Analog and Glass - Too much of the second

It strikes as a reality that 80% or more of all GA aircraft you see around the world kn airfields and small airports have analog cockpits.

Except perhaps in the US which sells new small

planes more than others.

 

In commercial aviation all OK, the standard today is Glass

 

I wished MSFS2020 could have included more analog cockpits of GA,

even the Cesna 172 now comes all Glass

Thats not real.

Out of all 172s flying around the world i bet 99.9% are analog!

I have to say I agree with you. Analogue gauges look much more realistic, especially in GA aircraft.

I guess due to the "Next Generation" nature of the simulator, more modern aircraft are modeled. Was surprised they included the 747 myself considering it is being retired pretty much except for cargo.

 

Certainly will be plenty of quality aftermarket analog aircraft though.

 

Thought there would be a GA electric airplane but no dice.

If you want to learn to fly for real, you'll find yourself in an analog cockpit for sure.

But is that what a new flight simmer would buy into? Driving sims aren't full of the average driving school cars, they have a mouthwatering selection of the world's finest supercars and thoroughbred racers. Why should a truly modern flight sim be any different? I'm fed up with payware planes out of an air museum with antique avionics which don't even have as much functionality as the default C172's avionics. That's not what I call value for money and I don't care if it is a Spitfire.

Edited July 24, 2020 by tiger1962

Both are nice and I would like to have a choice with the older planes.

Add one version with old fashioned gauges and one with a modern glass cockpit.

 

I wonder how easy it will be to modify the panel and gauges.

If you want to learn to fly for real, you'll find yourself in an analog cockpit for sure.

But is that what a new flight simmer would buy into? Driving sims aren't full of the average driving school cars, they have a mouthwatering selection of the world's finest supercars and thoroughbred racers. Why should a truly modern flight sim be any different? I'm fed up with payware planes out of an air museum with antique avionics which don't even have as much functionality as the default C172's avionics. That's not what I call value for money and I don't care if it is a Spitfire.

 

i disagree.

a) You dont realize the motive that drive people into the sim. Its a sim. And by this it means "simulate what no longer exists", there are those would be pilots that want a career, but most people want to recreate the golden years of travel, when flying really WAS a top class thing, i myself sim to remember my dad and recreate commmercial routes in his 727 707 or 747-200 carreer span.

 

b) as you said: "a selection of both", my post was to point out they are all glass except one. Thats not a fair selection to compare it with reality

 

most new cars are also glass cockpit like the Tesla. But we know the vast majority isnt

Edited July 24, 2020 by Kapitan

There is indeed room for both but for the last decade or more, payware developers seem to have become fixated on the bygone era and the more obscure the better.

There are new and innovative civil aviation aircraft and avionics being type approved every year, from all over the world.

Let's experience the advances which are still being made in aviation in our flight sim and look forwards, as the aviation industry has always done.

does anyone know of a computer/console "game" that has a majority of users who are over 50 years old? challenge you, none. Only the flightsim community.

 

Having said that, what do you think "an old guy" sits in front of a computer for?

fly glass cockpits? of course not! he/she sims to remeber the ol days.

 

Making a glass cockpit is easier and simple than an analog. Cause with analog you have to recreate the worn and many plugs of a classic cockpit, walls, panel etc.

 

With the glass much of the space will be covered by the mfds so it saves art work there, plus the mfd is a ready made gauge by some third party, you just have to insert it in place. Much easier.

i disagree.

a) You dont realize the motive that drive people into the sim. Its a sim. And by this it means "simulate what no longer exists", there are those would be pilots that want a career, but most people want to recreate the golden years of travel, when flying really WAS a top class thing, i myself sim to remember my dad and recreate commmercial routes in his 727 707 or 747-200 carreer span.

Are you sure about that?

I agree most strongly with those who prefer flying a computer simulation of an airplane rather than a computer simulation of a computer.

does anyone know of a computer/console "game" that has a majority of users who are over 50 years old? challenge you, none. Only the flightsim community.

 

That's because flight sim has been restricted to PC and most of the add on aircraft have been created by and for the over 50's.

Flight sim will now be available on console as well as Windows 10 tablet, smartphone and PC.

That's a whole new age group so most of the aircraft and avionics had better be new as well.

If MSFS turns out to be an exercise of watching a flat screen on another flat screen I don't think I'll be very interested. Have we lost sight of the idea of simulating *flight*?

 

The idea that the young would never be interested in piston engines and analog gauges is a generalization that underestimates an entire generation. I would hate to think of that generation being led to believe that flying is about programming your onboard computer and then watching the results on yet another screen.

 

Anyone who has flown or even been a passenger in a small and simple aircraft knows that flying is far more exciting than that.

This isn't an "either/or" discussion - there most definitely is room for both analog and glass cockpits - but there has been a bias towards classic and vintage aircraft with analog cockpits which surely needs to change?

That's the reasonable explanation of why most of the default aircraft in MSFS have glass cockpits.

Edited July 24, 2020 by tiger1962

you have quite a few analogue aircraft. The C152 for a start.

This isn't an "either/or" discussion - there most definitely is room for both analog and glass cockpits - but there has been a bias towards classic and vintage aircraft with analog cockpits which surely needs to change?

That's the reasonable explanation of why most of the default aircraft in MSFS have glass cockpits.

 

You're right of course. It isn't an "either/or" issue.

 

What I'm suggesting is that it could be. It might benefit both preference groups if there were one simulation program devoted exclusively to, say, pre-1960 aircraft, systems, navigation and scenery and another for those who prefer the modern approach with large airliners with FMS features and sprawling modern airports.

 

There are, as you know, thousands of pages in the forums for ALL simulators that complain of compatibility problems for this addon or that one. I wonder how many of these issues may be the result of trying to wedge one kind of flight simulation experience into a program that was designed to simulate an entirely different sort of aviation.

 

Flying a 747 across the Atlantic in the present era has very little in common with ADF navigation and landing a D18 in a 20 knot crosswind. Neither has more intrinsic value than the other (although I admit to a strong preference for the latter) yet clearly a different set of skills (and interests) are required for either.

 

I wonder how much code could be simplified resulting in better performance for both groups if there were no attempt to accommodate these two dissimilar types of flying in one program. Human progress has, to some extent been fostered by greater specialization. I wonder if the same principle may not apply to our hobby.

Edited July 24, 2020 by billythebassman

There are, as you know, thousands of pages in the forums for ALL simulators that complain of compatibility problems for this addon or that one. I wonder how many of these issues may be the result of trying to wedge one kind of flight simulation experience into a program that was designed to simulate an entirely different sort of aviation.

 

I think this has far more to do with the architectural design of previous sims, rather than trying to simulate all types of flying. With FSX/P3D and prior, everyone had access to every file in the sim, and often took advantage of it. This lead to many of the issues and conflicts you mention as each developer could potentially be trying to edit or replace the same files. In MSFS, however, Asobo look to be building a more structured framework, or sandbox, for each add-on with their WebAssembly based system. Part of this is driven by the requirements of Windows Store and Xbox apps whereby the core application files are more tightly locked down. Although, the exact details of how all of this actually works are still pretty thin, at least publicly.

 

There are more specialized sims though, like the many military ones, and others such as Deadstick Bush Flight Simulator.

I agree most strongly with those who prefer flying a computer simulation of an airplane rather than a computer simulation of a computer.

 

best post here!!!

Are you sure about that?

 

Yeah, that is a pretty narrow and personal view of flight simulation. Flight simulators like FSX have always been about simulating whatever type of flying the simmer wants, whether it be historical or regional airliners, GA planes, business jets, bush flying, helicopters or something in between.

I remember the first time I encountered the old style autopilot in FS9 (I think) when flying a 707 or 727. Oh and no autothrottle. However after the initial daunting prospect I actually enjoyed the challenge and the satisfaction of successfully completing a flight without keying in a few settings or FMC flight plan.

And this was with an add on 707 or 727, after you'd mastered the default 737 and it's avionics.

Everyone has to start somewhere, and if you want to attract everyone to the new sim the best way to do it is with the latest avionics.

I even dream of airports specific for each era, with tarmac stairs and people boarding on foot instead of jetways, ai traffic of those days. California Classics tried it but being a freeware planes looked sluggish

Its a sim. And by this it means "simulate what no longer exists"

Tell United and other airlines, not to mention Flight Safety and other operations, that their simulators are for "what no longer exists."

 

Simulate means to imitate, but it's not specific for "what no longer exists," rather it covers a very broad range of things, old or new or fanciful.

As a real world pilot I feel one should definitely learn on an aircraft with the analog gauges. On the other hand, there are flight schools where only glass panel a/c (Diamond DA40) are used. This is great for those who move on directly to the commercial route and that makes sense. However, for the majority of GA pilots, a good majority will never sit behind a glass panel - and for this reason alone FS2020 should definitely keep a good balance between analog and digital displays. I think with time as the developers feel out FS2020, we will eventually see more of our lovely classic aircraft return to the skies in FS2020.

Are you sure about that?

 

Absolutely

someone here mentioned Air Safety and accident investigations. Another perfect example.

You recreate a flight, to remember what happened and understand the accident and events.

All about that.

 

Went to Bali or Katmandou with your girlfriend last year and made an air tour...

Suddenly you feel atracted to flightsim because of that flight

Most people land at the flightsim with some memorable flight in memory

And this was with an add on 707 or 727, after you'd mastered the default 737 and it's avionics.

Everyone has to start somewhere, and if you want to attract everyone to the new sim the best way to do it is with the latest avionics.

 

Think the 707 was the Captain Sim, not sure about the 727.

 

Didn't spend much time in the default jets but you are correct Tim, cut my teeth on the freeware and payware stuff with avionics and AP etc. to modern standards.