Air Traffic Control......

[gypsymoth]

I'm in touch with FS9 ATC which has given me permission to land & a mile away this is repeated & I've acknowledged.

I'm on approach hold & can clearly see the runway at an altitude of 900 ft but an aircraft slolt moves onto the runway from the left.

 

I've heard nothing from ATC about this aircraft & at 500 ft I'm told to go around. I've experienced this before with FS9 & have 2 questions.

1) Why does this happen ?

2) It seems like a fault in the system & if so can it be remedied ?

3) Is this reflective of real world flying ? I've flown a lot over 40 yrs or so & have never been in an aircraft that's had to go around......

[tiger1962]

Hi gypsymoth, this happens because FS2004 AI & ATC aren't perfect, it is a fault and there is a cure because it's not realistic at all...

What you need are two utilities called AI Smooth and AI Separation, which you launch after clicking Fly Now. The set-up is explained in this manual by Dave Sheffield: https://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/fslib.php?do=copyright&fid=127479

[tgibson_new]

The other way to handle this is to download and install the Traffic Tools SDK, and use the Traffic Explorer to delete that AI aircraft on the runway.

[johnhinson]

I'm in touch with FS9 ATC which has given me permission to land & a mile away this is repeated & I've acknowledged.

I'm on approach hold & can clearly see the runway at an altitude of 900 ft but an aircraft slolt moves onto the runway from the left.

 

I've heard nothing from ATC about this aircraft & at 500 ft I'm told to go around. I've experienced this before with FS9 & have 2 questions.

I am puzzled. This does not sound normal to me.

 

Once you have been given permission to land, no more aircraft should be given permission to take off. I have never seen an aircraft taxi onto the runway after I have been "cleared to land".

 

The only time I experience "go arounds" with aircraft taking off is at airports where the taxiway leads only to the centre or far end, then the aircraft takes so long to reach take-off position that you are too close.

 

John

[Roger Wensley]

Was this at the same airport each time it happened? Was it at the same time of day? Was the aicraft identified and as a result do you know which ai package it was part of? Was the airport a standard FS9 no frills airport or a new freebee scenery airport? I ask as I have theories based upon recent scenery making of my own, as a result of which I could easily make that happen.

[bam1220]

I am puzzled. This does not sound normal to me.

 

Once you have been given permission to land, no more aircraft should be given permission to take off. I have never seen an aircraft taxi onto the runway after I have been "cleared to land".

 

The only time I experience "go arounds" with aircraft taking off is at airports where the taxiway leads only to the centre or far end, then the aircraft takes so long to reach take-off position that you are too close.

 

John

 

I have seen this happen quite a few times to me. It happens at default as well as 3rd party airports. It's a glitch with FS9 and has been mentioned a lot over the years. I have also had aircraft over take me while I was on final. They come out of nowhere and land right in front of me.

[nadlzfw]

Personally, I haven't tried to truly fix this situation with traffic tools or some other utility. My attitude is:

 

1. Often this happens and there is no visible aircraft actually using the runway. I just ignore the instruction to go around and land anyway. The controllers all seem to accept this without having a fit.

 

2. If there are two or more runways in use, requesting the other one, not the one originally assigned by the controller, gives you better odds of not being told to go around.

 

3. If the controllers have screwed up and the runway is occupied by someone else, go around. It's aggravating, and not realistic, but the go-around is a different challenging task and adds something to the flight.

[ronzie]

Real world runway incursions do happen due to pilot misunderstandings, controller error, etc.

 

As for as FS9 it does happen. At the request of RC users back when version four was developed, when you are on final it attempts to freeze ground traffic. It sometimes works but not all.

 

I use aismooth 1.2 to increase separation a bit so queued aircraft for takeoff can interleave with arrivals.

 

In scenery design the placement of hold short points sometimes can be ineffective or the opposite can freeze ai especially when the taxiway enters the active runway at a low angle as opposed to a perpendicular entry.

[johnhinson]

Well, it seems I am in the minority here, but my observations are that the way the system is coded is that no traffic ever gets given clearance for takeoff if a landing aircraft has been given clearance to land. I believe this is hard-coded into the system and is specifically FS's decision point on the matter.

 

The exact same occurs in reverse - if you are queuing for take-off, if an approaching aircraft has been given clearance to land, you are not given take-off permission.

 

I have never, ever, seen any variation from that (and I dread to consider how many hours I have spent on FS2004) - the only possible cause I can think of is wrongly created airport modifications.

 

Are we possibly actually discussing departures after "approach clearance" rather than "clearance to land"?

 

John

[nbeauchamp]

Well, it seems I am in the minority here, but my observations are that the way the system is coded is that no traffic ever gets given clearance for takeoff if a landing aircraft has been given clearance to land.

 

Agree - never seen an instance where an aircraft has been cleared ahead of an already cleared to land aircraft - including user aircraft.

 

It should be established that landing clearance has been given and not just continue approach.

 

What I have seen though is some third party developed AFCADS allow traffic to cross the active regardless of a clearance for take off or landing - but this is crossing the active not taking off in front of a cleared aircraft.

 

Their are still quite a lot of unanswered questions that the poster should answer so we are fully aware of the situation and circumstances around this happening - (airport, runway, scenery, AFCAD etc etc).

 

Nick

[gypsymoth]

Apologies for late reply.

 

The aircraft was an orbit 737 from the default ai set & I was told to land on runway 8. Mostly outbound traffic is told to wait.

 

I assumed that inbound aircraft were prioritised over outbound & the default Bournemouth EGHH isn't a major hub of activity hence my surprise. One incident involved my being told to go around when there was absolutely no other traffic. I landed & then flew around to check & I'd heard nothing from atc about other traffic either. This was on a relaible Vista machine.

 

I have some flytampa airports in another machine & cannot remember errors with them.

Thanks for all your info.

 

PS: for the 2 doubters, I was told "You are cleared to land" which cannot possibly be misunderstood.

[Capt_Flappers]

My own personal observation in FS9 is that the only time I am told to go around is when a plane that has landed before me has not yet cleared the runway as I approach the threshold. I cannot ever remember a time I was told to go around because another aircraft was cleared to take off from the runway I was landing on. I do use AI smooth and AI separation with the setup described in a previous post.

[gypsymoth]

With an aircraft still on the runway a go around is expected. I also had one with no other aircraft in sight.

 

The aircraft moving onto the runway I was about to land on had not had permission to do so. I was 2000 yards away & in touch with atc having twice been given permission to land.

[nbeauchamp]

With an aircraft still on the runway a go around is expected. I also had one with no other aircraft in sight.

If using AI separator/smooth or similar I have found that on odd occasions landingscan get out of landing sequence in busy periods which would then cause aircraft to go around until the first aircraft has landed.

 

The aircraft moving onto the runway I was about to land on had not had permission to do so. I was 2000 yards away & in touch with atc having twice been given permission to land.

If this is just happening at one airport I would be looking into the AFCAD making sure no errors, ensuring all hold short nodes are on taxiways before runway and are within active distance.

[gypsymoth]

The airport is the default EGHH..............I thought I'd taken a screenshot & when I've found it I'll pop in on here....

 

I've only got the default ai set. Bournemouth gets about 3 of them at most!

 

In the past I've had a lot of WoAi & been in a stack of 20 or so at Heathrow & got go arounds there. EGHH was a surpise.........