why every pilot should have glider experience (with reviews of glider/soaring sims)

[soaringeagle]

cfr is that canadian

in the fars its 200 hours in usa

but in germany like i said my friend started at 9

 

and well the primary was only flown in the sim and i was just surprised by how much i had to push it forward to get that extra few knorts to reach approach speed

when your sitting out in open air with your feet dangling over the ground ..perhaps the angle just looked alot steeper then it was i just remember having to push the stick and thinking god it looks like i'm pointing straight down

 

its probably alot diferent sitting on that seat with nothing around you

 

and that glider documkentary showed them using primary gliders 1st then stepping up tto some huge bulky ship

no the primary gliders were single seat and they started em off with bungy launches onbly getting mayby 15 feet off the ground gliding maybe 30 and landing just to get a feel for it, then once ready launch off a hill, then a ridge. civil air patrol has uused them..as recently as 10 years ago, not sure if they still do

[soaringeagle]

MRZIPPY is so right. Every simmer should try, one day, to have a glider flight.

Being winched up is actually very exciting, & it's so quiet.

Our Virtual Club mentored 60 kids a year, as part of a 2 year project, lectures, practicals on FS2004 & flights on 'Wings Parade'day, & gliding flights were sponsored twice a year. Maybe a microflight if possible as well.

 

Great fun, & some seat of your pants flying as well. Teaches navigation, etc.

 

condor just released 3 south african sceneries i'm waiting for some from kenya where my fiances from (luyha) and seat of your pants accurately describes it cause you can feel the lift and you become very sensative to the slightest motions of the air. you 'feel' for lift as much as look for it.. yiu can feel a thermal affecting you from pretty far off guiding you to it, by trying to steer you away from it. and when you fly right through 1 you might hit your head on the canopy if its strong.

do you know of anywhere in kenya with soaring i plan on spending a month or so there each year

 

also.. gliders give you the best views of any other planes

[ianhr]

Oh, dear now I'M getting involved in this fairly pointless discussion. As far as I know, the Wrights were always working to achieve POWERED flight. They built several gliders to refine their aerodynamic designs, but the Wright Flyer was designed and assembled as a powered airplane.

[UPHILL3]

Perhaps it's the lack of news coverage, but you hardly ever hear of a glider crash, even a fatal one. Is it actually, as stated above, that glider pilots know they have but one chance to land safely and they are hyper-cautious? Or are there more accidents than we know about? BTW, does the NTSB ever investigate one, or it only for powered-flight aircraft?

[soaringeagle]

Oh, dear now I'M getting involved in this fairly pointless discussion. As far as I know, the Wrights were always working to achieve POWERED flight. They built several gliders to refine their aerodynamic designs, but the Wright Flyer was designed and assembled as a powered airplane.

 

 

wrong! they were only interested in glider flight then someone convinces wilbur to add an engine while orvile stayed committed to glider flight. in fact the powered flight was thought of as a novelty that wouldnt last

[soaringeagle]

Perhaps it's the lack of news coverage, but you hardly ever hear of a glider crash, even a fatal one. Is it actually, as stated above, that glider pilots know they have but one chance to land safely and they are hyper-cautious? Or are there more accidents than we know about? BTW, does the NTSB ever investigate one, or it only for powered-flight aircraft?

 

there are rare crashes, usualy the result of a medical condition and yes they are investigated

we lost an excelent pilot recently who even had a motorglider but had a heart attack

[lnuss]

cfr is that canadian

in the fars its 200 hours in usa

but in germany like i said my friend started at 9

14CFR is Title 14 of the Code Of Federal Regulations of the United States -- in other words, it is direct from the FAA regulations online. It has NEVER been a 200 hour requirement. I don't know where you get your information, but it is erroneous.

 

wrong! they were only interested in glider flight then someone convinces wilbur to add an engine while orvile stayed committed to glider flight. in fact the powered flight was thought of as a novelty that wouldnt last

 

I'd sure like to know your source of information for THAT one. The Wrights actually designed and made their own propellers, and for power they turned to their shop mechanic, Charlie Taylor, who built an engine in just six weeks in close consultation with the brothers.

 

Perhaps you should do a bit of research before publishing "facts."

 

I wasn't going to come back to this thread, but I couldn't let this erroneous information stand.

[lnuss]

no the primary gliders were single seat and they started em off with bungy launches onbly getting mayby 15 feet off the ground gliding maybe 30 and landing just to get a feel for it, then once ready launch off a hill, then a ridge. civil air patrol has uused them..as recently as 10 years ago, not sure if they still do

(My Underline)

 

I don't know where you got your information about CAP using what you describe as "primary" gliders. I was involved with CAP cadet glider operations in the last few years before I retired from CAP (with 30 years), and sailplanes were in use. After reading your assertion I hunted for something about CAP using "primary" gliders, and found nothing, although there is plenty of information talking about primary TRAINING, which is a different thing entirely.

 

Give me your source for this CAP information ALSO, please.

 

Do your research, learn what you are talking about, before you post such information.

 

There is one place that MIGHT require 200 hours of flying time (as a licensed pilot) and that is in giving orientation rides to cadets. That's true for airplanes and I think the same figure applies for gliders.

 

Do your research.

[soaringeagle]

sorry the 200 hours was for comercial rating

 

and the source was memory

just remembered the details wrong

and the source for the primary glider use in training came from multiple sources, dozens of pilots who started their training that way, documentaries, the soaring museum, soaring magazine that had articles on it.

kids i went to school with who were in cap

i think wiki entries even

yup

from wiki

[h=2]Modern primaries[/h]Modern versions of primary gliders are still built, but, while they are much like the originals in appearance, they are usually constructed with composites and safety enhancements.

[h=2]Types[/h]Examples include:

 

• Bonomi BS.16 Allievo Bonomi
  
• Cloudcraft Dickson Primary
  
• Detroit G1 Gull
  
• DFS SG 38 Schulgleiter
  
• Elliotts Primary EoN
  
• Jongblood Primary
  
• Manuel VI Primary
  
• Payne I.C.1
  
• Reynard R.4 Primary
  
• Sands Replica 1929 Primary Glider
  
• Schweizer SGP 1-1
  
• Slingsby Grasshopper
  
• Slingsby Primary^[2]
  
• Å oÅ¡tarić Vrabac
  
• Stamer Lippisch Zögling^[3]
  

^{philadeelphia glider council had a beautiful slingby that was in use up untill just a few years ago when it was donated to the soaring musueam.}

^{i almost got a chance to fly it}

^{i think that actualy was a 2 seater side by side}

 

^{on fb i am also in several vintage and antique glider groups where its discussed often}

 

i dont know if every cap program used them but many did as the very 1st intro to flight

[pzl 104]

I wasn't going to come back to this thread, but I couldn't let this erroneous information stand.

I agree with Larry, it doesn't make much sense to continue in this thread. Way too much wrong and misleading 'information' and I'm sure that is not possible to start your flying career by flying any single seat aircraft.

Edited January 3, 2020 by pzl 104

[pzl 104]

Perhaps it's the lack of news coverage, but you hardly ever hear of a glider crash, even a fatal one.

There are many reasons for this. E.g. they can't run out of fuel, the don't fly in bad weather and they quite often land outside airports without damaging their aircraft.

[soaringeagle]

I agree with Larry, it doesn't make much sense to continue in this thread. Way too much wrong and misleading 'information' and I'm sure that is not possible to start your flying career by flying any single seat aircraft.

 

guess again

how did the wright brothers start start? in fact the very 1st flight was a manstrapping wings to his back and jumping off a hill

 

they started with a bungy launch thaat only got them 5-10 feet off the ground

 

in fact, if you watched the soaring documentary, the guy narrating it started his flying career with just that.. a single seat priimary doing bungy launches, then moved on to using a model a then to launching off a ridge, then finaly stepped up to a sailplane

its right there in the video evidence i provided

did you watch it

[pzl 104]

I don't need to 'guess'. I believe that we are talking about completely different things.

You are talking about soaring museums and the Wright brothers and I'm talking about learning to fly today!!!

[soaringeagle]

about 8 minutes in

paul sweitzer a name you may know as 1 of the most well known sailplane designers

his 1st flights were in a primary glider

[soaringeagle]

if your ignorant on the subject its ok to admit it you don't need to be insulting and arrogant

just say 'i didn;t know that' it doesn't diminish you in any way

[pzl 104]

Again, you are talking about learning to fly 90 years ago and I'm talking about learning to fly today!!!

[pzl 104]

if your ignorant on the subject its ok to admit it you don't need to be insulting and arrogant

What? I'm out.

Edited January 3, 2020 by pzl 104

[lnuss]

sorry the 200 hours was for comercial rating

You STILL need to do your research. The pertinent FAR (they're available at faa.gov) is below, but the 200 hours is a requirement only for those transitioning from powered flight, and it is 200 hours of powered experience as seen in (2) below. In (1) below it requires 25 hours in a glider (from scratch) and at least 100 flights.

 

14CFR Part §61.129 Aeronautical experience:

 

(f) For a glider rating. A person who applies for a commercial pilot certificate with a glider category rating must log at least—

 

(1) 25 hours of flight time as a pilot in a glider and that flight time must include at least 100 flights in a glider as pilot in command, including at least—

 

(i) Three hours of flight training in a glider with an authorized instructor or 10 training flights in a glider with an authorized instructor on the areas of operation listed in §61.127(b)(6) of this part, including at least 3 training flights in a glider with an authorized instructor in preparation for the practical test within the preceding 2 calendar months from the month of the test; and

 

(ii) 2 hours of solo flight that include not less than 10 solo flights in a glider on the areas of operation listed in §61.127(b)(6) of this part; or

 

(2) 200 hours of flight time as a pilot in heavier-than-air aircraft and at least 20 flights in a glider as pilot in command, including at least—

 

(i) Three hours of flight training in a glider or 10 training flights in a glider with an authorized instructor on the areas of operation listed in §61.127(b)(6) of this part including at least 3 training flights in a glider with an authorized instructor in preparation for the practical test within the preceding 2 calendar months from the month of the test; and

 

(ii) 5 solo flights in a glider on the areas of operation listed in §61.127(b)(6) of this part.

 

Modern primaries

 

Modern versions of primary gliders are still built, but, while they are much like the originals in appearance, they are usually constructed with composites and safety enhancements.

Types

 

Examples include:

 

Bonomi BS.16 Allievo Bonomi

Cloudcraft Dickson Primary

Detroit G1 Gull

DFS SG 38 Schulgleiter

Elliotts Primary EoN

Jongblood Primary

Manuel VI Primary

Payne I.C.1

Reynard R.4 Primary

Sands Replica 1929 Primary Glider

Schweizer SGP 1-1

Slingsby Grasshopper

Slingsby Primary[2]

Šoštarić Vrabac

Stamer Lippisch Zögling[3]

 

Certainly those primary types exist(ed) but they aren't typically used TODAY, regardless of how Schweizer, Wright, etc. learned way back when. But that's a HISTORICAL list, they're ALL single seat, most are in museums now, if they exist at all now, and they most certainly could not be used in CAP training/cadet orientation rides, and it would be a rare instance today (if possible at all) to see a single seater used for training. History says the accident rate was high (I wonder why).

 

i dont know if every cap program used them but many did as the very 1st intro to flight

 

CAP, when I was a cadet in the '50s, didn't have a comprehensive glider program -- that came years later -- and you'll certainly never find a so-called primary glider used for that today. If they were ever used in CAP, it was an individual CAP pilot or CAP Squadron, and NOT part of the official CAP program.

 

Note that "kids i went to school with who were in cap" aren't necessarily the most accurate source, especially when it's your memory (unless you are still going to school with them, perhaps).

 

I see little information in your posts that I can trust. Get your facts straight about today's operation, don't try to use 1920s/1930s operations as a basis for what today needs, ESPECIALLY when you talk about safety then use unsafe examples.

 

if your ignorant on the subject its ok to admit it you don't need to be insulting and arrogant

just say 'i didn;t know that' it doesn't diminish you in any way

 

That was totally uncalled for, but could more easily apply to you.

 

I won't even be back to read this thread again. You're wasting our time with misinformation.

[GKKnupper]

Hi, Mr. Larry.

 

I posted the first comment.

 

I knew where this was leading to.

 

Worthless, wasted time and absolutely meaningless.

 

Sincerely

 

G. Kirschstein

 

P.S. I was my own test pilot for my Homebuild (Taildragger, NO Flaps, NO Spoiler, type Canard)

[mallcott]

Hi, Mr. Larry.

 

I posted the first comment.

 

I knew where this was leading to.

 

Worthless, wasted time and absolutely meaningless.

 

Sincerely

 

G. Kirschstein

 

P.S. I was my own test pilot for my Homebuild (Taildragger, NO Flaps, NO Spoiler, type Canard)

 

I can see the benefit to glider flying, but not as an alternative to powered flying, which in 2020 calls for extensive understanding of instrumentation.

 

I started unpowered flight in gliders: it didn't save a single hour in learning to fly. Only in answering questions in the classroom about basic aerodynamics... Which I learned from my flying course, anyway!