If you want an idea of what VR is like then check out this video.

Did you complain about flight simulator on the c64?

 

No, because c64, F95, F98, etc, were the best flightsim around at the time, we did complain about other arcade atari games that some clowns pretended it to compare it MS Flightsim.

 

The problem with VR is that its one step behind the current technology.

So if the current sim today gives a graphic satisfaction, you accept nothing less.

When 4K is the standard, anything below is rejected, and so on.

 

Its not a freeware, you are selling and pushing a very expensive device that hasnt got the graphic quality that would improve the experience of a monitor.

Thats why so many reject it.

 

Its interesting to try, thats all

Edited July 26, 2020 by Kapitan

Its not up to Microsoft, it depends on hardware and VR technology is simply not there yet.

 

VR is an "entertainment" device and that is how its thought by Oculus or any manufacturer.

Its good for arcade and for a few minutes.

Ever since 2005 when good VR glasses came out the advertisement talk about high resolutions, and when you complain they say the resolution was "per eye" and by adding the too you get to 1920 something.

 

Today there are still no 1920x1080 per eye, there are models soon to be released.

At the highest resolution the lagging is unbearable

If you complain the manufacturers support tells you to lower the resolution. Then whats the point?

Even when they come out its impossible to deal with fatigue

I cant work on my computer monitor without using eye-saver, and when i Flysim i either choose short flights or long hauls where I can auto pilot on cruise and get away from the computer for a while.

 

Nobody can hold a VR for an extended period of minutes (just doing nothing watching the view) without feeling claustrophobic or tired. And if you do need to act like operating an fmc, gps, or overhead tasks that time in most people doesnt exceed two or three minutes.

 

You fail to see the difference between "entertainment" which is what VR is, and a simulation of a real work, job, which is all involved in flying an airplane.

 

Many people have bought VRs in the last 20 years.

They took it out of the box, tried it a few times, found the experience amazing, then put it away and not used it anymore.

 

VR is always a> "it will be great in future where it will be just like reality"

 

yes, its that kind of Blade Runner fantasy.

The fact is we are still not there.

 

No, because c64, F95, F98, etc, were the best flightsim around at the time, we did complain about other arcade atari games that some clowns pretended it to compare it MS Flightsim.

 

The problem with VR is that its one step behind the current technology.

So if the current sim today gives a graphic satisfaction, you accept nothing less.

When 4K is the standard, anything below is rejected, and so on.

 

Its not a freeware, you are selling and pushing a very expensive device that hasnt got the graphic quality that would improve the experience of a monitor.

Thats why so many reject it.

 

Its interesting to try, thats all

 

2d graphics on a flat monitor with tunnel vision might be standard for you but not for people who want more out of their simming.

I find it disheartening to see some people so vehemently against VR.

For every small problem there usually is a solution if you put your mind to it.

 

I have not got a VR headset yet, simply because I cannot afford on. Well that's not actually quite true, I could afford it if I saved as hard as I did to build my PC, but for the price they are I would sooner invest in a super wide screen monitor that will be useful outside of simming or games.

As soon as they are capable of pushing out 1440p video at reasonable frames rates at a more reasonable price I will be getting one.

 

The arguments that with VR you cant use a kneepad, or refer to documents I find to be a bit shallow.

Why not assign a simple button on you controller or mouse to a macro that opens up your documents or notepad in another window. A very simple macro would do that easily. No need to take the headset off, or fumble for bits of paper, just a simple click and it there. You could even have it set up so that it only displays while the button is clicked as soon as you released the button you are back in your sim. Would that be any different to removing you focus form a screen to a piece of paper on you desk?

 

Likewise with the tunnel vision argument. Simply assign you mouse wheel (or something on you hand controller) to zoom in or zoom out.

 

PC's and software settings are extremely adaptable and I dare say with the right tinkering of setting, macro's or additional hardware such as button boxes, VR might actually be a far more flexible and realistic way of flying in sims than it first might appear.

 

Many feature that we take for granted now in flight sims were not in there by design, but adapted or added by 3rd parties and enterprising users. TrackIR would be a good example. No doubt on it initial release it was though of a gimmick until people found ways to actually make it so useful that its now a must have for some simmers.

 

One little feature that I intend to dabble with myself that I know might not be included is a simple voice to text feature. Why bother scribbling frantically on a kneepad trying to remember what ATC has said in a hurry if every thing ATC says can be automatically written to a simple text file. A simply button click to open that text file in a window on screen would be a perfect little addon whether you choose to use VR or not. I have some ideas on how to implement this but until I get my hands on FS 2020 and my PC build completed, they are only ideas.

 

I am totally open to VR becoming more mainstream. But because its there does not mean it has to be used. Its all about choice, and surely having additional features or choices is something we should all be looking forward to even if it turns out we personally choose not to use them.

I find it disheartening to see some people so vehemently against VR.

Are you yet another incarnation of GhostTown? You seem to fail to understand that we are against VR FOR US, NOT for YOU! You are MORE THAN WELCOME to use VR to your heart's content with our blessing. Why won't you extend us the same courtesy?

 

The arguments that with VR you cant use a kneepad, or refer to documents I find to be a bit shallow.

Why not assign a simple button on you controller or mouse to a macro that opens up your documents or notepad in another window. A very simple macro would do that easily.

 

I find your lack of seeing a viewpoint other than your own to be rather shallow. Perhaps you can explain to me how I can do that with the paper charts in my bookcase? After all, they're not in "another window," and I DO use them. How can I do that with the paper approach plates in my bookcase? How can I do that with the flight map software that runs on my iPad? I do use these with the sim.

 

Once again, is it too difficult to understand that we know EXACTLY what we're missing by avoiding VR? Is it too difficult to understand that it does not yet meet OUR standards for adopting it for use? Is it too difficult to understand that we have no problem at all with you using VR if/when you wish to do so? Is it impossible for you to accord us the same courtesy?

 

There's room for all, but open up your minds. Quit being so closed minded!

efanton, I owe you an apology for coming on so strong. You do seem to have a much more reasonable tone than some other VR advocates here, and the final statement in your post, "Its all about choice, and surely having additional features or choices is something we should all be looking forward to even if it turns out we personally choose not to use them" is something that somehow I overlooked last night, and that I totally agree with.

 

So again, I'm sorry for the tone of my reply last night. I should have read and thought more carefully before posting.

I don't know how you guys do it, considering that most of you are flying with less equipment than me. I just set up my old fsx rig to get ready for msfs2020, but not sure I want to put the money into upgrading as the current specs only meets minimum/recommended settings...not until a VR version comes out. You can see it in these pics...I flew around for about 2 minutes and that was it. The view seems so inadequate coming from VR. I have not finished setting up my panels, gaming chair, rudder pedals, or have the (49" wide screen) monitor in the correct spot yet. Anyway I will plough through, but even with the amazing scenery of 2020 I know I will just be thinking about how much better it will be in VR.

 

AND NO I do not wish to use my trackIR. The whole point of having physical instrument panels like I have is to have freedom of head movement to look at charts etc without messing up the view.

 

Anyway I will give msfs2020 it a try...and continue to fly areofly and flyinside on my VR setup

 

 

 

I started with just a yoke, and progressed from there to where I am now. The most expensive part are the flight instrument panels (fips) which are about $150 a piece, but well worth it considering the cost getting other cockpit panels with gauges. They are just usb plug and play as well so simple to run. The actual cockpit shell was only $300 that houses them, and the saitek panels. My setup is probably the cheapest cockpit setup that can be put together, but imo the best bang for the buck.

You could always just use a monitor for the instruments instead of the fips and save a lot of money, but I prefer the tactile feel of turning knobs and pressing buttons instead of having to use the mouse.

 

So basically you could replicate my setup (including the monitor & gaming chair but not including the computer) for about 3k USD. OR you could spend $300 and get VR.

They don't deserve respect because they are the same people who probably trashed early sims...and then they trashed the virtual cockpit, and then they trashed trackIR. If simming was left to these kind of simmers nothing would ever advance because they would never attempt anything until it reaches mass adoption.

 

The true simmers keep an open mind and try everything. I have been simming since c64...I have don't monitor instrument panels, trackir, full, all kinds of hardware and instrument panels, and VR.

 

So some simmers don't deserve respect based on the assumption they 'PROBABLY' trashed early sims etc..a very wide statement - especially if it is in direct response to the last line in my post that you have quoted. If is in direct response to that last line then it is clearly aimed at those who have posted in this thread and the others you have started and clearly shows once again your general arrogant and disrespectful attitude towards fellow simmers.

 

Simming has and will always advance in new directions irrespective of 'these kind of simmers' as you put. In fact, it could be argued that such criticism has be the catalyst for the advancement of flight sims in general.

 

Clearly you are not a 'true simmer' because your mind is clearly not 'open'...Your approach has been to put forward your views and, when others have given a negative view/response to adopting VR or their views/experience of using VR does not agree/match your own view, you trash their response as if it is irrelevant or disrespectful. If that is being 'open minded' then I have clearly missed something...

I find it disheartening to see some people so vehemently against VR.

 

Hi Efanton.

I think you may be reading the comments differently than what they are intended. I do not see anyone being against it, they are just giving their opinion on what they know and consider important. Most are Real World pilots and interest more in flying than just having a superficial, not very useful to flying, experience.

 

 

I have not got a VR headset yet, simply because I cannot afford on. Well that's not actually quite true, I could afford it if I saved as hard as I did to build my PC, but for the price they are I would sooner invest in a super wide screen monitor that will be useful outside of simming or games.

As soon as they are capable of pushing out 1440p video at reasonable frames rates at a more reasonable price I will be getting one.

 

You seem to have a very superficial understanding of what VR is about. I will try to give you some real information that hopefully will benefit you in the future.

Most systems built within the last 2-3 years are more than capable of handling 1440, I have 2 systems that will handle 4K in FSX I get over 100FPS and XP11 in the 50s in Full screen and get 130FPS in a small window mode.

But that is Not sufficient for VR. My VR Pimax 8K is capable of 8864x7808 per eye at 80Hz, 200 Deg FOV. No system presently available, that I know of, can handle that, the spec is just a flash in the pants. I cannot read any of the text in the G1000 in the XP11 and or most of the test that may be necessary for a safe, complete, flight like the plates, ability to write down Clearances....

The only thing VR gives one is the ability to turn your head to see around you on the lateral axis / horizon, and limited view below you, and some perception of accelerated movement in particular on the vertical axis that can actually make some people ill.

All that I presented above, except for below you, which in most cases can be achieved in non VR by selecting an outside view, the Motion sickness, can very easily be done in Non VR by different means.

I use Ruddere pedals and Cyborg X as controllers in both VR and non VR.

I use Speech control and assign Left/Right View to my twist and or speech command Look Left, Right..

That give me access to ALL the views I need.

 

 

The arguments that with VR you cant use a kneepad, or refer to documents I find to be a bit shallow.

Why not assign a simple button on you controller or mouse to a macro that opens up your documents or notepad in another window. A very simple macro would do that easily.

 

That statement is, again, based on your superficial understanding of what VR is and what is Not.

There is No other window, and just reading a small text can be impossible. The only way you can get to additional information is to Move data into your VR screen. That does not just take a macro that requires a complete app that adds additional load to the system.....

If you can write a Macro to do it, post it here and I would be glad to test it.

 

 

 

Likewise with the tunnel vision argument. Simply assign you mouse wheel (or something on you hand controller) to zoom in or zoom out.

 

Again, your superficial understanding gets the best of you. Tunnel vision has nothing to to with the Zoom, it has to do with how wide your headset is capable of displaying. In mine 8K, I have 200 deg FOV, most only have in the 100 or some less, which give you the impression that you are looking through binoculars, you can zoom any way you want your FOV does Not change.

 

VR might actually be a far more flexible and realistic way of flying in sims than it first might appear.

And that is what we all hope for. BUT is nowhere close to being there. I do not post to contradict anyone, I just post facts based on having one 40 years of flying experience, electronic background, and trying to help others in aviation that tend listen to some people that are more into gaming and superficial sensations.

I am looking for something I can recommend to other pilots and students and I am NOT interested in the game portion of the simulators. If I recommend a sim to someone the first thing I tell them, Do Not Play with it. If you are not using it like you would if you are in an aft and your life depends on it, go read a book. Flying is a serious profession, that can be dangerous unless you take it seriously.

 

 

One little feature that I intend to dabble with myself that I know might not be included is a simple voice to text feature. Why bother scribbling frantically on a kneepad trying to remember what ATC has said in a hurry if every thing ATC says can be automatically written to a simple text file.

 

That exists now, I use in my PC and my tablets, and I've been involved in some form of artificial speech since 1980 when Texas Instruments was able to have an IC that spoke around, 128 words. That is just a start easy to say and a lot more difficult o implement. I've tried having Spoken checklists in both the sims and real aviation, and the sims, look back for SpeechBuddy2 that I was involved in, works fine, in a noisy environment, like a cockpit recognition is very difficult, next to impossible. But again if you make it let me know and I would be glad to test for you.

I am presently using Speech control in FSX and XPlane.

Again I am not posting to argue, I just want to present what I know it to be practical and real.

I know we are all open to see VR become useful, it just is Not there yet.

I don't know how you guys do it, considering that most of you are flying with less equipment than me. I just set up my old fsx rig to get ready for msfs2020, but not sure I want to put the money into upgrading as the current specs only meets minimum/recommended settings...not until a VR version comes out. You can see it in these pics...I flew around for about 2 minutes and that was it. The view seems so inadequate coming from VR. I have not finished setting up my panels, gaming chair, rudder pedals, or have the (49" wide screen) monitor in the correct spot yet. Anyway I will plough through, but even with the amazing scenery of 2020 I know I will just be thinking about how much better it will be in VR.

 

AND NO I do not wish to use my trackIR. The whole point of having physical instrument panels like I have is to have freedom of head movement to look at charts etc without messing up the view.

 

Anyway I will give msfs2020 it a try...and continue to fly areofly and flyinside on my VR setup

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]220405[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]220406[/ATTACH]

 

I started with just a yoke, and progressed from there to where I am now. The most expensive part are the flight instrument panels (fips) which are about $150 a piece, but well worth it considering the cost getting other cockpit panels with gauges. They are just usb plug and play as well so simple to run. The actual cockpit shell was only $300 that houses them, and the saitek panels. My setup is probably the cheapest cockpit setup that can be put together, but imo the best bang for the buck.

You could always just use a monitor for the instruments instead of the fips and save a lot of money, but I prefer the tactile feel of turning knobs and pressing buttons instead of having to use the mouse.

 

So basically you could replicate my setup (including the monitor & gaming chair but not including the computer) for about 3k USD. OR you could spend $300 and get VR.

 

Your setup is exactly what I am working towards, with exactly the same gauges and instruments.

 

Can I ask where you got the surround from?

 

I am looking for a similar surround that I can mount and dismount from my desk as and when I need it. Unfortunately I iwll not be in a potion to have a permanently mounted cockpit.

The one you are using is exactly the right size for this.

Hi Efanton.

I think you may be reading the comments differently than what they are intended. I do not see anyone being against it, they are just giving their opinion on what they know and consider important. Most are Real World pilots and interest more in flying than just having a superficial, not very useful to flying, experience.

 

 

 

 

You seem to have a very superficial understanding of what VR is about. I will try to give you some real information that hopefully will benefit you in the future.

Most systems built within the last 2-3 years are more than capable of handling 1440, I have 2 systems that will handle 4K in FSX I get over 100FPS and XP11 in the 50s in Full screen and get 130FPS in a small window mode.

But that is Not sufficient for VR. My VR Pimax 8K is capable of 8864x7808 per eye at 80Hz, 200 Deg FOV. No system presently available, that I know of, can handle that, the spec is just a flash in the pants. I cannot read any of the text in the G1000 in the XP11 and or most of the test that may be necessary for a safe, complete, flight like the plates, ability to write down Clearances....

The only thing VR gives one is the ability to turn your head to see around you on the lateral axis / horizon, and limited view below you, and some perception of accelerated movement in particular on the vertical axis that can actually make some people ill.

All that I presented above, except for below you, which in most cases can be achieved in non VR by selecting an outside view, the Motion sickness, can very easily be done in Non VR by different means.

I use Ruddere pedals and Cyborg X as controllers in both VR and non VR.

I use Speech control and assign Left/Right View to my twist and or speech command Look Left, Right..

That give me access to ALL the views I need.

 

 

 

 

That statement is, again, based on your superficial understanding of what VR is and what is Not.

There is No other window, and just reading a small text can be impossible. The only way you can get to additional information is to Move data into your VR screen. That does not just take a macro that requires a complete app that adds additional load to the system.....

If you can write a Macro to do it, post it here and I would be glad to test it.

 

 

 

 

 

Again, your superficial understanding gets the best of you. Tunnel vision has nothing to to with the Zoom, it has to do with how wide your headset is capable of displaying. In mine 8K, I have 200 deg FOV, most only have in the 100 or some less, which give you the impression that you are looking through binoculars, you can zoom any way you want your FOV does Not change.

 

 

And that is what we all hope for. BUT is nowhere close to being there. I do not post to contradict anyone, I just post facts based on having one 40 years of flying experience, electronic background, and trying to help others in aviation that tend listen to some people that are more into gaming and superficial sensations.

I am looking for something I can recommend to other pilots and students and I am NOT interested in the game portion of the simulators. If I recommend a sim to someone the first thing I tell them, Do Not Play with it. If you are not using it like you would if you are in an aft and your life depends on it, go read a book. Flying is a serious profession, that can be dangerous unless you take it seriously.

 

 

 

 

That exists now, I use in my PC and my tablets, and I've been involved in some form of artificial speech since 1980 when Texas Instruments was able to have an IC that spoke around, 128 words. That is just a start easy to say and a lot more difficult o implement. I've tried having Spoken checklists in both the sims and real aviation, and the sims, look back for SpeechBuddy2 that I was involved in, works fine, in a noisy environment, like a cockpit recognition is very difficult, next to impossible. But again if you make it let me know and I would be glad to test for you.

I am presently using Speech control in FSX and XPlane.

Again I am not posting to argue, I just want to present what I know it to be practical and real.

I know we are all open to see VR become useful, it just is Not there yet.

 

 

You say VR is not there yet? Have you even tried Aerofly fs2 in VR with the orbx scenery packs? I can't even fly fsx anymore.

 

 

VR (if not already) will be the best way to flight sim. It is already hands down the best for gaming by far. As some point in the near future, VR will have hand-tracking. They will constantly improve on the headsets. They will have Virtual tablets for approach plates...just like in the real world pilots have tablets. There will be nothing you can do with a cockpit build that you cannot do better in VR. I have a great homebuild...probably better than most, but I have to acknowledge VR as being the better option moving forward.

Are you yet another incarnation of GhostTown? You seem to fail to understand that we are against VR FOR US, NOT for YOU! You are MORE THAN WELCOME to use VR to your heart's content with our blessing. Why won't you extend us the same courtesy?

 

 

 

I find your lack of seeing a viewpoint other than your own to be rather shallow. Perhaps you can explain to me how I can do that with the paper charts in my bookcase? After all, they're not in "another window," and I DO use them. How can I do that with the paper approach plates in my bookcase? How can I do that with the flight map software that runs on my iPad? I do use these with the sim.

 

Once again, is it too difficult to understand that we know EXACTLY what we're missing by avoiding VR? Is it too difficult to understand that it does not yet meet OUR standards for adopting it for use? Is it too difficult to understand that we have no problem at all with you using VR if/when you wish to do so? Is it impossible for you to accord us the same courtesy?

 

There's room for all, but open up your minds. Quit being so closed minded!

 

 

I am not the one being close minded.

Where did I state that VR is a must?

In fact I made it pretty clear in my last paragraph that we should be encouraging any and all additional features, even though we might CHOOSE not use them.

 

You argued a point, without understanding what you are talking about, and then actually have the audacity to accuse someone else of the very same thing.

 

Let me simplify things for you.

 

FS 2020 runs in windows. Windows allows multiple windows to be open at the same time.

Although FS 2020 does not permit additional windows to be displayed on top of your screen view there is nothing to stop you from pressing ALT +TAB while in FS 2020 to temporarily switch to another window and then switching back again. This is a bit cumbersome but there is a way round it by using 'virual windows'.

 

You could create 'virtual windows' so that a simply press of Windows+1 and Windows +2 would allow you to switch quickly between views. These two commands could easily be assigning to buttons on a controller.

 

All you need to do then is before your flight is open up the digital versions of the documents you will need to refer to in you flight and assign that view to a virtual window.

When you are flying you simply switch to that virtual window with a button click to view those documents, and switch back again to your sim view with another button click.

 

More here

https://www.howtogeek.com/198122/32-new-keyboard-shortcuts-in-the-windows-10-technical-preview/#:~:text=Pressing%20Alt%2BTab%20lets%20you,to%20select%20the%20current%20window.

 

https://www.howtogeek.com/197625/how-to-use-virtual-desktops-in-windows-10/

 

 

So by simply creating a virtual window for you reference material, assigning two buttons to switch to and from that virtual window you can indeed do everything you do now in a 3D environment literally at the click of a button.

 

With regards FOV, can you not zoom in and out while using ordinary screens?

Why would the same functionality not be available for those using 3D?

I am not the one being close minded.

Where did I state that VR is a must?

In fact I made it pretty clear in my last paragraph that we should be encouraging any and all additional features, even though we might CHOOSE not use them.

 

Did you not read my post immediately following the one you quoted? The one where I said: "I should have read and thought more carefully before posting. "

 

Yes, I wasn't thinking it through, I posted when I was tired and in a bad frame of mind, and I found myself wishing I could delete that post, but that wasn't available to me.

 

But there is one thing in that post for which I don't apologize, where I said that I use paper and an iPad, which cannot be put in a virtual window. Also note that I don't use FS2020, and probably won't for quite some time, since my machine is Windows 7 and I'm unlikely to change to Win 10 any time soon.

 

Still, I do regret that post over all; I know I was out of line and I wish I'd never posted it.

"FS 2020 runs in windows. Windows allows multiple windows to be open at the same time." That also works with P3d, FSX, etc.

 

Being a previous RW pilot I learned long ago to also look out my side windows, as some people also do while driving an automobile.

 

To get that same effect while "flying" my sim I use three separate screens. Center screen straight ahead, both left and right screens with views abutting the center screen. NOW THAT LOOKS LIKE FLYING IN MOST COCKPITS! That setup also allows me to RW look at my AP panel, radio panel, throttle panel, gauges etc., again as if in a cockpit.

 

Rather than use a huge screen or VR, I use three (3) identical 21" flat screens abutting each other. When you look out of a RW windshield, in most cases there are seams where the windshield and side windows abut. For each different AC cockpit I save the three view setup and that is the appearance I get. So if I want to fly a Bonanza I just activate my Saved Bonanza Flight, then change airports, time, and weather as I desire.

 

And yes, I bought three pretty nice 21" monitors for less than I'd have to pay for one of those oversized curved ones!

 

I suggest anyone who wonders about that concept, try using another monitor or Hi-Def TV and see how that works for you.

 

I've enjoyed it for years!

 

Michael

"FS 2020 runs in windows. Windows allows multiple windows to be open at the same time." That also works with P3d, FSX, etc.

 

Being a previous RW pilot I learned long ago to also look out my side windows, as some people also do while driving an automobile.

 

To get that same effect while "flying" my sim I use three separate screens. Center screen straight ahead, both left and right screens with views abutting the center screen. NOW THAT LOOKS LIKE FLYING IN MOST COCKPITS! That setup also allows me to RW look at my AP panel, radio panel, throttle panel, gauges etc., again as if in a cockpit.

 

Rather than use a huge screen or VR, I use three (3) identical 21" flat screens abutting each other. When you look out of a RW windshield, in most cases there are seams where the windshield and side windows abut. For each different AC cockpit I save the three view setup and that is the appearance I get. So if I want to fly a Bonanza I just activate my Saved Bonanza Flight, then change airports, time, and weather as I desire.

 

And yes, I bought three pretty nice 21" monitors for less than I'd have to pay for one of those oversized curved ones!

 

I suggest anyone who wonders about that concept, try using another monitor or Hi-Def TV and see how that works for you.

 

I've enjoyed it for years!

 

Michael

 

Three monitors is is the ideal set up, but not possible for a lot of people such as myself.

 

What if you do not have the space to setup 3 different screens?

 

What if you do not have a high end graphics card that will give reasonable frame rates to three different monitors?

Not everyone can afford a high end graphics card. but they could run a single widescreen or a VR headset on a far lower spec card.

 

I was hoping to do exactly what you have done but even if I used the smallest monitors I could find I am about 8 inches short of space. I will just have to settle for a single 34 inch curved monitor.

I could potentially push that to a 43 inch curved monitor but I would have to put a permanent door stopper screwed to the floor to prevent the door opening more than half way to prevent it smashing into the monitor. I am going to have to settle for the 34 in monitor until such time as VR becomes affordable and the sims I use have the level of support required to make it worth the effort and expense.

Whomever criticized VR so venomously: Seriously guys, did you actually try it? I fly X-Plane 11.50 with Oculus Rift S and a simple DIY rig consisting of a yoke on a DIY pedestal, pedals and a chair with bass transducers. First time I tried it in VR was a overwhelming "WOW!" - it does not compare to anything you can do at home, up to a full cabin simulator. You feel you are there, you have full depth perception, 360 visuals, and on Rift S I can read all instrumentation in a 737. And I actually interact with all switches and buttons, I can feel autopilot and nav encoders clicking when I grab and rotate them (I have controller in my right hand and use left for the yoke).

 

Resolution is not yet ideal, but it's not bad at all even on Rift S (1280×1440 per eye), and upcoming HP Reverb G2 (2160x2160 per eye, a 4K quality) will be much better. Any YouTube video recording of VR doesn't show full resolution, because it's a crop and resize and looks bad, nothing like real VR. Again, I can read and operate all instruments and switches n the 737. I do have to lean just a bit to see all FMC letters or GPS details on general aircraft properly but not much. Almost everything else is clear enough to read well without leaning.

 

Cessna is easy. Just the depth perception and "real sizeness" of it are worth it. Landings are so much more real with it. But really, everything is a whole level of magnitude better in VR. I won't buy MSFS2020 until they have VR support, no matter how amazing graphics is (and it really is, blows my mind) - it cannot compare with VR. Any other game too BTW. Flat-screen gaming is dead for me. That's what VR does. So, don't mind the YouTube recording quality, it's always bad and not representative of VR experience. Just try it. But beware - you may be hooked for life.

common sense tells me that you should use curved 2 monitors upfront, not necessarily too big, 27-32 inch is enough, plus 2 flat smaller monitors on the side. And once the monitors are in your posession you cut the cockpit frame around them

Greetings ftytv1. From reading your post I hope you understand it is all make believe, using VR or on a flat panel monitor. It is a simulation, not real life. We all are pretending to be real pilots flying in real aircraft in real life. But we are not! It's all make believe. That's what makes it fun and exciting! I have a complete full size 737NG cockpit with every single switch, knob, gauge and display working with a multi-monitor setup for the outside view. I only have the outside view on the multi-monitor setup, no 3D cockpit and it works great. I have Track IR which I don't use anymore as it moves too rapidly for me and makes me nauseous. I also have an Oculus Rift S VR headset I will use sometimes for other aircraft in a different setup with either a combat stick and throttle for air combat simulators or a Honeycomb yoke and 2 logitech throttle quadrants for light aircraft. When I first tried VR I was blown away at how it looks. I try to reach out and touch things, that is how good it looks. Sure there are some drawbacks but there are drawbacks in everything in life. I'm still blown away when I use it. For me, it makes it way easier to line up with the runway and land properly. Maybe not you, but that's ok. I don't care how you fly as long as you enjoy it, VR or not. For those who have not tried VR, maybe you should go to a friends house who has one and give it a try. If you don't like it that's ok, but who knows, you might. It's not for everybody. Different strokes for different folks as the saying goes. Don't worry, it won't hurt my feelings if you don't like it. I read GhostTown's 1st post also and I think everybody is ganging up on him for no good reason. All he was originally asking for was a dedicated VR forum and that is not unreasonable. And your immediate post attacked him so he got defensive, which made you defensive. So can we stop this please? It's like being with a bunch of 1st graders trying to prove "mine is better, no your wrong mine is better". Further posts from GhostTown seems to me to try and promote VR in flight simulation just as Flightsim.com promotes products via advertisements and reviews. The bottom line is if you like VR then good for you. If you don't like VR then good for you. To each their own and I can respect that. But please stop bullying him and maybe take a serious look into his request for a dedicated VR forum for FS2020 and let's stop the hate.

....pressing ALT +TAB while in FS 2020 to temporarily switch to another window and then switching back again. This is a bit cumbersome but there is a way round it by using 'virual windows'.

 

Hi Efanton.

I strongly suggest that you get a VR, and learn about how it works before you post miss information. VR works in a different layer and in some cases there is more than 1. The acft that you see in non VR does not look the same as in VR there is lot of code that links Windows to your VR and UI. XPlane11 group wrote their own and other games use something else.

Your Alt+Tab will not work.

As I stated before you need to move it in, there are ways to do that, but not with a Macro and or Alt+Tab.

If you get informed and learn how it works you will find out many things that make VR Not very practical.

Hello GhostTown. Have you not heard of Flyinside and Leapmotion? These apps already do that.

Hi GhostTown, I apologize. I didn't mean to sound presumptuous about you not knowing about Flyinside and LeapMotion. I have these with my Oculus Rift S. It seems to me to be the most realistic flight simulator experience if you set up your controls on you hardware just right. You Have to have Flyinside to get the Leapmotion to work but when you get it to work, it is fantastic. You don't need the Oculus handsets. After you install the LeapMotion onto your you VR headset and installed the software, just move your run the software and look at your virtual hands. You can will flip switches, turn knobs, push buttons, ect.

Hi Kevin,

I am working on an idea to to take my wife on a virtual flight in an open cockpit flight in a 2-seater biplane like a WACO or Stearman. My thoughts are this would be cheaper than renting the Stearman for an hour and go for a flight. After that what do you have (one flight). With the Occulist Rift VR's and XPlane 11 system, this would seem like a better idea. Thoughts, Comments, any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks