Prop Pitch reversal

[GDALE14853]

Hi,

 

I've tried my hand at a vintage 4-engine piston/prop machine - Douglas DC6, by the most excellent JBK!

 

The flight notes for landing indicate the use of reverse-pitch for braking effect but, so far as my trawls through forum etc have got me, I've found some useful info on 'aircraft.cfg' file requirements for availability of reverse thrust (does not appear to be enabled in JBK's DC6 as downloaded, as far as I can tell), but I've been unable to find where, in the FSX settings, I can assign a particular button on my rig to make the reverse cut in!

 

I have Saitek Yoke & Pedals, with second quadrant - 4 throttles individual on quadrants, with single pitch lever and single mixture lever. It was my intention to set the detent at the bottom of travel on 'pitch' lever to activate 'reverse', as flying notes for DC6 say "On nose-wheel contact, apply 'reverse' and throttle up to 15-20 Inch MAP until speed down to approx 40kts", although I was not sure, from comments I've seen on other forum threads, if 'reverse' activation in FSX automatically adds thrust power.

All comments I've looked at in Forum on subject of reverse thrust seem to advise that F2 is the default activation for reverse, but I can't find it anywhere in controls settings to enable me to change/add/reconfigure a setting.

Any help/advice would be most gratefully received.

 

GDale

[lnuss]

I've not been able to get reverse thrust on piston props, only on jets and turboprops, for which F2 works fine. There are settings in the aircraft.cfg that look as if they should affect this, but I still can't get any reverse to work with piston engines.

[mrzippy]

In my JBK DC-6 in the aircraft.cfg:

 

[propeller]

propeller_type=0

propeller_blades=3

gear_reduction_ratio=2.222

propeller_diameter=12.5 //8.8

propeller_moi=26.8

beta_max=65.0

beta_min=15.0

prop_sync_available=1

prop_deice_available=1

prop_feathering_available=1

prop_reverse_available=1

min_rpm_for_feather=700.0

beta_feather=96.0

power_absorbed_cf=0.9

minimum_on_ground_beta=15.0

minimum_reverse_beta=0

defeathering_accumulators_available=0

prop_auto_feathering_available=0

min_gov_rpm=650.000000

prop_tc=0.010000

fixed_pitch_beta=20.000000

low_speed_theory_limit=80.000000

feathering_switches=1

 

 

I just changed it to 1 so now I'll give it a try holding down the F2 key.

 

 

UPDATE: F2 has no affect! Research needed!

[CrazyDaveIowa]

Tracking

[mrzippy]

I will be playing with this tomorrow. I did add to the [propeller]

 

[propeller]

propeller_type=0

propeller_blades=3

gear_reduction_ratio=2.222

propeller_diameter=12.5 //8.8

propeller_moi=26.8

beta_max=65.0

beta_min=15.0

prop_sync_available=1

prop_deice_available=1

prop_feathering_available=1

prop_reverse_available=1

min_rpm_for_feather=700.0

beta_feather=96.0

power_absorbed_cf=0.9

minimum_on_ground_beta=15.0

minimum_reverse_beta=-14

defeathering_accumulators_available=0

prop_auto_feathering_available=0

min_gov_rpm=650.000000

prop_tc=0.010000

fixed_pitch_beta=20.000000

low_speed_theory_limit=80.000000

feathering_switches=1

[mrzippy]

I did one more minor change to the [propeller] section.. I made fixed_pitch_beta=0

 

I did a high speed runway test at full power and leaving the throttles full open and pressing the F2 key, the affect is that there is no thrust by the props, in essence, acting like full feather. You can actually hear the difference in the engines while doing this test in a locked spot view.

[PhantomTweak]

One thing you might consider is changing the line prop_reverse_available from 1 to something like 2. It's a scalar, not a Boolean. Increase the scalar, maybe get some more thrust out of Beta.

Just as a "saftey" feature, try either deleting the line fixed_pitch_beta, or at least change it to =0. It says it's only for fixed pitch props, and maybe it's confusing the sim, to where the repeated F2 stops working at 0°.

Last thing I can think of is, in the .air file, make sure the record 1511 is present and correctly configured. It SHOULD, and please note the use of the word "should", be over-ridden by the aircraft.cfg file parameters, buuuuut...

All I got so far, but I'll keep digging :)

Pat☺

[bmatt569]

Can't speak to the sim but in RW the -6 definitiely does have reverse thrust. Had a few bruises from a shorter than normal landing a couple of times. (Learned to be sitting down strapped in! ;-) )

 

Bill

[il88pp]

Have you tried reversing the pitch and adding thrust like the guide in post 1 says?

Pressing f2 does not add thrust.

[mrzippy]

Have you tried reversing the pitch and adding thrust like the guide in post 1 says?

Pressing f2 does not add thrust.

 

If that was aimed in my direction, pressing and holding the F2 key reverses the pitch and I added plenty of throttle. From a stand-stil, doing this procedure does not cause the aircraft to move backwards, but also the aircraft will not really move forwards either.

[il88pp]

It was meant as advice to all in the thread.

F2 does not reduce the pitch.

F2 reduces the thrust.

 

F2 works as a reverser on jets. It reduces thrust to lower then zero.

 

On props (some defaults as well) you reduce pitch (using Contr+F2) (or sometimes the 'rpm' lever in the 2d throttles) and then advance thrust (F3 or throttle lever).

 

edit: On second thought, not sure about a default, but I did have planes that reversed this way. Was surprising, but worked well.

[mrzippy]

It was meant as advice to all in the thread.

F2 does not reduce the pitch.

F2 reduces the thrust.

 

F2 works as a reverser on jets. It reduces thrust to lower then zero.

 

On props (some defaults as well) you reduce pitch (using Contr+F2) (or sometimes the 'rpm' lever in the 2d throttles) and then advance thrust (F3 or throttle lever).

 

OK, for me, now pressing F2 in is aircraft, gives me the same result as moving the prop lever and adding power.

[il88pp]

Found it, it was the L1649A.

press and hold Contr-F2.

(Probably going negative pitch, using the 2d panel to set lever to zero is not enough.)

 

then advance thrust, creates reverse. (can be used for pushback even if you want.)

 

in the L1649A, F2 (press and hold) does not create reverse thrust.

 

hope that helps.

[mrzippy]

Found it, it was the L1649A.

press and hold Contr-F2.

(Probably going negative pitch, using the 2d panel to set lever to zero is not enough.)

 

then advance thrust, creates reverse. (can be used for pushback even if you want.)

 

in the L1649A, F2 (press and hold) does not create reverse thrust.

 

hope that helps.

 

OK, glad the you found that! Wil try the ctrl÷F2 when my backup of FSX is done!

[il88pp]

I checked my folders. The file I'm using for the Lockheed Starliner L1649A is:

starli22.zip

from flightsim.com

[CrazyDaveIowa]

Ok, I just played around with my CalClassic DC-6.

The reverse prop action on these models will push the plane backwards at a stand still.

In fact, I have seen a video of a real DC-6 backing into a parking spot; wild to see!

I'll try to find it.....youtube.

My JustFlight DC-6 doesn't have the reverse prop modeled as well, it just feathers the props.

The CalClassic birds really do stop quicker with it in action.

Could it be something in the air file and not cfg?

It has been some time; but I compared aircraft cfg of the two and did not see any differences.

I'd love to have the reverse prop in the JF version....

[il88pp]

I was thinking the same thing.

Adding "negative pitch=-15"

in the aircraft.cfg of the goose did not have the desired effect. I edited that and other related values. It either did not reverse at all, or at otehr settings only reversed, and no longer moved forward. (or stalled at 0 rpm).

 

I opened the air files side by side.

Notice the l1649a has values (-15) for prop pitch) and also has "prop treverse available = TRUE.

the goose (default) (on the left) does not have these setions at all.

 

[napamule2]

Maybe you all should look at the cfg and air file for the Nardi by Mario Noriega. It is piston and has reverse thrust. Here is zip name: mnfn333x.zip. Size: 15,363,611 Date: 10-14-2007 Downloads: 4,037. FSX Nardi FN-333 Riviera v1.0. By Mario Noriega.

 

You hold F2 down. Even works when on water. It only takes 6 taps of F2 key to get it rolling backwards. So no need to re-invent the wheel - it's been done already (ha).

 

I wouldn't change the air file. He must of (hex) edited some sections and that is what makes it work (I don't do hex edits - so no clue). You could edit number of engines, fuel load, etc and use Mario's air file for 2 or 4 engine piston ac? Haven't tried it. You do it and let me know if it worked (talking to you Mr. Zippy - hehe). I got another 'project' going right now (boxing on tv and sleep).

 

The Nardi seems to be tail heavy (tips on tail after reverse stop) so move the fuel tanks and engines to '0.000' for Longitude (just installed it so haven't worked on that (balance) part - but I will - tamale?). I AM working on Cnt Pts (gear and especially floats).

Chuck B

Napamule

[GDALE14853]

Thanks so much to all you guys for all the help and research into this!

 

I have leaned little bits about what the aircraft.cfg file entries do, although I've only really tried modifications as suggested by someone more knowledgeable in a forum discussion. I have no knowledge on the '.air' file at all, and so have never been tempted yet to ever try an editor to look at it.

I know the real-world DC-6 used prop reverse on landing - I've seen and heard it in action on Air Atlantique's DC-6 on the runway at Coventry (UK) - I was hoping there was some way it could be made to work on the sim!

I also know very little about configuration of the controls on my Saitek quadrants etc, as far as assigning a particular key-format to a switch, for instance, so I can use one of the lever detent switches to activate the 'reverse'. Can anyone tell me how best to achieve this?

 

As for "Top Gun"'s mention of the L1649 prop reversal working, do I need to 'copy' any .cfg entries etc from the 1649 to the DC-6 to make it work there?

 

Sorry if I'm a bit slow at getting the gist but, as I said earlier, I'm still very much a novice in the department of making file edits etc to get things to work the way I'd like. I'm enjoying learning more, though, especially as you guys are so generous with your help!

 

Thanks again, and happy flights (sim or R/W) to all.

 

G.

[lnuss]

As for "Top Gun"'s mention of the L1649 prop reversal working...

 

A side note here: "Top Gun" is a notation put in by the forum software (the same way your post says "Junior Member" ) after an ID has several thousand (5000, I think) posts. His screen name is il88pp. You're not the first to misread that, so don't feel bad.

[mrzippy]

For anyone interested, Yes even you Chuck! I did get it working for the JBK DC-6. I downloaded a DC-6B from the CalClassics site and "borrowed, from the aircraft.cfg, the [propeller] section and the .air file.

 

I now have good reverse thrust with plenty of backward movement testing on the runway.

 

Next test will be a short flight landing on a longer runway to give me some time to shove the prop lever down and the apply throttles after the nose wheel touches down.

[napamule2]

I used the Nardi air file with the JBK DC-6 V2.0 (2009) and it worked. Too much reverse as a matter of fact. It flew ok, but not enough flap lift. Lands ok and reverse did stop it quick enough. I backed it up into a hangar and shut er down. Will work on it later. And there is no reverse sound (I used the DC-3 sound) so need to find reverse sound (turbo prop?). And the props are black. It's also tail heavy.

Chuck B

Napamule

[il88pp]

hi,

I don't have a fix your plane. I just looked for one that worked, so you can look at the differences and find a fix. file is starli22.zip

 

I tried creating reverse-pitch-thrust in the Goose. But I don't know how to add a "reverse pitch" section with the airfile editor AirEd.

AirEd can changes the values in a section, but there's no "add section" option.

I installed FSEdit last night, to see if that would allow edits. But that doesn't run.

( error is: Unable to start because MFC70.dll is missing) (I tried the recommended "reinstal vcredistx86" but that didn't help.).

 

il88pp.

 

btw, what zipfile is that dc6 you started the thread about? from what site?

[mrzippy]

 

btw, what zipfile is that dc6 you started the thread about? from what site?

 

dc6_v20x.zip This is the JBK DC-6 that I'm using.

[GDALE14853]

As Mr Zippy, I also have the file "dc6_v20x.zip", d/loaded from flightsim.com library.

 

And my apologies for the 'top-gun' error (I did mention I'm a bit of a novice, didn't I)

 

Thanks again to you all for all the help and advice!

 

I'd still like to see if I can find a way to define one of the Saitek switches to initiate the reverse pitch, but I can live with the F2 if not.

 

Happy flying!

 

G