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GPS and maps question


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Annnnddd...

What do you do when the GPS fails at the worst moment? The electrical system goes out, the batteries go dead (I KNOW I packed some...), etc.

 

I don't know that they're a requirement per se, but a very very good idea.

Did you try checking the FAA regs to see?

 

Have fun!

Pat☺

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Had a thought...then there was the smell of something burning, and sparks, and then a big fire, and then the lights went out! I guess I better not do that again!

Sgt, USMC, 10 years proud service, Inactive reserve now :D

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The FAA isn't quite that specific. 14CFR Part 91 covers that information. 91.103 says:

 

91.103 Preflight action.

 

Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar with all available information concerning that flight. This information must include—

 

(a) For a flight under IFR or a flight not in the vicinity of an airport, weather reports and forecasts, fuel requirements, alternatives available if the planned flight cannot be completed, and any known traffic delays of which the pilot in command has been advised by ATC;

 

(b) For any flight, runway lengths at airports of intended use, and the following takeoff and landing distance information:

 

(1) For civil aircraft for which an approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual containing takeoff and landing distance data is required, the takeoff and landing distance data contained therein; and

 

(2) For civil aircraft other than those specified in paragraph (b)(1) of this section, other reliable information appropriate to the aircraft, relating to aircraft performance under expected values of airport elevation and runway slope, aircraft gross weight, and wind and temperature.

 

So this is a catchall. There are additional things they say in the AIM and other places (probably other spots in the regs, too) that reinforce this. So yes, you can get by with electronic charts (downloaded before flight, not accessed online in flight) but, as Pat says, it's not necessarily a good idea.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Larry N.

As Skylab would say:

Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science!

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So yes, you can get by with electronic charts (downloaded before flight, not accessed online in flight) but, as Pat says, it's not necessarily a good idea.

Well, I'm sure we don't hear about all the times that the electronics we use for such things, tablets, smart-phones, GPS, whatever, work properly, but we sure hear about the times they DON'T work.

Having been an e-tech my entire working life, I can say for a certainty that the trons will fail you when you need them most, and release the magic blue smoke all electronics actually function with.

Either that, or the trons will simply run out unexpectedly, just from sheer spite, or because the gremlins eat them all, leaving the device about as useful as a small, flat, rock.

 

Seriously, though, like i ever am, why chance it? I don't know about you, but I sure don't trust my brain to hold all the information a flight may require. A paper chart, or printed version of a POH, are small, light insurance policies to cart around in your flight bag. Just like a few pens, notepads, some various batteries, a flashlight or two, an E-6B, and so on.

That way, WHEN, not if, when, the electronics fail, you're not SOL, and wondering where you are, and how to contact a tower. ANY tower...

Or maybe where all your instruments went. They were there a second ago, then POOF...all the lights went out and all the instruments just...vanished. Must have been evil magic.

 

Have fun!

Pat☺

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Had a thought...then there was the smell of something burning, and sparks, and then a big fire, and then the lights went out! I guess I better not do that again!

Sgt, USMC, 10 years proud service, Inactive reserve now :D

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Yeah, I would want to have charts on board even if I use a GPS. In fact, I would have all kinds of other stuff on board in case I manage to crash land and survive. I just wanted to know if the FAA mandates you have charts on board a GPS equipped plane or not.
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In fact, I would have all kinds of other stuff on board in case I manage to crash land and survive.

If you want, I can post a link to the downloads for the Army and Navy's survival kit contents. Both in their survival vests, and in the ejection seat seat-pan.

 

Pretty useful info if you're assembling your own kit. Some items you may not be able to access, due their being military items unavailable to the public, but most of what I read about them looks like stuff you can get at you local camping supply store. Or Surplus shop. Whatever.

 

Have fun!

Pat☺

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Had a thought...then there was the smell of something burning, and sparks, and then a big fire, and then the lights went out! I guess I better not do that again!

Sgt, USMC, 10 years proud service, Inactive reserve now :D

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I guess I should have made it clear I'm not a real life pilot. And the current FAR prohibits me from flying. I actually wrote a letter to President Trump about adding a stipulation, but I haven't heard back. Although, that letter was about all kinds of other stuff that this country needed to have fixed. I'm going to write another letter and just strictly keep to the topic of aviation.

 

I would love nothing more than to fly for a living, but I have sadly been diagnosed with schizophrenia. You would never know it if you met me. Frankly I think it's BS. It's a long story. But the FAR prohibits those with any form of mental health issue from flying. As it stands now I don't even think I could fly a crop duster. What I proposed was that if I can demonstrate proficiency in aeronautical knowledge, knowing how to operate the aircraft, reading charts, SIDS, STARS and all that and if my physiologist signs off on it for a medical, I don't see why I should be precluded from flying. At least private for God sakes.I know my therapist would sign off on it.

 

 

LMAO! Hell! I saw on the news that the FAA is making it so that air traffic controllers can easily get a job! Unreal! That's a recipe for disaster.

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I misunderstood! I apologize.

 

Still, nifty see what the various services consider essential for survival, and the different loadouts the use for different environments. Arctic, cold weather, hot weather, over-water, etc etc.

That's why I downloaded them. I'm just nosey. Amazing the pubs you can find on the net these days :)

 

Anywho, sorry about the misunderstanding.

I have a complete survival set up for both my wife and I. Being a former Marine, I like to be ready, just on the off chance...

I do live in spitting distance of several live volcanoes, and the San Andreas fault line, after all. :cool:

Ya never know...

Pat☺

Pat☺

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Had a thought...then there was the smell of something burning, and sparks, and then a big fire, and then the lights went out! I guess I better not do that again!

Sgt, USMC, 10 years proud service, Inactive reserve now :D

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I misunderstood! I apologize.

 

Still, nifty see what the various services consider essential for survival, and the different loadouts the use for different environments. Arctic, cold weather, hot weather, over-water, etc etc.

That's why I downloaded them. I'm just nosey. Amazing the pubs you can find on the net these days :)

 

Anywho, sorry about the misunderstanding.

I have a complete survival set up for both my wife and I. Being a former Marine, I like to be ready, just on the off chance...

I do live in spitting distance of several live volcanoes, and the San Andreas fault line, after all. :cool:

Ya never know...

Pat☺

Pat☺

 

Have you considered a Sat phone? They sell them on eBay along with pre-paid calling cards. I'd have one of those personally. I'd also have a back up hand held GPS and a back up hand held aircraft radio.

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Have you considered a Sat phone? They sell them on eBay along with pre-paid calling cards. I'd have one of those personally. I'd also have a back up hand held GPS and a back up hand held aircraft radio.

 

Eventually, paper charts will be about as much use as ti.ts on a bull. But not all aircraft are capable of running a GPS and not all pilots have the funds.

Having carted around half a hundredweight of paper charts in a pilot bag for most of my flying life I have recently switched to a `tronic handset but still can't quite put paper charts out to pasture. Although I have dumped the paper POH for the types I fly most frequently as the aircraft has them (DA42) or are significantly inaccurate (Cessna owners will know that thought). About as relevant as the promises of a politician in election year.

 

Paper charts can also by used as emergency insulation in cold climates, and if all else fails they act as kindling.

You can't shove a tablet down your trousers to keep you warm in winter and while they might give you all the information on how to start a fire, they cant be used to actually light one...

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And like I said, the batteries give out at THE worst possible moments.

I don't care if you have it on a charger in the cockpit, the charger will smoke-check, and the batteries will fail. Then the cockpit lighting will fail,every bulb burning out at the same instant.

THEN where will you be?

A flashlight in your teeth and a paper chart in your lap, that's where!

 

Believe it or not, things like that have actually happened.

 

I still think that all those paper charts you lug around are well worth the effort.

JUST in case. You know Justin Case, right? The guy no one ever wants to see, but shows up at lousy times...

 

And always, have fun!

Pat☺

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Had a thought...then there was the smell of something burning, and sparks, and then a big fire, and then the lights went out! I guess I better not do that again!

Sgt, USMC, 10 years proud service, Inactive reserve now :D

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I was thinking that if it was me I'd bring at least 4 packs of lithium batteries. When I prepare or ever do something, I think of contingencies and backups. I operate like this with my website and computers. Like for example, my website is backed up once every 24 hours, then about every 10 days it gets stored in a SFX encrypted archive which is then stored at a cloud backup, my local FTP, on two computers and on DVD/RW. Then that disk is stored in a fireproof safe.

 

I'm pretty damn paranoid about things and always think about a disastrous circumstance. I have some plans in place in case of nuclear attack right now. I have more than enough iodine, etc in case. One thing that really scares me is the super volcano in Yellowstone. The only, and I mean the only way you can prepare for that is if you have a lot of money to store food, have a water well and perhaps a wind turbine. Gas won't work, solar won't work. It's every man for himself at this point and it will be BRUTAL. I can't even imagine what society will turn into. I imagine it won't take very long for the herd to thin.

 

I was saying I'd have a hand help GPS and a backup aviation radio. I just saw a unit on the back cover I think it was of Plane & Pilot mag of a handheld radio that had a built-in GPS. I'd probably buy that. Even if you don't crash and survive, having a backup handheld radio is a good idea IMO.

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Consider an apocalyptic event: Sudden large solar flairs knocking out many GPS or other satellites with 4,000 flights airborne; this may actually not be that far-fetched. More unlikely though in the near future: EMP bombs dropped on the U.S. or elsewhere.
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Yeah, I fear at present we are too reliant on GPS. There was a chip being developed by DARPA that was like a mini INS that could augment GPS. It isn't perfect, but I would love to see the day when farm tractors and damn near everything else has this chip.
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Yeah, I fear at present we are too reliant on GPS. There was a chip being developed by DARPA that was like a mini INS that could augment GPS. It isn't perfect, but I would love to see the day when farm tractors and damn near everything else has this chip.

 

The US military, and allies, is aware of the vulnerability of the GPS system and trains to handle failures and blackouts.

 

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/17987/usaf-is-jamming-gps-in-the-western-u-s-for-largest-ever-red-flag-air-war-exercise

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That's all fine and well, but isn't addressing the civilian use of GPS.

 

Well, seeing as many pieces of technology start life in the military, like GPS itself, paying attention to what they do may provide insight into what will happen on the civilian side. Astronavigation, for example, could make a re-appearance with more modern and automated implementations than the traditional sextant.

 

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/17207/sr-71s-r2-d2-could-be-the-key-to-winning-future-fights-in-gps-denied-environments?iid=sr-link1

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Maybe not for phones, but it would work well for ships, vehicles and aircraft and would be more independent that relying on GPS/GLONASS or other external sources. An INS chip reliant on an external source for updates would still be vulnerable to something like a strong solar flare wiping out satellites and radio towers etc. over a wide area. Although a map and compass would be even more reliable at that point.
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Although a map and compass would be even more reliable at that point.

And their batteries never, ever, give out ;) :rolleyes: :D

 

Pat☺

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Had a thought...then there was the smell of something burning, and sparks, and then a big fire, and then the lights went out! I guess I better not do that again!

Sgt, USMC, 10 years proud service, Inactive reserve now :D

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