ViperPilot2 Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 Loose Bolts? Bad Bolts? Bad Attachment Mechanism, period? What say you? https://m.aviationweek.com/air-transport/safety-ops-regulation/faa-grounds-orders-immediate-inspections-most-boeing-737-9s "I created the Little Black Book to keep myself from getting killed..." -- Captain Elrey Borge Jeppesen AMD 1.9GB/8GB RAM/AMD VISION 1GB GPU/500 GB HDD/WIN 7 PRO 64/FS9 CFS CFS2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrzippy Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 I think whoever handles the maintenance for those aircraft has a screw or two loose! 1 Still thinking about a new flightsim only computer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lnuss Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 Sounds to me, based on the many reports I've read and TV segments I've seen, that Boeing had an initial problem which, on the specific aircraft in question, could have been caught by not letting the aircraft fly again after the first pressurization light warning until the problem was resolved. Apparently (my opinion) that section was initially loose enough to let some pressure out while still holding, but worked its way loose on subsequent flights (note that this is semi-informed speculation, not established fact). So it seems to be Boeing's problem initially and Alaska Airline's sloppy regard for proper maintenance combined that let the problem happen. A third party, Spirit AeroSystems, may also be involved (that's not yet established) who has " numerous production-quality lapses on 737 and 787 subassemblies—its two largest programs." Since it was a rather new aircraft (delivered last October), it's not certain that maintenance (other than the warning light lapse) was involved, especially since I gathered that an inspection would have been mandatory anyway after 4,000 cycles, although that was only implied, rather than explicitly stated. So there are enough complexities in this incident that the thorough evaluation that the NTSB will do should give the proper answer, rather than blaming everyone in sight before the truth is known. We don't know nearly all of the details and it's not a five minute job... 1 Larry N. As Skylab would say: Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonesome Cowboy Burt Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 Strange, there was no reply tab showing a few hours ago but now there is. Anyways as far as the 4 bolts meant to stop upwards movement of the door plug so as not to move past the restraining pads being Loose, going by what info is publicly available as of now id say its more a case of them bolts not even being fitted. pretty shocking if so This drawing shows the bolts in question the door plug is held against pressurization forces by the 12 stop pads , the four bolts simply prevent the door moving upwards so the stop pads on the plug no longer align with the stops on the fuselage frame. (it cant move down due the upper guide design https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1738x1616/b737_door_plug_3452e2b99f8b46fe93ff09f110484caf97a69e57.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonesome Cowboy Burt Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 If substantiated this is quite damning.. QA at Boeing and the door plug Personally I'll not board a 737 assembled in the last 10 years, I know the odds of an incident are still small but sod em the company needs to be sent a message and the FAA also who have been complicit in allowing Boeing to sign off much that should have been independently audited. Regarding the 737 itself, I regard the MAX versions as an over stretch of an existing design that should not have even been built and rather the 757 developed further, but the MAX made sense to the bean counters that seem to have been in control of Boeing for the past couple of decades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhrogPhlyer Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 1 hour ago, Lonesome Cowboy Burt said: Personally I'll not board a 737 assembled in the last 10 years, And I've never been a fan of the Scarebus. If it's not Boeing, I'm not going. Putting aside personal preferences, here are the safest commercial transport aircraft. The Safest Aircraft with no fatalities or hull losses are; Boeing 717 Boeing 777-300ER/200LR Airbus A380** Boeing 787 Airbus A350** Boeing 747-8** Airbus A320/321neo Airbus A220** CRJ 700/900/1000** Airbus A340 Aircraft with excellent records are; Boeing 777-200/200ER/300 Boeing 737NG Airbus A318/A319/A320/A321 Airbus A330 ERJ 170/175/190 Boeing 737-500/600/700 Boeing 767 Boeing 757 The Boeing 737NG made the list as did the 500/600/700. Here is the difference between the 737NG and 737Max: https://simpleflying.com/boeing-737ng-vs-737-max-differences/ A lot of Boeing aircraft on the list. I find it hard to believe there is a systemic QA issue at Boeing. Boeing is industry known as one of the premier AS9100 QMS companies, as is Airbus. Let's also keep in mind that even with this incident (door plug), and the Hawaii 1988 737 when the aircraft lost a large section of tis upper fuselage (poor HA maintenance), these aircraft landed safely without an inflight breakup. That speaks to the overall integrity of the 737 design and quality. I will wait for the completion of the NTSB's investigation to see what actually went wrong and recommendations to prevent future events. Always Aviate, then Navigate, then Communicate. And never be low on Fuel, Altitude, Airspeed, or Ideas. Laptop, Intel Core i7 CPU 1.80GHz 2.30 GHz, 8GB RAM, 64-bit, NVIDIA GeoForce MX 130, Extra large coffee-black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonesome Cowboy Burt Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 You're forgetting that the NG and 500/600/700 SERIES will all have been in production for a long time now and there safety record is mostly from airframes far older than 10 years Nobody has said Boeing have been crap at QA all through history, but evidence is building that recently they really has been awfull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 The door plug issue looks to affect 737-900ER aircraft as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperPilot2 Posted January 23 Author Share Posted January 23 In general, the NTSB needs more Clout, because every time they issue their Recommendations, the Agency in question just goes GOB and tells the NTSB to bugger off. It took Colgan 3407 for the FAA to issue guidance about Crew Rest periods and CRM... will it take another case of LOL for Boeing to be proactive? By the by... that rumble and slow boil coming out of Seattle? That's Bill Boeing rattling his coffin in anger. "I created the Little Black Book to keep myself from getting killed..." -- Captain Elrey Borge Jeppesen AMD 1.9GB/8GB RAM/AMD VISION 1GB GPU/500 GB HDD/WIN 7 PRO 64/FS9 CFS CFS2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgf Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Design error? Boeing fault. Material error? Subcontractor/supplier fault. Maintenance error? Fleet operator fault. They will pass the buck for ages, inspect the remaining aircraft and get them back in the air as quickly as possible, and everyone will soon forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ftldave Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 On 1/23/2024 at 1:50 PM, jgf said: ... everyone will soon forget. Boeing shareholders won't forget as other airlines start to rethink and cancel B737 orders. Funny thing, notice that you don't see what used to be common on here, that "If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going" ditty. They've tainted their brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 It's looking like the issue happened in Boeing's Renton plant. Still best to wait for the final NTSB report, but it isn't looking good for Boeing. Not sure the airlines will soon forget about this. United and Alaska are losing money on these planes and may well change future purchases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgf Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Boeing will survive. Airbus did - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_296Q McDonnell Douglas did - https://simpleflying.com/american-airlines-flight-191/ Even more recent, who remembers this - https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/passenger-video-shows-terrifying-moment-united-flight-328-engine-caught-n1258473 In modern manufacturing the bottom line is ... the bottom line. Innovation be damned, quality be damned, pride be damned, we must pay more dividends to our investors every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperPilot2 Posted January 25 Author Share Posted January 25 QUALITY PRICE SPEED Choose any two, and sacrifice the third. "I created the Little Black Book to keep myself from getting killed..." -- Captain Elrey Borge Jeppesen AMD 1.9GB/8GB RAM/AMD VISION 1GB GPU/500 GB HDD/WIN 7 PRO 64/FS9 CFS CFS2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonesome Cowboy Burt Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Yep, as In my initial thoughts, the bolts weren't even there https://avherald.com/files/Report_DCA24MA063_193617_2_6_2024 2_22_52 PM.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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