[ Club Chachapoya ] 2024 Annual Meeting, 01-04 April, Meigs

[taoftedal]

2 hours ago, ViperPilot2 said:

3 & 4 seem to be the Sections that folks aren't too worried about ... 

 

Agree

[jgf]

1 hour ago, ViperPilot2 said:

but it's like there are a bunch of little Programs that do a little of each, but not one that does everything

 

This is true for full scenery design;  want to move a road or river, that's one program;  want to replace LC files, that's a different program; want to edit the mesh, yet another program, etc.  But if you just want to create an airport, whether a little farmstrip or a new LAX, that will be 99% one program.

 

2 hours ago, ViperPilot2 said:

There's all the different Layers, the Alpha Channel, then what Format? It's so head spinning! I tried to use DXTBMP or something like that to convert a set of.dds Textures to .bmp for Nine, put the converted Texture in, fired up the Sim and it locked up!

 

MSPaint is fine for basic jobs, but it does not handle DDS or extended bitmaps.  Standard bitmaps are 24 bit and virtually any program will work with them, but FS wants extended bitmaps, which are 32 bit and rarely used (the extra 8 bits are for an alpha channel).  DDS (Direct Draw Surface) is a compressed bmp format that can be handled directly by DX graphics processing.

 

I use Paint Shop Pro for most of my graphics work, numerous editing options and works easily with layers and vectors;  it will handle DDS with an extra plugin but does not support 32bit images (this is where DXTBmp comes in);  not free but a used copy is quite cheap.  GIMP or Paint.net are free options, not as versatile as PSP but will work with layers and DDS.

 

You don't need to be conversant with the various DDS/DXT formats  (https://www.fsdeveloper.com/wiki/index.php?title=DXT_compression_explained), let DXTBmp handle it.  My procedure (using PSP as example and assuming a layered template to work with)

-copy an existing texture folder and rename it

-obviously do all editing in the template until satisfied

-with DXTBmp open the appropriate file from the new texture folder, select "send to editor", this will open PSP with "norm.bmp" (the image) displayed, leave DXTBmp running

-open your edited template, merge (flatten) the image, (DO NOT SAVE!), copy this and close the template (DO NOT SAVE!)

-with "norm.bmp" displayed hit CNTRL+A to select the entire image, paste the copied template image into this and save (this will be an ordinary 24bit bmp)

-switch back to DXTBmp and "import from editor", you should see your new graphic now, save, OK any popups about options without changing anything, DXTBmp will save the file in its original format in the new texture folder

 

If you need to edit the image (always, seems like) do not edit the file in the texture folder, every time it is opened and saved the quality degrades.  Do all editing in the layered file and repeat the above process to get it in the final texture file.

 

In most cases you will not have to edit the alpha layer;  there is a separate section, upper right, of DXTBmp for working with it.  Procedure is the same as with the main image except the alpha is a 256 color greyscale image, the darker the grey the more reflective the surface.  In some aircraft the alpha channel is used for transparency, where pure black (0,0,0) is transparent;  whether it is transparency or reflectivity is programmed into the model file.  And in some cases the alpha is not used at all, but FS still wants the 32bit format

 

 

 

[ViperPilot2]

4 hours ago, Melo965 said:

 

I would suggest Airport Design Editor (ADE).

 

It can be found here:

 

https://www.scruffyducksoftware.com/airport-design-editor

 

I was home from my job for about 5 weeks during the pandemic and learned how to use it then.  I have built 4 airfields since then, the best one being Kit's EGDF.  The manual for ADE is 390 pages long though.    I learned how to use it bit by bit and it was not very difficult to use in the long run.

 

 

Better to read the Manual first, or dive in and read as I go along?

[PhrogPhlyer]

35 minutes ago, ViperPilot2 said:

dive in and read as I go along

Worked for me, but I'm out of my mind!

[ViperPilot2]

17 minutes ago, PhrogPhlyer said:

Worked for me, but I'm out of my mind!

 

I've Installed ADE and started to read the Manual, but have not started the Program yet. I did verify I have a valid version of FSUIPC.

 

Which brings me to a question... Do you run the Sim Windowed or in Fullscreen?

[Lazerson]

3 hours ago, ViperPilot2 said:

 

I've Installed ADE and started to read the Manual, but have not started the Program yet. I did verify I have a valid version of FSUIPC.

 

Which brings me to a question... Do you run the Sim Windowed or in Fullscreen?

hey viperpilot, I've been using ADE for years now! please let me know if you have any questions. Phrogphlyer is also quite knowledgeable. I'd recommend just jumping in and clicking buttons- it's pretty intuitive program.

I run the sim in fullscreen

[jgf]

4 hours ago, PhrogPhlyer said:

Worked for me, but I'm out of my mind!

 

Do you suffer from insanity?

 

No. I've enjoyed every minute of it.

[PhrogPhlyer]

9 hours ago, ViperPilot2 said:

Windowed

I normally run windowed when flying, and it is especially useful when using your aircraft to identify exact positions in the sim and can see them in ADE.

I use this often to add a road into the visible road network of the sim.

 

Also, fsdeveloper.com is the place to get assistance is we can't come up with an answer here.

Search their forums, most everything I've run across they have discussed...

But I still can figure out why I can't see my taxisigns with the UTT scenery I;m doing, but I sent to Lazerson and he can. So it's definitely an issue with my machine,,, hmmmm.

[TomPenDragon]

My very brief 2 centavos re: paint programs and scenery design:

 

I use Chasys Draw for painting.  It's free, will view and open DXT and .DDS files (DXTBMP is needed to save back to DXT), respects the alpha channel, handles .psp and other layered files often found in paint kits, and it's free, though after you use it you'll probably want to make a donation  Find it here: https://www.jpchacha.com/chasysdraw/ or at cnet.com.

 

Between JGF and me, you'll surely reach your goal of designing scenery in the worst way.  For just placing a few buildings, and for massive add-on object libraries, I use RWY12.  It's not exactly WYSIWYG, but it's never failed me.

 

I've used ADE - was trying to find the manual author's name because it's a superb piece of work, and discovered that I was still on version 1.5 (the current is 1.78).  I'm upgrading now.  The current manual was written by Helli Hauck; the original by Bob Keeshan (Captain Kangaroo?).  Did somebody mention that you can paint roads with it?  I'd really like to make the Nürburgring but I need something that will follow the terrain (not taxiways).

 

This said, can we please get back on topic for a moment?  I think that we can wrap the meeting up today - good, because the bar opens as soon as we're done.  Thanks!

[ScottishMike]

I am a worried man, I fear my crash has highlighted breeches of the By-laws.

It would not have been a problem, the whole thing would not have happened, but for being stuck in a single level group; I couldn't gain altitude and get to the next level up. I just managed to get my craft through the arrival window but my visual tags got caught and I crashed. I got confused not sure if this was a major or minor. I fear I will be under investigation by Timing and Scoring officials who may have to consult the Race Steward.

The problem you see is my name: ScottishMike, this has probably already breeched the Ethno-Nationalism by-law, this is an egregious breech in its-self , never mind the crash.

No doubt the Club Commodore will be involved and consult his advisors deeming this a Failure to Fulfil Obligations. Remedial Actions will be drawn up that it will be my Duty to fulfil.

I will be drummed out of the club as the officials stand to attention in their shiny new uniforms.

 

Please take with a pinch of humour!

[taoftedal]

16 hours ago, ViperPilot2 said:

The down time between Events concerns me.

 

Warrants further discussion ... being somewhat of a proponent for 'let it happen naturally' (which has been the process to date) I do understand why some would like a little more structure.  In some ways as Australia evolved following Route 66 it may have been a little too much ... perhaps a lesson learned.   At the same time, I would hate to think Australia had been set on a shelf for a future date ... just to gather dust.

 

Some general guidelines may be helpful ... but let us not allow some exceptions (from time to time) rule the day.  Thoughts?

[TomPenDragon]

2 minutes ago, ScottishMike said:

Please take with a pinch of humour!

Of course, ScottishMike (fine to be proud of your own heritage, just don't diss anyone else's).  I like clear rule sets because they take the arbitrariness out of any decisions that may negatively affect people, such as removing someone from the Club for putting down someone else's nationality.  If I was Commodore (and in a "single level group" with "servant leadership," the Commodore's the guy who cleans the commodes), I'd be more hesitant to remove a disruptive actor if I couldn't point to a clear, previously-established reason for doing so.  First and foremost, even before the flying, the Club has to be a safe space for its members to interact (our Prime Directive), and it's the Commodore's responsibility to ensure this.

 

This said, one of the most common themes of all of the responses (except, I guess, mine) is to keep the rules simple.  The best rules, laws, regulations, what-have-you, are simply the documentation of Culture, which is, for practical purposes here, the set of unwritten rules by which we are able to interact.  If you all would like, we can wrap up the Rules part of the agenda by saying that we're going with Culture, and though we may occasionally be accused of being, "cliquey," by people who don't understand our Culture and don't share our values, leave the Rules unwritten. 

 

What do you think of this (please vote)?

[ViperPilot2]

Just now, TomPenDragon said:

Of course, ScottishMike (fine to be proud of your own heritage, just don't diss anyone else's).  I like clear rule sets because they take the arbitrariness out of any decisions that may negatively affect people, such as removing someone from the Club for putting down someone else's nationality.  If I was Commodore (and in a "single level group" with "servant leadership," the Commodore's the guy who cleans the commodes), I'd be more hesitant to remove a disruptive actor if I couldn't point to a clear, previously-established reason for doing so.  First and foremost, even before the flying, the Club has to be a safe space for its members to interact (our Prime Directive), and it's the Commodore's responsibility to ensure this.

 

This said, one of the most common themes of all of the responses (except, I guess, mine) is to keep the rules simple.  The best rules, laws, regulations, what-have-you, are simply the documentation of Culture, which is, for practical purposes here, the set of unwritten rules by which we are able to interact.  If you all would like, we can wrap up the Rules part of the agenda by saying that we're going with Culture, and though we may occasionally be accused of being, "cliquey," by people who don't understand our Culture and don't share our values, leave the Rules unwritten. 

 

What do you think of this (please vote)?

Regarding Sections 3 and 4... I'm gonna just come right out and say it...

 

Four Events in the Can, and I think we've got a pretty good handle about how each of us acts and reacts in this Club, Forum or whatever you want to call it. We pretty much know everyone's quirks and 'take' on things. 

Just talk to each other, not at each other, and we'll be just fine. If you have an Issue with what someone said, have them clarify their Post but respectfully and calmly; under our collective jocularity we're still Humans of Voting (drinking?) Age so don't fly off the Handle, okay?

 

If you're just not into the Organization, Administration or Lawgiving aspect of Club Activities, please pipe up and say so. If it comes down to the point where the same Group takes that Responsibility on, let's agree on that with the caveat that if you don't like how something's being run, then you've gotta pipe up and speak your piece. Communication, folks... It's what's made this gig as successful as it has so far.

 

Am I wrong in this 'take? Please elucidate and elaborate... 

[TomPenDragon]

Regarding Section 1 of the Questionnaire (How can the Club best serve you?), it seems like we're all in general agreement with the three sub-points.  Can we put this one to bed?

[taoftedal]

43 minutes ago, TomPenDragon said:

What do you think of this (please vote)?

 

27 minutes ago, ViperPilot2 said:

Regarding Sections 3 and 4 ...

 

Oops ... sorry ... I got a little ahead of the agenda.  I'm good ... 

[TomPenDragon]

Section 4:

 

For Section 4.1, the consensus seems to be to keep it informal, rely on Culture, work out whatever needs to be worked out as it presents itself.

 

For Section 4.2, again, keep it informal.

 

For Section 4.3, If you propose a route and the rest of us adopt it, you have to administer the event.

 

Am I right in this?

[TomPenDragon]

Section 3:  Outside of [ Club Chachapoya ] as the branding for all of our threads, I don't see anything new here.  Unless someone thinks I'm wrong in this, let's put it to bed as well.

 

Somewhat unrelated, but it seems to me to fit this section better than any other, we will rotate the Club Home Field.

[TomPenDragon]

Regarding Section 2, we all seem to be in general agreement about these points as well, though the consensus point is less apparent to me than for the other sections:

• Majors: 2-3 per year, 1 month maximum duration (not including fly-to/fly-back time).
• Minors: No fixed number of events, balance "What's next?" with "I need a break."
• The person suggesting an event is responsible for all aspects of it, as well as participating in it.

What have I gotten wrong or left out?

[wobbie]

Mmmm interesting indeed. 

Sorry, I'm a bit of a late-comer, my thoughts...

 

I obviously read, with great interest, the Questionnaire, and I've decided to just give my feelings on what has been suggested.

The major point is how to differentiate between yourselves, and any other VA/club out there.

Some valid points have been raised, & maybe I'm playing Devil's Advocate here.

I'm a very long-time simmer, and I'm also scenery & aircraft beta tester for a couple of developers that still support FS2004.

My story is as follows.. (I'll get to my VA/club thoughts shortly)

 

There are many VA/clubs out there, all offering very similar features. Airfield bases, hubs, fleet & so on.

To be honest, I did get a bit bored flying the usual point to point routes & for a long time, I lost interest in simming, because everything was basically the same. This is NOT an advert, but finding a new, for me, site with scenery & paints really got me interested in simming again.

For me, things HAVE to be interesting, & my interest long ago moved from the 'Bus's & Boeings to the low's & slow's, VFR flying instead of IFR.

 

So, this is where I've ended up with FS2004., which is probably unique, as you can multiple different themed installs. All my major stuff is freeware, & I had different installs for Golden Wings, Ford Tri-Motor Project, Space (yes, even with space scenery & spaceships, a Vintage install, (pre GW era) a heritage install (WWII) and then a 'normal' install. My favourite is my Alaska install, with Return to Misty Moorings & Tongass Fjords scenery, all populated with suitable aircraft.

 

So, this is what I'm getting at..My flying, for me, has to be different from the usual, and maybe that is what I'm looking for in a VA/club. 

AS I'm writing this, my thoughts are slowly coming together.. The late Garry Smith, developer of The Ford Tri-Motor Project & texture painter of hundreds of aircraft, said that simming is all about Fun, Facts & Fiction.

So, being Devil's Advocate again, why not try something different.. For those that do not know The Ford Tri-Motor Project site, have a look. There is a whole new universe out there that could be fun to explore, with very different scenery, including sloping runways.  There can be many interesting flights there, with a vast range of different sceneries. Also, exploring Alaska, with Misty Moorings, could be fun, with bush flying, & very different sceneries.

 

Sorry to rock the boat, and to throw a couple of ideas out there.. Maybe a good idea would be to have a 'Clubhouse' home base with satellite airfields.

 

Anyway, that's just me with my thoughts & feelings about what maybe I would prefer in a VA/club,

[ViperPilot2]

All of it looks and sounds good to me, Tom!  

If you suggest it and it's agreed upon, then you're on the hook for the whole schmear. Don't get gunshy about suggesting Routes either; if you need help just ask.

 

Another thing... If an Event starts somewhere, don't feel as if you're obligated to fly in to the Starting point; it's not a prerequisite unless you're telling a story... correct?

[ViperPilot2]

Glad to have your input, wobble! Welcome, and we'd love to have your Participation. Take some time and read through the Threads we've produced, and it'll give you a good idea of what we're all about; it's pretty much all there uncensored and raw.

And, if you think there's anyone at SOH who might be Interested in what we're all about, by all means please let them know and point them towards this Thread.

Thanks! Alan (vp2) 

[Melo965]

16 hours ago, ViperPilot2 said:

dive in and read as I go along?

 

That is the way I did it.  Skimmed the manual, then dove in and referred back to the manual when I was stuck on something.

 

[Melo965]

15 hours ago, ViperPilot2 said:

Do you run the Sim Windowed or in Fullscreen?

 

I always run in windowed mode.  Full screen leads to more problems and crashes, at least for me.

 

[Melo965]

On 4/2/2024 at 10:40 AM, TomPenDragon said:

• Take it public for a "hearing" to determine fault and remedial actions.
• If the above does not yield results, or if an offense is particularly egregious, it is time for a removal "hearing".  The votes of a simple majority of Club members will be required for expulsion.

 

I do have strong reservations about getting this serious with any "bad" behavior.  To some degree the forum admins should step in before things ever got to this point.  We are here to have fun and share our flying experiences. 

 

[jgf]

2 hours ago, TomPenDragon said:

The person suggesting an event is responsible for all aspects of it, as well as participating in it.

 

 

In that case I withdraw all the flights/routes I've posted.  My organizational skills are non-existent.

 

Outside of that , rather than a constitution and bylaws and all sorts of officious ...er, official ... activities, just play it by ear, as we've been doing.  Has been fun so far.

 

"Never take anything, especially yourself, too seriously."