one can truly fly the aircraft rather than manage a system. But I do understand that there are people who like it the other way around and then there is also the new iPad generation who like to fly with a screen in front of them.
    Last edited by rooitou; 04-21-2021 at 04:52 AM.
    i7-7700K @ 4.8 GHz, ASUS Z270G Strix motherboard, GTX 1080ti 11GB, 16GB DDR4 3200MHz, ASUS PG348Q 34" 3440x1440 monitor, CH Products Fighterstick, Pro Throttle and Pro Pedals, Track IR 5, Oculus Rift S, Windows 10 64-bit

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by rooitou View Post
    Bottom line is that I dislike glass cockpits with a passion and love steam gauges. With MSFS being a modern flight sim, Asobo is really pushing the glass-cockpit theme down our throats. Like you, I am longing for my comfort-zone of vintage aircraft with "proper" instruments where one can truly fly the aircraft rather than manage a system. But I do understand that there are people who like it the other way around and then there is also the new iPad generation who like to fly with a screen in front of them.
    Completely agreed, word by word.
    In that respect, and at the risk of going off-topic too, have you seen yesterday's ANNOUNCEMENT here at the home page?
    It looks really promising, I'm sure I will give it a try as soon as it is available, and if it is half as good as everything Mathijs Kok is involved with, it might end being my primary sim activity soon.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by danbiosca View Post
    In that respect, and at the risk of going off-topic too, have you seen yesterday's ANNOUNCEMENT here at the home page?
    That looks excellent, I actually have that PZL-104 Wilga 35A tow-plane for FSX and rate it highly. Hopefully Aerosoft will bring World-of-Aircraft prices down to comparable MSFS peers and not stick to their high FSX/P3D price levels.
    i7-7700K @ 4.8 GHz, ASUS Z270G Strix motherboard, GTX 1080ti 11GB, 16GB DDR4 3200MHz, ASUS PG348Q 34" 3440x1440 monitor, CH Products Fighterstick, Pro Throttle and Pro Pedals, Track IR 5, Oculus Rift S, Windows 10 64-bit

  9. #29
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    A Britten-Norman BN-2 Islander is being developed by Blackbox Simulations: https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t...ulation/394104
    Tim Wright "The older I get, the better I was..."
    Gigabyte Aorus GA-Z270X-Gaming 7, Intel i5-7600k 3.80GHz OC'd 4.28GHz, NZXT X62 Kraken, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3000, 2x 2TB Samsung Hybrid SSD's, LG DVDRW, NVidia GTX1050Ti 4Gb, Phanteks Enthoo Pro M case, CH Yoke & Pedals, Dell P2815Q 28" 4k, Win 10 Pro x64

  10. #30

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    Freeware amphibious Beaver under construction:

    https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t...are/334222/160


    Also, a payware Pilatus PC-6 bush plane:

    https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t...payware/393681

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