Old Tutorial - How To Stay Aligned With The Runway On Approach

[lnuss]

I would welcome an explanation of why 3D cockpits are considered better than 2D. I do use 3D but find the 2D view shows the gauges better but I am open to persuasion. Not all aircraft of course have 3D.

 

Primarily because the "3D" (also known as Virtual Cockpit, VC) is much like the real thing, visually, since you can see the entire interior of the cockpit (with panning, not all at once). The so-called 2D cockpit is just a flat, fixed panel with gauges placed on it, and is a holdover from the earlier days of FS when first, VCs were not available (they're tougher to build) and second, even outside views were more crude.

 

Many folks have learned to prefer the 2D, but if you have a device such as TrackIR, which lets you move your head around to change your viewing, even lean forward, back or sideways, or up and down, the VC is a must.

[lnuss]

-I think 6 to 10 miles is a bit close. You may want to set up a few flights a bit further out, to give you some more time to plan the approach.

 

In the C-172 he mentioned that's perhaps too far out. Jets are another story, though.

[PhantomTweak]

I often use the mini-panel (March 12, 2014) by Bill McClennan and Dr Warren Lieuallen as this gives a clear view but with the gauges still available.

If you mean FSX MiniPanel v3.1, I use that all the time, and am madly in love with it. Something to look out for, though: If you move your view around with the hat switch, it can make the gauges go off center, and it doesn't take much to be really visually confusing. Be very careful. Moving the view straight up and down is one thing, but even a little sidewise motion is a bad thing.

I find myself trying to correct a yaw error that's not there, if I move the view even slightly left or right, messing up my flying totally. I've gotten into the habit of re-centering the view with CTRL+Space bar every now and then, especially if I think it's off even just a little. It really helps. If that's NOT why I have a Yaw error, fine, but if it is, it help.

On the subject of that minipanel and a gauge with a bar for centering up on the runway, have you ever used the Landing Gauge shown in this picture?

 

That does have a bar that you can use to center up on any runway (it's off to the left side in this picture), whether it has ILS or not. It's completely independant of any radio freq, or even the presence of a radio signal at all. I used to use it all the time to give me an idea of what the runway should look like in whatever plane I'm using. Is that what you're looking for?

Pat☺

[ViperPilot2]

I've always been a 2D view guy, and I found a tip from a FlightSim guru who posts on YT that is simple and really works well, although to some this may seem a bit weird...

 

Align the Centerline of the Runway with the center of your chair, or more specifically... your crotch!

 

I know... it sounds like something out of a Monty Python sketch, but it really works!

With this method, I consistently stay on Center, and put it right down the middle of the Runway.

 

Now... would somebody please teach me how to put it 'on the numbers' instead of 1000' down the dad gum Runway??!! :p

 

Alan :pilot: :rolleyes:

[jandjfrench]

Hey chris,

Regarding your question as to how far out I am in the pictures; short answer - I don't know. But I will offer some suggestions you might find helpful. Most of the default aircraft come with the zoom set at 0.69. Compared to the real world a 50 foot wide field would appear to be 35 feet wide. The benefit of this 0.69 zoom is that in the VC more of the panel can be seen. When I want to look at the gauges I use the hat switch to look down. In order to easily return my view to looking forward, and as I fly from the VC, I have the trigger button on my joystick or yoke programmed to "Look forward (3-D cockpit)" in the "Views" section of "Controls". That way, I don't have to fiddle around with the hat switch. There is an equivalent "Look forward (2-D cockpit)" which you might prefer but I strongly recommend getting used to the VC; many newer aircraft don't bother with the 2-D panel.

Another point I'll make is regards suggestions to go into the FSX.cfg. and set WideViewAspect to True if you have a widescreen display. This is absolute nonsense. It has nothing to do with the Aspect "ratio" of the monitor but changes the default zoom setting to 0.7. Setting this to True, coupled with the 0.69 default zoom setting has the effect of making a 50 foot wide runway appear to be 25 feet wide. Quite a distortion from what would experience in the real world. My suggestion is to leave the WideViewAspect at False and go down there in the AppData tree and in the same folder that FSX.cfg is in you'll find a cameras.cfg and in the first two CameraDefinitions set "InitialZoom = 1.0".

Not only will these settings make landing a lot easier but any expertise you develop in this flight simulation will be directly transferable to real world flying.

Jim F.

 

EDIT: rather than referring to the default "Aircraft" zoom settings I should have said default "Flights".

[lnuss]

Now... would somebody please teach me how to put it 'on the numbers' instead of 1000' down the dad gum Runway??!!

 

First question: Are you using the ILS or the VASI (PAPI) for glide slope guidance? If so, that's why -- they're aimed well down the runway.

 

If you want the numbers, you need to be aware that the spot (vertically, especially) in your windshield that doesn't move up or down is the spot where your nose will plow into the ground if you don't change anything at all. Start with making that spot be the numbers. As you get "over the fence" (in a C-172 or similar) reduce power to idle and start easing the nose up gently to stop your descent a foot off the ground, then concentrate on not letting the aircraft touch the ground and remaining that foot off the ground.

 

Of course sooner or later it'll touch, but you should still try to keep it off.

 

Now that you've established the landing, adjust your aim point (and maybe a slight reduction in approach speed, 2-3 kts) until you are consistently landing where you want it.

 

Just remember that the aim point will be a little before the actual touchdown spot, since you'll need to flare for the landing, and that changes the physics of what's happening.

 

If you have problems getting that consistent "foot off the ground" then before actually touching down, go the length of the runway a foot off the ground -- do this several times to learn consistency -- then after several tries, do the same thing but cut the power to idle while in the flare or shortly after.

 

Keep your eyes outside the cockpit all this time, with perhaps an occasional momentary glance at the airspeed indicator, but otherwise forget the gauges and concentrate on that aim point.

[ViperPilot2]

Awesome tip, Larry! I will practice, and let you know how I do!

 

Yes... my eyes are fixated on the PAPI, but your method sounds much more 'natural'!

 

Alan :pilot:

[jandjfrench]

Hey viper,

I totally agree with your landing advice and just to expand on it a bit, while taxiing in the VC the taxiway lines should be giving you a wedgie.

Regarding sticking the landing: as the aircraft begins slowing for landing the nose rises. Flaps not only provide additional drag to slow the aircraft but they also cause the tail to lift thereby keeping the touchdown point in view. As the slowing continues more flaps provide additional slowing and more lifting. Now there's a win-win situation if there ever was one.

Jim F.

[PhantomTweak]

I almost always have a HUD in my birds. Realistic? I don't care. IMHO it's the greatest gauge ever invented for aircraft, military or civilian. Lets me keep my head out of the cockpit, but still see the information I need to fly "properly"

Having said that, a HUD lets me put the velocity vector ON the spot I want to land, and that's where the plane goes! By the same token, I pretty much fly Navy planes, and you don't flare for landing. You establish the right AOA and just fly it onto the runway.

Of course, most commercial airliners don't have the gear for a 700 FPM landing, but hey, it works for me!

Maybe you could add a HUD to your aircraft, and use the velocity vector to hit the spot you want, until you get used to the "sight picture", then take it out and see how it works for you?

Just a suggestion :)

Pat☺

[il88pp]

I allways fly the pattern at 3000 ft. That way the approach becomes almost automatic.

By doing the same thing over and over. Same altitude, speed, etc, I know when to turn and when to descend.

My descent starts 10NM out.

 

I did a flight in the cessna 172 in 2D panel view. Tried minipanel as well.

First, minipanel is a difficult view. Hard to estimate your bank angle, and hard to keep wings level.

 

2D panel. Slightly better.

3D. Gives you a good perspective of your aircraft in relation to the runway.

 

Don't know how to best explain.

All 2D panel views:

-----------------

1 - turning to final. Already at correct altitude for glideslope.

 

-----------------

2 - slightly off to the right.

-----------------

3 - In next three pics slowly getting too high above glideslope. Notice the ILS indication. (topmost dial on the right.)

4

5

 

 

-------------------

6 - Descended sharply. Now I'm on glideslope again.

 

-----------------

Slightly above, but will make it to the runway. No more sharp descent. Just land a bit long.

7

-------------------

---------------------

Some drawings of how the Runway displays on the screen.

 

In 2D you would want the Runway salmost straight ahead of you as well.

In the C172-SP I want the runway just on the right of the artificial horizon instrument. (See last images above.)

But also look at how the runway looks. Does it make a right angle with the horizon, as in the last drawing. If not, you need to correct.

 

In 3D you can turn your view left or right, and the RW would be in one side of the screen. But the effect shown in the drawings below will still be clear.

 

------------------------------

1 - you are off to the left.

 

-------------------------------

2 - you are off to the right.

 

---------------------------

3 - Centered

[chris18p]

Hi everyone

 

Really appreciate the time and patience everyone is showing. There is one heck of a lot of info so I think I need to take a few days to read through (several times I suspect) what's been posted and then try and put things into practice so I will just answer a few replies that I need further clarification on. Apologies to any contributor that I don't mention.

 

#########################

jandifrench

 

"My suggestion is to leave the WideViewAspect at False and go down there in the AppData tree and in the same folder that FSX.cfg is in you'll find a cameras.cfg and in the first two CameraDefinitions set "InitialZoom = 1.0".

 

Is that just a tweak to CameraDefinitions then?

 

*************

PhantomTweak

 

"On the subject of that minipanel and a gauge with a bar for centering up on the runway, have you ever used the Landing Gauge shown in this picture?"

 

Looks interesting Pat have done a search but can't locate that gauge. Is it available as a download and if so do you have a link?

 

*********

il88p

 

"I need to read that a bit closer, but first, the links.

I don't see any links in your first post."

 

The link I refer is in my second post, I have checked again and it is working but will repost just to be sure.

 

 

https://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/content.php?1994-How-To-Stay-Aligned-With-The-Runway-On-Approach

 

With regard your post of 06-03-2016 at 07:53 PM.I have been using the 6 to 10 nm as this is an option that x-plane, which I also have, uses for approach training. In x-plane, if you are not familiar, this is very simple to set up for any airport but with fsx this, as far as I know, can only be done by saving a flight at a certain point to create a new one, which is exactly what I have done. If there is a better method would be pleased to know. I find that too far out I have a problem in actually "seeing" the runway...is there a zoom option I could use to bring it into view.

 

The last set of images and diagrams you posted are great, now i need to study them in more detail.

 

***********

scott613

 

A2A C172 looks really nice but at the moment I'm not in the market for more expense having added several pieces of hardware, but will keep it in mind.

***************

"however - if the runway has an ILS - tune your NAV radio to it and set the course on the OBS."

 

I have used OBS force autopilot flights but will give this a try, should be easier now I have the Saitek Multi Panel and Radio Panel.

 

**************

Jim Robinson

 

"I've also been known to tape a piece of string to the top of the monitor and weight it so it hangs dead center down the middle of the screen. If the runway centerline is on the string and parallel to it vertically you're on the correct approach path.

 

Always look at the far end of the runway when on approach and use plenty of rudder whenever you make corrections."

 

Was going to give that a try and now I have my CH Rudder pedals see if I can make a better job.

 

*********

napamule

 

"To consistently put your nose wheel on the center line learn how to land using locked spot view (and NOT spot view (it has

latency)). Later all you have to do is set up a key to quickly change view from cockpit to locked spot view and back. And you

can open a window (press '[' key) and make it 'outside/top down view', then zoom in, and re-size and place window on top edge of monitor for 'full time' check on your position in relation to center of runway. Then practice practice. Cheers.

Chuck B"

 

Interesting about the difference between locked spot and spot view for approaches...will play around with that.

 

_______________________

As I said at the start there is a lot of information to absorb and once I get responses to the above I intend to take a few days going through everything and putting things into practice.

 

I think I have concluded that I need to take more note of my instruments when approaching and not just rely on my eyes and to pause the flight to check what I am actually seeing.

 

I now have my Saitek Cessna Yoke, CH rudder pedals, and Saitek multi panel and radio panel and I am hoping all these combined will eventually lead me to be able to make a good landing without always relying on the autopilot.

 

Regards

 

Chris

[il88pp]

Ok, had not found the link earlier. Looked at it now.

 

 

To add your new window05:

 

at the top of the panel.cfg you will see something like this:

[Window Titles]

Window00=Main Panel

Window01=Radio Stack

Window02=GPS

Window03=Annunciator

Window04=Compass

 

there you need to add a line as well. This one:

Window05=Target

 

Then you add the [Window05] section as described. The formatting in that guide is a bit confusing.

This is what you should add. (according to the guide. I didn't test it yet.)

 

 

//------------------------------------------------

[Window05] // VERTICAL BLUE LINE

Background_color=41,200,253

size_mm=512

window_size_ratio=1.00

position=0

visible=0

ident=Target

window_size= 0.003, 0.407

window_pos= 0.505, 0.07 // Position left, Position Up-Down

// Increase this Number '.505' Line goes RIGHT Lower this number '0.07' - Line goes up

// ------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------------------

If it then stil does not show up, try the following.

I notice at the top the line is:

Window05=Target

 

and in the [Window05] section is also the line:

ident=Target

 

I have had better luck with panels showing when the ident was slightly different from that line at the top.

So perhaps change:

ident=Target

to

ident=align

 

That may help.

The window should show when you press +

 

 

il88pp.

[PhantomTweak]

You said you use Minipanel3, didn't you? That landing gauge is part and parcel of it. It's one of the icons in the stakck on the left side. I am pretty sure there's a stand alone version in the library too. Let me look real quick...

Yes there is. It is located HERE in the library. It's a gauge made for FS9, but it will work fine in FSX as I recall.

It is in the minipanel3 also, see the attached screenshot. The short blue arrow points to it's icon. If you look through the Minipanel.cfg in the gauges folder, you can find the gauge window and add it into you panel as a standalone. I do stuff like that frequently. SO many of those gauges are so useful. The PAVETAC , SALS, etc etc...

 

Does this help at all? I can give you some nice HUDs to install too, if they would help :)

Pat☺

[chris18p]

il88p

 

Thanks a bunch your mod worked perfectly now got it installed the bar in 2 aircraft as a trial as seen in image.

 

 

Tried a couple of test flights and think it could be very useful, much better than a piece of string. Glad you worked out the formatting it had me completely confused (not difficult)

 

Still got same problem of over compensating my movements. Start of OK then do a minor change (so I think) and the movement is more than I anticipated so then have to correct and go out of alignment. Must practice, practice, practice. The CH rudder pedals are quite sensitive so got to get used to them.

 

Pat

 

"If you look through the Minipanel.cfg in the gauges folder, you can find the gauge window and add it into you panel as a standalone. I do stuff like that frequently. SO many of those gauges are so useful. "

 

That's very true and your link etc. very helpful.

 

Is it a simple task to add the gauge as a standalone??

 

The HUDs could also be useful

 

 

Regards

 

Chris

[jandjfrench]

Hey chris,

Rudder pedals? Unless you're dealing with a fairly substantial crosswind they shouldn't be much of a factor. In real world flying they'll keep you from being forced left or right in you seat but this feeling is not modeled in the simulation. You only have the ball in the turn and bank indicator to guide you and I, and I suspect most people, pretty much ignore this. Try to avoid heavy crosswinds while learning and reserve using the pedals unlessl you're on the ground.

Jim F.

[PhantomTweak]

No problems :)

For the SALS window (Satellite Assisted Landing System, the actual gauge name) add

gaugeXX=MiniPanelV3!F111_SALSv9, YYY,ZZZ,AAA,BBB

Where XX is the next number after the last gauge listed in the panel.cfg,

YYY and ZZZ are the Horizontal and Vertical location of the gauge in Pixels,

and AAA and BBB is the Size of the gauge it's self. I recommend keeping it 56,77 or at least the same ratio between the two.

This will show the SALS only, not the SALS + AOA + OMI lights.

I think. I didn't test it.

 

HOWEVER:

To add an Icon for the SALS+AOA+OMI you will need a small XML file I wrote, as the Icon shown on the minipanel is part if a larger stack of icons.

Copy the code listed below to Notepad or something similar (I use Notepad++. It's easier to "save as" for XML files), and Save As an .xml file.

 

  //------SALS----

SALS

1676 (>K:PANEL_ID_TOGGLE)

It's a very small file to call the SALS window, as I am listing below.

Having gone through all that garbage, to have the SALS window simply pop up by using a SHFT+# key combination (shft+4, for example), or pop-up using the Icon shown above (you need this for either way), add the following to the Panel.cfg (remember to make a back-up first!!):

 

in the [Windows] section add

 

WindowXX=1676 //SALS window

 

Where XX = one more than the last WindowXX= that was in the section

IE:

 

[Windows]

Window00=Main

Window01=Radio stack

Window02=GPS

Window03=1676 //SALS Window

 

Just as an example. That would make the window pop up when SHFT+4 key combo is pressed.

Then, after the last section below the [window00] section, but before the [VCockpit00] section, add:

 

//------------------Landing---------------------------

[Window03]

Background_color=0,0,0

size_mm=180,130

window_size_ratio=1.000

position=0

visible=0

ident=1676

window_size= 0.220, 0.190

window_pos= 0.170, 0.030

 

gauge00=MiniPanelV3!F111_SALSv9, 19,1,118,117

gauge01=MiniPanelV3!AOA Indexer, 155,21,21,63

gauge02=MiniPanelV3!OMI, 0,27,20,61

gauge03=MiniPanelV3!vsi, 137,6,18,112

 

Save the Panel.cfg file and away you go!

Note: The [WindowXX] sections must match. IE:

If you make it Window03=1676 as shown in the example above, the [Window03] in the pop-up must be the same.

 

 

WHEW! Having gone through all that, on to something simple: The HUDS!

The best I've found is located HERE, although it's a pretty complex HUD made for Tim "Piglet" Conrad's F-111 project.

Another very good one is HERE in the Avsim Library. You do need to be registered to download from Avsim, but it's easy and free.

If you do a search in the Avsim Library for Generic Hud, it will show as genhud.zip (the best but a little complex. Not to add to the Panel, but in the amount of information presented), and there will be a couple others. Not as good, but less complex.

 

I hope all my babbling has helped a little :)

I'm going to do some CQ's now. Have fun with whatever you do :D

Pat☺

 

EDIT: My apologies! I forgot to include the bmp you need for the Icon file to work right. I knew I should have made it a .cab file. Sorry. Below, please see the attached .bmp. Just copy the file to the same folder, either the Panel folder or your Gauges folder.

Another edit: Sheesh. I am SO not good at this! You can load a bmp to the site. SO! Here it is as a JPEG. Save it off to you computer, open it with your favorite photoeditor, and save it as a bmp to get it to work. Sorry for the trouble. I really need to learn how to do this right...

 

I am pretty sure that will work...

Pat☺

[chris18p]

Thanks Pat, will print off the info and look in more detail. One point I couldn't see the attachment you mention.

 

Overall I think I have run this thread for too long and it's time to move on. All the info I have received has been really helpful and getting the alignment bar working will be a useful aid when making an approach.

 

However, I have concluded that the real problem with my approaches is me!!! I have read an old article from 2004 which sums up my problem perfectly.

 

############

You have to remember what every real-world student pilot is taught...and must learn..."Stay Ahead Of The Airplane". It takes a little while for your control inputs from your yoke or joystick to cause the action you want the airplane to accomplish. So if you are left or right of the centerline, then make a correction to get back on the centerline, but then WAIT to make another correction until the runway centerline is centered on your screen, you WILL fly through the runway centerline to the opposite side. You need to anticipate in advance when to provide the next controller input PRIOR to reaching the centerline alignment so you can counter your last change.

#############

 

I have to find a way to train myself not to expect the aircraft to move immediately and to stop making a new change until the last one has been completed. Also, need to look more closely at the speed of reaction of the Cessna Yoke i.e how much aileron movement do I get when I pull left or right when banking to avoid being heavy handed. I have read somewhere that the sensitivity setting in FSX is really just a delay setting nothing to do with actual sensitivity so is there a delay in what I think I am doing and what the aircraft is doing.

 

Not sure how to accomplish this but realise that unless I do despite all the aids kindly suggested I am never going to be able to make a good manual landing. Perhaps one idea might be to set Locked Spot and then see what's happening in flight with the aircraft aileron as I move the yoke.

 

Jim F

 

Comments noted.

 

Cheers

 

Chris

[PhantomTweak]

I have read somewhere that the sensitivity setting in FSX is really just a delay setting nothing to do with actual sensitivity so is there a delay in what I think I am doing and what the aircraft is doing.

Not true at all (here come the comments directed at me!). The Sensitivity setting will change the curve of the input from the yoke (or whatever you use) so that you have to move the yoke further from center to get a specific amount of movement of the aircraft's control surface. However, full deflection from center always equals 100% control surface movement.

Null Zone gives the old potentiometer type controllers a little lee-way on the dead spot they all have. The newer, "tunnel diode" type controllers don't have this, and you can set the null zone on those to just about zero. Just leave a small amount for human error. No way a human can hold a yoke dead center in all axes all the time when moving it in just one axis :)

I have a tunnel diode joystick, and just set the sensitivity to nearly full right, and the null zone fully left (except the rudder. I am terrible at not twisting the stick just a hair when I move it...), and leave them there. Works great for me.

There is no "delay" built into the Sim. It may take a specific control surface a moment to achieve the desired effect, especially in the slower aircraft. And the really big, heavy planes, with a high inertia inherent in them. Medium sized planes, especially a fighter type, will have a medium moment of inertia, and large control surfaces(relatively), and move a fairly rapid pace through the air, so they tend to react much more quickly than a C172, for example. The less air moving over a control, the less effect it will have for a given deflection. Even in the same aircraft. A C172 at 65kts will react completely differently than a C172 at 110kts.

Also, bear in mind that not every plane's designer takes the same effort to try and make the bird act "real". In the real world, generally, ailerons are actually bigger than they need to be, so tend to have a greater effect than one would expect from an aircraft. Maybe slightly delayed as it takes a moment for the inertia to be overcome, but a relatively large effect.

And yes, stay out in front of the aircraft. Constantly think, "If I do this to this control, what will the plane do when? What do I need to do to counter that?" Eventually it will become automatic to you, but until then, you have to make a conscious effort at it. Heck, I STILL do it myself, and I was a RW pilot for a while when I was a teenager. Glider then powered.

Hope this helps a little :)

Pat☺

[il88pp]

Pat, great addition, the gauge for the icon.

But, I think you forgot to explain how to add it to the panel. To [Window00] I think.

 

Maybe suggest a filename for the .xml file,

and then a line to add to [Window00] as well.

 

Oh, and great to hear you got the alignment bar installe Chris18!

 

Happy flights,

il

[PhantomTweak]

Thank you very much il! It's good to hear such praise from someone of you capabilities. I am not being a smart-alek, either, I am dead serious (for once :D )

I will do as you suggested, but first, I need some advice, if I may ask. I will post a thread in the Panels&Gauges forum, but if you could take a look I'd appreciate it greatly!

Thanks again!

Pat☺

[chris18p]

Pat

 

Thanks for the latest replies. It was not my intention to introduce another subject matter into the thread. I am not sufficiently expert to make any comment on the curves etc. was just quoting some interesting comments I had read that had got positive support.

 

Can you let me know when you have posted your thread as I would like to follow.