Old Tutorial - How To Stay Aligned With The Runway On Approach

I have just come across the above tutorial written in August 2005 by Steve Sokolowski which mirrors exactly the same problem I am having on approaches.

His solution of using an Alignment Bar seems simple and ideal. I have looked at his instructions but wonder whether they can be applied to the Cessna C172SP provided in FSX Gold Edition as the panel.cfg layout seems different.

I wonder if anyone has a modified panel.cfg they could provide me with (I am bound to make a mistake if I try it myself) or knows of an alternative I could use that would give the same result.

Thanks

Chris

I haven't seen that, but another thing you can do (no sim/cfg changes needed) is to note the orientation of the runway in relation to your cockpit view. If the runway appears to go absolutely straight up in your windshield, then you are aligned. Any (even slight) angle indicates misalignment, proportional to angle and distance.

Of course once you are fairly close, then you have to make slight allowances for the offset of your seat from the centerline of the aircraft, unless your seat is ON the aircraft centerline.

Hi Chris,

Unfamiliar with what you are trying to do - however - if the runway has an ILS - tune your NAV radio to it and set the course on the OBS... Now you have your gauge telling you exactly were the centerline is and your deviation from it... I commonly do this when flying into airports even when VFR... No mods necessary...

Regards,

Scott

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hi Chris,

Don't try to land the plane on the centerline of the runway; land yourself on it. The aircraft will only be off by a couple of feet at most.

Thanks for the replies, this is the link to the tutorial I am referring to https://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/content.php?1994-How-To-Stay-Aligned-With-The-Runway-On-Approach. This also links to an article by Bob Allison ( How To Stay Aligned With The Runway On Approach) whose opening statement "As I approach a runway all starts well, but as I get closer and closer, it drifts first to one side and then the other, and in the end I either land on the verges or at a crazy angle to the runway itself" describes my own problem unless I use autopilot.

I have recently purchased the Saitek Multi Panel and I was wondering if I set the HDG setting to the runway heading (that's the same as OBS I believe) and the VS to the correct vertical speed descent rate then with autopilot I should hopefully align correctly and then I can switch autopilot off for the last couple of hundred feet or so. If successful I can gradually switch off autopilot further and further away so at least part of my approach is manual.

The alignment bar seems to offer a fairly simple solution to aid alignment.

I have some CH Rudder Pedals on the way and I am hoping these will help in making finer adjustments on approach.

Chris

Hi Chris,

Well - since you are purchasing equipment - it sounds like you are pretty interested in aviation...

To learn the basics - I can't recommend this site enough - best one to teach all the principals of air navigation...

http://www.navfltsm.addr.com

As for as your Omnibearing Selector (OBS) - they come in many styles... I'm not sure what the default aircraft have in it... Here is an example:

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160525/3be5929b895465769d94cb594fd5c222.jpg

Finally - the default Cessna's aren't made very well - if you want the most realistic version available and your wallet allows it - check out the A2A C172... It's exceptional...

https://a2asimulations.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=56

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160525/3b268aa1a4e74c88c0e27744d51c7c60.jpg

Regards,

Scott

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Sounds like you need to stop thinking about alignment like driving a car and instead consider the aviation environment - where many factors intersect to get the desired alignment.

First is that the view out the window is the most important factor. Does the top and bottom of the runway align in your field of view? Then you are aligned with the centreline. Does that view drift across the screen? Then you are drifting left or right.

The way to get the practice is to do exactly what you are doing - choose a runway with ILS, tune the radios to capture it and run an ILS Approach.

At the start SAVE THE FLIGHT while you are 7 miles out and about 2,500 ft above the runway, so you can return time and again to the same starting point. Change only one thing at a time and look at the view through the screen - this is called the `sight picture` and with about a dozen of these approaches you will easily pick up what you need to do to stay aligned - plan a throw of 180 degrees from 90 left to 90 right of the runway direction for the wind and you can run these flights back-to-back until you get used to the different views - and the consistency of some elements of the sight picture.

Don't be afraid to use the pause button to get you even more time to stop worrying about the flying bit and concentrating on the visual bit.

I think you should Shift+A to the 2D panel and then press the "W" key until you have an unobstructed view of the runway, no mis-aligned panel or eyepoint to throw you off that way, it stops you from fixating on the panel instead of the runway. Once you get used to landing this way you'll be able to look beyond (ignore) the panel and see what you need to see to stay aligned, even if you use the hat switch to look over at the copilot's instruments you'll still be able to nail it.

I've also been known to tape a piece of string to the top of the monitor and weight it so it hangs dead center down the middle of the screen. If the runway centerline is on the string and parallel to it vertically you're on the correct approach path.

Always look at the far end of the runway when on approach and use plenty of rudder whenever you make corrections.

Jim

I agree with *almost* all of this. In a post further up, someone had a comment that this one reminded me of.

My personal experience is NOT making big changes with the rudder or ailerons. Lots of small changes are in order. As practice makes you better, remember that the closer you get to the runway threshold, the less correcting should be going on. When you actually arrive at the runway threshold, you shouldn't have to be making any more adjustments. If you are, then you need to continue practicing lining up from further out.

Sometimes, depending on the plane, there's something on the windscreen or panel that you can use as a guide. On my DC-3, one of the windshield wipers has a little area where the blade would disconnect for replacement (in real life). That made a perfect mark where the center line was perfectly "adjusted."

Someone else had a great comment - and I've seen this before - don't try to line the plane up by "visualizing" where the center of the plane is. If you align the center stripe of the runway with YOURSELF, the physical amount of variation from the center will be miniscule. *And* you won't be guessing about where that center line is.

My personal experience is two-fold: (1) after you've made hundreds (or even thousands) of landings, with reasonable practice instead of just getting it on the ground however you can, you'll discover it's pretty much "old hat." It's like the old getting to Carnegie Hall joke - practice, practice, practice and (2) I fly with a friend who has a couple of planes - real ones - and it's a lot easier in real life to align the plane to the runway. 3D works so much better than 2D. Even the virtual cockpit is NOT 3-dimensional!

Many years ago, when I had hundreds of sim hours under my belt, I had some long conversations with a co-worker who had a pilot's license. He said back then that if you couldn't stand being "bumped around" in a small plane, you would never enjoy flying. On all but the calmest days, your little plane is going to be gently tossed around a little bit and physics will "re-align" it to a forward direction. I've never seen that simulated very well in any flight-sim - other than a multi-million dollar full-motion sim.

Rather than set up a "scenario" (which is not totally a bad idea), find a couple of small GA airports that aren't too far apart. Just keep practicing flying between them, over and over and over and over.....

One day, you'll realize you're nailing it and it starts to get somewhat boring.

One more thing - practice at either a small GA type facility or one that just isn't very busy - maybe reduce your AI traffic. It's easy to get distracted if there's too much going on.

Art - N4PJ

Leesburg, FL

Used this to line up yesterday.

(Whishing I'd seen Jim's tip of a plumb string sooner. Would have been a quicker solution.;):))

I believe all of the above is good advice. I would add that the winds vary, and unless you've turned them off then there is always a bit of crosswind.

That crosswind will always alter your sight picture on final approach. And, thus, using a spot on the panel, glareshield or windshield will only be accurate once or twice.

If you crab into the wind on final to adjust for the crosswind, then the runway will be offset in the windshield, depending on the amount of crab. But regardless of the amount of crab, when you are correctly approaching the runway, then it will appear as a straight, vertical line. If it leans to the left, then you're flying right of center, and vice versa.

And if you are crabbing down final, you must align the aircraft with the direction of travel (i.e., kick it straight with the rudder) just before you touchdown. Cool beans and happy landings.

Used this to line up yesterday.

(Whishing I'd seen Jim's tip of a plumb string sooner. Would have been a quicker solution.;):))

...or you could do this and then all you need to do is fly through each hoop in sequence, lol

http://www.cat-tamer.com/flightsim/atchmnts/65S_81.jpg

http://www.cat-tamer.com/flightsim/atchmnts/65S_79.jpg

Wow! All that scientific reading and presentation media. How's 1,000 words -vs- a picture?

Chuck B

Napamule

Firstly apologies for the delay in acknowledging the replies, been a bit busy.

Lots of very helpful information which I will take time to digest.

Jim Robinson....I am aware of the visual flight path tool and have been using that but not seen a display like you show in your images....what is that?? Mine is just square boxes or is there a way to change that.

Napamule...am I interpreting your images correctly i.e that if the runway is midway in the left hand section of the windscreen of the aircraft then it will align correctly.

If that is the case perhaps this is part of my problem in that I am trying to align the runway to the centre line of my monitor which might not be the same thing.

Again many thanks for the replies.

Chris

 

 

If that is the case perhaps this is part of my problem in that I am trying to align the runway to the centre line of my monitor which might not be the same thing.

 

 

Again many thanks for the replies.

 

Chris

Chris, where the center line of your monitor should be is based up on where you sit. If flying a fighter or biplane where you sit on the center line. Then the center stripe on the runway should be on the center line of your monitor.

However if you sit on the left or right of center, depending on what you are flying, the center of the monitor should be as far from the center of the plane as you are sitting. Why, because the center line of the monitor is usually placed on the center line of your view out the windscreen.

Obviously the size and configuration of the cockpit makes a huge difference in the amount of offset. But unless you're flying directly behind the center of the plane, you must offset the center line of the runway on your monitor if you want the aircraft to hit it.

BTW: The easiest way to do that IMO as well as land on the "captains bars" on the runway is to concentrate on the far end of the runway, not the close end. Using the more distant point gives you a much more accurate gauge of how the plane reacts to your input. It soon becomes instinctive. Just like driving a car, skiing, etc. look at where you want to go, not where you are. :cool:

practice practice practice.

Fly to an airport you know well, approaching a runway you choose in advance, and when you are still 30 NM away, sav the flight.

Then continue, and land.

Close fsx, take a break.

Then load the saved flight and do it again.

Over and over, in the same airplane, until you get it right.

Do this with a small plane you know how to handle well.

Then when you have perfected it over loads of times, do the whole thing again at another airport.

Then start doing it in different weather setups.

It is a simulator not the real world, use that to practice things.

Only after you know how to handle and land a small plane, move up to a bigger one.

(forget about atc while doing this. use a runway no other planes are landing on.)

Jim Robinson....I am aware of the visual flight path tool and have been using that but not seen a display like you show in your images....what is that?? Mine is just square boxes or is there a way to change that.

They're just a default EFIS hoop that I placed myself with an XML script and bglcomp. I flew around the pattern once with a data utility running that logs your lat/lon/alt to a text file every 5 seconds. I imported that into MS Access as a table and output the XML from Access using a VBA script. I used a formula in Excel to compute the heading between the previous and next legs, averaged them together, and added 90° to arrive at a heading for each hoop which makes them all be perpendicular to the flight path. It was a completely custom job and specific to just the one airport (my hometown airport naturally, lol). Just for fun basically and they're only positioned correctly for something slow like the Skyhawk, anything much faster and the pattern needs to be bigger!

Jim

While taking into account of the above, on final approach, particularly in light aircraft, use your throttle to maintain the glidescope and rudder to maintain alignment. You should pretty much leave the yoke/joystick alone.

Sent from my tablet thingy!

You forgot to give advice about the elevator PITCH TRIM. You might get away with 'pretty much leave the yoke/joystick alone' in REAL flying, but I wish you luck doing THAT with the flight simulator as it stands now (due to model's FDE, etc). 'They' haven't managed to make it 'REAL' YET!!!

Thus: '..if the runway is midway in the left hand section of the windscreen of the aircraft then it will align correctly..' applies. And the answer (I am afraid) is YES.

Chuck B

Napamule

Thanks for the latest replies, was in the middle of drafting a response yesterday when power went off due to storms in the UK.

My biggest problem is "seeing" and maintaining the correct alignment of the runway on the monitor in relation to the windscreen of the aircraft I am using due to the lack of a 3D view you would get in real life. I have largely ignored this over the previous times I have used FSX relying on autopilot to get a good landing but really don't want to keep doing this.

It is my understanding that if the runway is aligned to a centre line on the monitor then all should be well as this should align to the middle of the windscreen, as per Ruperts post. This is why the alignment bar seems such a useful tool but I am not confident in making the necessary panel.cfg changes outlined in the original article I mentioned.

I will have to concentrate my efforts in getting this right as it's annoying me to hell at the moment not being able to crack it. As a temporary measure I am going to fix a short line down the centre of my monitor as I have seen this a good way to keep aligned.

Regards

Chris

Hi chris,

It's not necessary that the runway appear in the center of the monitor. Here are some pictures to illustrate:

Notice that in each of the pictures the left and right sides of the runway converge towards a centerpoint past the far end of the runway. This means that I'm somewhere near the centerline of the runway if not exactly on it. There are times when a crosswind will require you to point the nose of the aircraft in a direction that differs from the centerline to successfully land on the runway.

Right on Jim, +1 on that. To consistently put your nose wheel on the center line learn how to land using locked spot view (and NOT spot view (it has latency)). Later all you have to do is set up a key to quickly change view from cockpit to locked spot view and back. And you can open a window (press '[' key) and make it 'outside/top down view', then zoom in, and re-size and place window on top edge of monitor for 'full time' check on your position in relation to center of runway. Then practice practice. Cheers.

Chuck B

Napamule

Lots of different methods I see.;) Each equally good as long as you get it right.

But I'm not sure it helps Chris18p.

-he wants an allignment bar.

--->he doesn't say what addon, so it's not possible to advise how to install. I have never seen the addon.

--->it does tell me he's flying from the 2D panel view. It sounds like the addon ads a ruler at the bottom of the (wind)screen, and I can only see that happening if it is something you mount on a 2D panel. Like a gauge you cannot click on to do a function, but that does show up on the panel. Something like that.

--->All the advice so far is based on 3D VCockpit views, and on outside views. Great tips all, but maybe not that helpful if chris18 is flying from 2D.

Maybe post a link to the addon chrisp. if you want help with installing.

And try to explain more. Are you flying ffrom a 2D panel as I think? or are you flying from VC?

What aircraft?

I myself fly from the 3D-VC all the time, mostly in the 747VC mounted in a 737 plane. In that contraption the runway needs to be above the VC master warning button. But in a cessna 2D panel it would be very different. So tell us what your poison is.:):) It'll make it easier to advise. Maybe add a screenshot.

Thanks for the latest replies and apologies this is getting a bit long.

il88pp--it's not an addon I started out asking about, all the info is in the first post I made and the links to the original threads. As you will see it is just a modification to the panel.cg for whichever aircraft is required.

I would welcome an explanation of why 3D cockpits are considered better than 2D. I do use 3D but find the 2D view shows the gauges better but I am open to persuasion. Not all aircraft of course have 3D.

For the purpose of this post I am using the Cessna C172SP although I have a couple of others I use from time to time to add interest e.g Bombardier Learjet 60 and de Havilland DHC6 Twin Otter BA.

jandifrench--brilliant images if I were seeing that I would be a happy bunny. How far out are you in each image?

I have a couple of flights that have been created by a contact setup to start either 10 or 6 nm from the runway, this is part of a longer autopilot tuition flight. I can then either do a full ILS which is of course always perfect, or I can turn autopilot off and attempt a manual approach. I often use the mini-panel (March 12, 2014) by Bill McClennan and Dr Warren Lieuallen as this gives a clear view but with the gauges still available.

It would be really useful to have a couple of images of your approach at 10 and 6 nm so that I can compare, perhaps this would make the light bulb come on!!

Regards

Chris

I need to read that a bit closer, but first, the links.

I don't see any links in your first post.

Regarding addon, I mean, you are talking about an "allignment bar"

I assume that is something you add to popup panel? Or maybe it's a separate popup?

I really don't know, and I never heard of it. All you said is you read about it in a tutorial and you want to install it.

I'd like to help install it. But I need to know where to download it first. THen try it out on my pc, and then perhaps I can help you install it on yours.

First thoughts about your last post.

-I think 6 to 10 miles is a bit close. You may want to set up a few flights a bit further out, to give you some more time to plan the approach. But, as you like, don't let me push you.

-regarding the view. If you prefer 2D and minipanel, that's fine. I'm not hot on persuading people that my way is better. Again, all personal preference. Also depends on how good the pc is for example. My old pc I was only able to fly 2D, with 3D VC the framerates were just too low.

-I will have to do a few flights in 2D to get sure about what you are looking at. I haven't flown 2D for a while.

-Good to know you are using the cessna, and the minipanel. I'll try a few flights when I have time.

Ps, just thought of someting that might help.

--The glideslope goes down 300ft for each NM. That should help you get down in time.

It's good to know when you need to start your descent. With that under control you have more focus on the left right control.

--You can tune the ILS, then hand fly the approach while you cast a glance from time to time at the ILS indication to see if you are still on the right track. That way you get a feel for what things should look like

--I remember that when landing on an unknown runway that does not have ILS I often zoom in a bit. That helps. The view of the runway is much better if you are not zoomed out fully, but 2 or 3 steps less.

(what airport are you using for practice?)