[ Club Chachapoya ] 2024 Annual Meeting, 01-04 April, Meigs

[PhrogPhlyer]

2 minutes ago, alanpugh said:

I better keep my mouth shut until I have more experience with this club

All good, open and offer!!!

[alanpugh]

5 hours ago, Bossspecops said:

 

There wasn't a 'home field' near to me in the UK. The Airbus factory field at Filton is 30 miles away, and is HUGE, and Staverton nr Gloucester is 23 miles away in the opposite direction. So I invented my own. 

 

That's Dean Forest Regional (EGDF) that Melo and I have mentioned a few times in here. I did the original version in FS2000 I think, and it was VERY basic, but Melo updated it superbly it for FSX and it works a treat. Just a pity no-one in the RW didn't take up the idea and BUILD it, there's plenty of room where we put it in the FS world, and it even has a slipway into the river for amphibians. 

 

I like that!  Lets hope no housing developments or river-front condo's were torn down to build yet another airport!!!

[PhrogPhlyer]

6 minutes ago, alanpugh said:

Lets hope no housing developments or river-front condo's were torn down to build yet another airport!!!

Too funny!!!

[taoftedal]

Sorry ... a little late into Meigs and almost late for the meeting ... lots of good comments above.  Just a few general thoughts ... 

1. How can the Club best serve you?  Flexible ... Encouraging
   1. As a (sim) pilot?
   2. As a creator (writer)?
   3. As a person?
2. Events:  Variety is the spice of life ...    
   1. Majors:
      1. General parameters (length, scoring, reporting, participation by routemakers)?
      2. How many per year?
      3. Timing?
   2. Minors:
      1. General parameters?
      2. Frequency?
3. Branding and Publicity:  Let it happen naturally.
   1. [Club Chachapoya] as visual tag in all Club thread titles.  Thread structure?
   2. How can we increase our popularity and membership roll?
   3. How can we leverage our strengths to get flightsim.com to make accommodations for us?
4. Club Bylaws, Duties, and Staff:  Keep things simple.  
   1. A basic rules/conflict resolution/disciplinary process set?
   2. What needs to be done?
   3. Who's going to do it throughout 2024 (primaries and alternates)?
5.  Have Fun!

[Bossspecops]

1 hour ago, alanpugh said:

I like that!  Lets hope no housing developments or river-front condo's were torn down to build yet another airport!!!

 

No chance, it's all river meadow land there. I chose the site very carefully, it's even got a railway station about 200 yds from the terminal. 

[Melo965]

1 hour ago, alanpugh said:

We can invent any number of reasons to skip the 10-hr allnighters and still join the fly-in.

 

You aren't going to fly all the way around the world to attend like Kit and I are in the progress of doing. 

 

[TomPenDragon]

1. How can the Club best serve you?
   1. As a (sim) pilot? Keep sharpening my skills and flying to places I might not have considered visiting.
   2. As a creator (writer)? Providing a safe space to present my writings, developing characters for the novels, and most especially, reading all the great stuff that everyone else posts in whatever form they choose.
   3. As a person? This is a tough one to answer briefly.  I think it all boils down to, a lot of us, or most, are in the most difficult time of life, when we have to deal with illnesses or the loss of those closest to us, our own infirmities, things left undone, etc.  It's nice to go through that with friends.  At the same time, I can look back with pride at the people (and dogs) who I've helped and the skills and knowledge that I've acquired, and it really feels good to put those to use helping people who've become important to me, whether through running events, conducting a meeting, PM's, etc.
2. Events:
   1. Majors:
      1. General parameters (length, scoring, reporting, participation by routemakers)?
         1. Length: 2 - 4 weeks.
         2. Scoring: Cum.V., like we did with the GAAG (just because I like slipping a homonym of, "come," past the moderators).  Free-flying should always be an option.
         3. Reporting: Times via PM to the Race Steward. PIREPS in public (having to search the PIREPS for the timings takes the enjoyment out of reading the reports, so that's why I think the timings should be reported separately).  The Race Steward should report the progress of the race on a daily basis. 
         4. Participation by Routemakers: Mandatory.  He who proposes a route must both fly it and administer the event.  Help in administering events (like I did for Alan N. for the GAAG) is on a voluntary basis.  The Routemaker should be responsible for opening the thread(s) for the event, giving sufficient time for those flying to it to complete their treks, and closing it once the last person arrives back home (or gives consent to lock the thread).
      2. How many per year? 2.  If both events reach the 4-week maximum I proposed above, that's 2 months out of 12 that we're running majors.
      3. Timing? One in winter, one in summer, depending on everyone's schedules.
   2. Minors:
      1. General parameters? Single-point fly-in's or informal challenges ("Hey Melo, wanna see who's fastest through the Cascades?").  We should allow a 2 - 7-day arrival window (a weekend to a week with friends, with consideration for Ben Franklin's wisdom: "Fish and house guests start to stink after 3 days"), with sufficient notice to allow everyone to get there from wherever they are in the world.  As in the Majors, the Challenger should take responsibility for opening, curating, and closing the thread once everyone is back to their home airports or their chosen alternative destination.
      2. Frequency? No more than one per month, considering the fact that it might take people a week or more to get to the Challenge, and a similar amount of time to return.
3. Branding and Publicity:
   1. [ Club Chachapoya ] as visual tag in all Club thread titles Note the spaces between the brackets and the words.  Thread structure?
      1. One general FBO for between events.
      2. One for each Club meeting/decision-making process.
      3. One planning thread for the Majors.
      4. One event thread for each of the Minors.
      5. Two event threads for each of the Majors: FBO and Official
   2. How can we increase our popularity and membership roll? I know I said that we should draft our own responses instead of building off of others'.  In my draft, this item is blank; I haven't a clue.  But I would like to echo jgf's reply to this: Better a couple of people who enjoy flying together and telling tall tails about it, who all share equally in the work of the Club, and who exhibit the maturity to do all of this in our little social group, than 100 shmucks.
   3. How can we leverage our strengths to get flightsim.com to make accommodations for us? I'd rather work this out offsite via e-mail/phonecon with the appropriate parties.
4. Club Bylaws, Duties, and Staff:
   1. A basic rules/conflict resolution/disciplinary process set? A repeat of my first post here, additions in red.
      • Disagree without being disagreeable.
      • Be slow to anger, quick to forgive, and leave pursuing grudges in the box in the attic with all the rest of the things from our childhoods.
      • Express ourselves, perhaps even insistently when a point's very important to us, but put finding a liveable consensus over winning a point.  Let's all get on the same side of the table here and come up with answers, rather than going round and round in pointless arguments.
      • This is a single-level group.  No one's opinion has any more validity than anyone else's here.  Whatever else we've been in the past, here we're all just fellow fliers, trying to have fun together.  Whatever skills and knowledge that we've acquired throughout our lives only matter to the degree that we lay them on the table and use them to help our brothers-in-wings here.  Leadership is a service here, not a position of privilege, and shall be undertaken only with the intent of improving our fellow fliers' enjoyment of the group.
      • When something offends us, let's take 5 or even wait a day or two and make our response a considered Action, rather than a brute Reaction.  As I used to tell my clients, "The one who unconsciously Reacts rather than consciously Acts. loses."  Save Reacting for when you're on final into KCGX, past decision height, and that nice, 30-knot headwind suddenly drops to 0.
      • We all have different skill and knowledge sets.  Never ridicule a question, just because it seems too basic.  Let's put ourselves in the other person's shoes, lace them up, and go for a nice, long walk.  A lot of us are prideful people.  Many of us have done a lot over our lifetimes.  When we find ourselves with a group of other similarly-accomplished individuals, who are all talking about something we don't understand, we tend to not ask the million-and-one questions we have because we don't want to seem dumb.  When we finally do screw up the courage to ask something, the worst thing that can happen is that someone laughs at us for it.  All that does is confirm our feelings of inadequacy.  When will we ask them another question?  Never.  When will we feel safe and confident around that someone or enjoy spending time with them?  After we ask another question and receive a decent, honest response from them.
      • English is the language for our interactions.  We all have different levels of it.  Even those of us who are native English speakers have vast national/regional/cultural differences in how we express ourselves.  Let's not assume that a question or comment is understood by all - in fact, a more valid assumption is that at least one person here will not understand what we've said in the way that we intended it to come out.  Ask. Clarify. Above all, let's be patient with each other.
      • I would like us to get to the point that we can discuss everything, even religion, politics, and which sim version is better (okay, maybe just religion and politics), by presenting our ideas for our readers to make up their own minds.  Let's debate, not argue.  However, when something offends us, we should wait until we can reply with a simple, "That offends me," and perhaps an explanation if we think the offense might have been made out of ignorance.  The proper thing for the offender to do, then, is to apologize (even if we think that we were in the right), let it drop, and continue on.  Should this not suffice (in order of escalation):
        • Work it out via PM.
        • Get the Club Commodore involved in the PM's.
        • Take it public for a "hearing" to determine fault and remedial actions.
        • If the above does not yield results, or if an offense is particularly egregious, it is time for a removal "hearing".  The votes of a simple majority of Club members will be required for expulsion.
      • Examples of egregious offenses:
        • Ridicule of another member, bullying.
        • Racism, ethno-nationalism, religious bigotry.
        • Intellectual property theft within the group.
        • Falsifying timing reports in an honors system race, or any other form of cheating.
        • Failure to fulfill obligations without a reasonable explanation.
        • Violating the confidentiality of a PM interaction.
        • Abuse of authority.
      • Any proposal for a route, Challenge, Fly-In, or any other activity that will require Club members to take action, is a commitment on the part of the proposer to both participate in the activity and to administer it.  In other words, if it's your baby, you change the diapers.  You may enlist help from other Club members, but this is strictly voluntary.
   2. What needs to be done? Following is a likely incomplete list of roles within the Club.  Members may occupy one or more roles at a given time.
      • Club Commodore:
        • Curates the interactions on the non-event-related forums.
        • Gets involved in dispute resolution when needed.
        • Calls meetings as needed.
        • Prepares/backstops other Commodores and Race Stewards.
      • Routemaker:
        • Develops the routes used in the events, proposes them to the group in the appropriate forum.
        • If a route is accepted, has whole control over the route:
          • Types of aircraft.
          • Timing system.
          • Other rules.
          • Staffing.
        • Becomes the Race Steward.
      • Race Steward:
        • Opens/closes the event thread(s).
        • Curates the event thread(s).
        • Ultimate authority in disputes.
      • Timing&Scoring Official:
        • Receives and records PM'd timing reports.
        • Reports the results of the race on a daily basis.
      • Advisor: Offers subject-area knowledge and support on aspects of aviation or other Club-related issues to one or more members of the group,
      • Flier.
   3. Who's going to do it throughout 2024 (primaries and alternates)? The Commodore should be an elected position and a variable-length term.

[jgf]

4 hours ago, alanpugh said:

for starting at a point closer to the fly-in destination

 

 

There was no stipulation that anyone fly to Australia for that event.  I did so on a whim after someone mentioned it;  it was an interesting flight, plotted leg by leg using Destination Finder. 

 

So far our flights have been designed so there is plenty of time for everyone;  and there is discussion before the "rules" are finalized.  I deem this a leisurely pastime for us all;  RL (which I eschew at every opportunity) provides enough stress.

[jgf]

As for real names, doesn't matter to me.  FTR, "jgf" are my real initials, and how I usually sign my name;  I go by my middle name - Graham.

[ViperPilot2]

Regarding Minors and Gen Parameters: If the Length of the Event includes the time to announce, reply and fly the Event itself, then 7 days should be enough. The Meigs or Bust fly in is a good example. We should agree on a suitable Timeframe between Events; "we should announce soon so no one loses interest" vs. "I need enough time to decompress from the last thing".

 

Thread Structure: seven Threads seems a bit much, especially since some have mentioned that there were too many Threads already and they couldn't distinguish between them. There are three currently active, and it's a lot to keep track of because people are posting everywhere.

 

This is why I tried to create a place for us in the Clubs section of this Site; a place away from the regular Forum to do with as we pleased and not look like we're hogging the place. However, because there's no mechanism for anyone to Post in the separate Sections, it's nothing more than a Billboard draining Bandwidth. Numerous PM's to the Site Administrators have gone unanswered.

 

[TomPenDragon]

4 hours ago, alanpugh said:

Also, in out virtual worlds, we may have personal, job-related or family reasons for starting at a point closer to the fly-in destination.  We can invent any number of reasons to skip the 10-hr allnighters and still join the fly-in.  Except in the case of tracking or score-keeping. 

We all fly differently.  I'm a serial flier, and I'll always depart from the airport that I tied down last, whether or not I post a story about it.  Others set up flights from and to whatever airport catches their fancy that morning, or as part of a new Challenge.  So, however you want to do it is fine with me, and though I would not presume to speak for anyone else here, is probably fine with everyone else, too.

 

4 hours ago, alanpugh said:

better keep my mouth shut until I have more experience with this club <G>.  

When I was doing teambuilding and process engineering, oftentimes the most valuable person to the effort was the new guy - If he'd talk, he'd show everyone else where the problems and opportunities that those who had been there longer could no longer see (the phenomenon is commonly called, "Shop Blindness").  So, let me ask you directly, Alan: You've read the responses to this thead so far.  What are we missing?

[TomPenDragon]

With regards to the Home Airport, I'm kind of with JGF on this one - if you give me a choice of Meigs or Bust, I probably won't choose Meigs.

 

I like the idea of rotating it.  And I like the idea of flying to each other's home airports - throw a wild happening, trash their pad, then split (if those under 60 need a translation, let me know).  Who wants to host first?

 

I also like the idea of taking currently unused airports that are active in the legacy sims, such as Meigs and Tempelhof, "refurbishing" them, and taking them for Club airports.

[PhrogPhlyer]

35 minutes ago, TomPenDragon said:

What are we missing?

[TomPenDragon]

Boeing's building slides now?

[ViperPilot2]

I'd love to do Scenery Design in the worst way, but I don't know the first thing about it. Can't find a Guide for Dummies anywhere! I know we have the Capability in the Club, but then the cross Platform compatibility issue comes into play because Nine and FSX/P3D are so different. Hence, either Default or if there's 'basic' Freeware available that enhances Default in some way. And, individual Immersion factor plays a part, too.

[jgf]

16 minutes ago, TomPenDragon said:

currently unused airports

 

Lol, this is about a mile from where I went to high school-

 

https://www.airnav.com/airport/67A

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Deposit–Lowndes_County_Airport

 

wouldn't be surprised to find cows on the runway

[jgf]

1 minute ago, ViperPilot2 said:

do Scenery Design in the worst way

 

That's how I do it.

[ViperPilot2]

9 minutes ago, jgf said:

 

That's how I do it.

 

I don't want to be snarky, but it's like there are a bunch of little Programs that do a little of each, but not one that does everything. Then it's 'convert this to this, then back to that'...If you don't know which one to use for what, then you've just blown up the Sim and you're SOL. Or else it's "RTFM,'. I don't know an Exclude from a Flatten or what to do!

 

Repainting is another one; something with what you're very familiar with. There's all the different Layers, the Alpha Channel, then what Format? It's so head spinning! I tried to use DXTBMP or something like that to convert a set of.dds Textures to .bmp for Nine, put the converted Texture in, fired up the Sim and it locked up! AAARGH! It's obviously way above MS Paint!

[Melo965]

16 minutes ago, ViperPilot2 said:

I'd love to do Scenery Design in the worst way, but I don't know the first thing about it.

 

I would suggest Airport Design Editor (ADE).

 

It can be found here:

 

https://www.scruffyducksoftware.com/airport-design-editor

 

I was home from my job for about 5 weeks during the pandemic and learned how to use it then.  I have built 4 airfields since then, the best one being Kit's EGDF.  The manual for ADE is 390 pages long though.    I learned how to use it bit by bit and it was not very difficult to use in the long run.

 

[TomPenDragon]

Right now, it's morning in Australia and end-of-day (or past) in the UK.  Can I ask everyone to re-read the posts here and tell us where you see agreement/disagreement in what we've all written?  How would you suggest we proceed, given what's here so far?

 

I outlined a Code of Conduct in my response.  What would you add/delete?

[PhrogPhlyer]

22 minutes ago, ViperPilot2 said:

Can't find a Guide for Dummies anywhere! I know we have the Capability in the Club, but then the cross Platform compatibility issue comes into play because Nine and FSX/P3D are so different.

Well this dummy figured it out, slowly and with minimal frustration.

Luckily ADE works the same whether creating FSX or FS9 scenery, and scenery objects are mostly compatible (but not the actual scenery. flat vs round earth).

Once I clean up more space on the HD I'll install FS9 again, and then see how difficult it is to do side by side scenery creation... make a taxiway in one, then make same taxiway in other.

Slow but might work.

 

 

[PhrogPhlyer]

35 minutes ago, TomPenDragon said:

Boeing's building slides now?

The slide was delivered per spec and certification, not our fault if the carrier might look the other way.

Besides this is what happens when you let them bring their overweight carry-on with them on the slide.

[PhrogPhlyer]

4 minutes ago, TomPenDragon said:

What would you add/delete?

Hmmm...

Rule One - Have Fun

Rule Two - Be Respectful

Rule Three - If you don't agree with me... so what!

 

[ViperPilot2]

5 minutes ago, TomPenDragon said:

Right now, it's morning in Australia and end-of-day (or past) in the UK.  Can I ask everyone to re-read the posts here and tell us where you see agreement/disagreement in what we've all written?  How would you suggest we proceed, given what's here so far?

 

I outlined a Code of Conduct in my response.  What would you add/delete?

 

So far, I can see equanimity in:

 

Rules... The Less, the Better.

Majors... no more than 2-3/Year (or every 4-6 Months), 2-4 Week duration.

Minors... one, maybe two in between Majors (which leaves a lot of Down Time)

Timing... Everyone likes it.

No Home Airport.

 

3 & 4 seem to be the Sections that folks aren't too worried about...

 

However, this is just my read. The down time between Events concerns me.

[ViperPilot2]

37 minutes ago, PhrogPhlyer said:

The slide was delivered per spec and certification, not our fault if the carrier might look the other way.

Besides this is what happens when you let them bring their overweight carry-on with them on the slide.

 

Manufacturer's Warranty... 30/30.

 

Thirty Feet or Thirty Seconds... Whichever comes First!

 

Engine and External Panels falling off, Wheels falling off the Undercarriage (Triple 7 in both instances)... that ain't Boeing; that's UAL.