Relative and magnetic bearing???

Really struggling to grasp how to work out the difference between the two to then with it navigation :-/

I really didn't do well at all I'm maths (math to my US Counterparts) but I'm not going to just throw in the towel.

Has anyone got any basic concepts that would help? Yes I can change the OBS dial etc but if that fails etc I would like to still be able to work it out myself.

Thank you

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Lots of good information here http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/basic-nav-plotcourse.htm . Scroll down to the Magnetic Variation section. This is the best site I know of to teach the basics of "navigation stuff". Look around a bit. I think you'll like it. There is Cessna you can download in the What You Will Need/Aircraft tab which includes a somewhat funny-looking but very functional panel which is really useful when working through the instructional material. Have fun...

Doug

Doug

Lots of good information here http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/basic-nav-plotcourse.htm . Scroll down to the Magnetic Variation section. This is the best site I know of to teach the basics of "navigation stuff". Look around a bit. I think you'll like it. There is Cessna you can download in the What You Will Need/Aircraft tab which includes a somewhat funny-looking but very functional panel which is really useful when working through the instructional material. Have fun...

 

Doug

 

Doug

+1! A very useful skill needed by anyone who wants to be a realistic simmer. And thanks

M4TT2016 for reminding everyone.

Electronics such as the GPS are great. However, like being constantly alert for an emergency landing option, basic navigation in case the electronics fail, should be a special part of every pilot's skill set.

As a real pilot, I always assume the GPS will fail, the nav instruments will go U/S and the radio and transponder will follow them out of the door - I always have a line drawn on a map, a bearing to steer, with a stopwatch to count down the time. I also note visual features on my flightplan to cross-check location. Too many mistakes have been made with simple spelling errors in supposedly `foolproof` GPS navigation - nothing is fool proof to a sufficiently talented fool and when you combine that with Murphy's Law in the air...

That is situational awareness, and it involves looking out the window. There's a good reason IFR means I Follow Roads (or Railways).

That's where flying with charts comes in.

The real difference in "relative" vs "magnetic" bearing is that relative is in relation to the nose of your vehicle (the nose being a 0º bearing) while magnetic is in relation to magnetic north, but both are in relation to your current location. So if you were on a heading of magnetic north, your mag and relative bearings would be the same. But if your heading was 090º magnetic, an item that was straight ahead of you would be a 0º relative bearing but a 90º magnetic bearing.

By the same token, if the item/location you reference is straight off your right wing when on a 90º mag heading, then the relative bearing to that item would be 90º and the magnetic bearing would be 180º. Still, if your mag heading was 180º and the item was off your right wing, the relative would still be 90º, but the mag bearing would be 270º.

Hope this helps.

I am afraid I have to agree with the last two guys. Knowing how to navigate, even something as basic as "follow magnetic heading 255° for this many minutes, then turn to 045° for this many minutes..." and such like. On the ground, we called it Orienteering. Used to do a lot of it. Can be a lot of fun. In the air, it's heading vs time, on the ground, heading vs distance (steps, kilometers, whatever). We won't get into wind corrections here, although it can be critical to proper navigation in the air. The wind does affect your rate and direction of motion.

Remember that movement always is measured as a vector, with a distance and direction (angle). Since there is no accurate way to measure distance while flying, like you can on the ground, time is used. If you know how fast you are going, and how long you go that speed, you have a very good idea of distance. Rate times Time =Distance, right?

To answer your original question however. Magnetic Heading is which way are you pointed, in degrees, normally, away from Magnetic North. It uses the Magnetic North Pole of the Earth as a reference point.

RELATIVE Bearing is how many degrees (again, usually, although radians is another way to measure) from which way you are pointed right now as a reference. Thus Relative to your direction of motion. Imagine a compass rose imposed on an image of you, looking straight down on you from above, with 0° always staying directly ahead of you, whichever way you point.

So you can have a Mangetic Bearing of, just for example, 030°, meaning you are pointing 30° to the right of Magnetic North, but the airport you want is at a Relative Bearing of 340°, meaning it's 20° to the left of the direction you are pointed right now.

0° is directly ahead of YOU (Relative to you), 10° is 10° to your right, 350° is 10° to your left.

If you were to make a 20° left turn, the Relative Bearing would now be 0°, and your Magnetic Heading would now be 10° (030°-20°=10°).

Sometimes, at least in the Navy/Marine Corps, heading can be given as 20° Port, just as an example. But that's usually only used aboard ships.

I know, I ramble. Sorry. Hope it all help a little bit, though...

Pat☺

Relative bearing = direction in relation to you. (I.e. 3 o'clock, 11 oclock, etc. but in degrees.)

Magnetic bearing = same thing except in relation magnetic heading. (I.e. Flying heading 060 at your 3 o'clock magnetic bearing would be 150. Not 090, that would be relative bearing.)

Relative bearing - in relation to your "lubber's line" for the nautical types...

:)

Regards,

Scott

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Relative bearing - in relation to your "lubber's line" for the nautical types...

:)

 

Regards,

Scott

 

 

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AVAST, ye lubbers!

Drop the mains'l, let's go find us some booty!

ARRR!

:D :D :D

Pat☺

Hi Pat,

You're having entirely too much fun around here - sir !

;)

Regards,

Scott

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ARRR!

If I aint havin fun, I don't bother with it matey!

So hop yer tails aboard, and let's GO!

ARRRR!

:D :D

And no "Sir" am I! I was a Sergeant. I worked for a living, AND actually knew who my parents were. I'm no officer! Non-commissioned Officer, that's me. It didn't take an act of Congress to make ME a gentleman :D :D

I could go on and on about Officers, but I'll stop there before Rupert gets mad at me :p

Pat☺

ARRR!

If I aint havin fun, I don't bother with it matey!

So hop yer tails aboard, and let's GO!

ARRRR!

:D :D

 

And no "Sir" am I! I was a Sergeant. I worked for a living, AND actually knew who my parents were. I'm no officer! Non-commissioned Officer, that's me. It didn't take an act of Congress to make ME a gentleman :D :D

 

I could go on and on about Officers, but I'll stop there before Rupert gets mad at me :p

 

Pat☺

And right on cue, Sergeant guess where I flew today! Your favorite place in the whole world, Yuma!!:rolleyes: I made the trip from Santa Ana by the old route and even dropped into El Centro which looked about as i remembered it.

Yuma, now that's another story, it looks all gentrified with fancy concrete barracks and it was pretty cool today too. It was only 33C about ten minutes ago. Made me sentimental about the old days of going to the club early in the afternoon and watching the rest of you out on the tarmac and/or huddling in the line shack!;)

I must say cruising in the Honda Jet at 300knts with the a/c on beats doing 130 in a H-46 with the hatches open! :cool::cool:

Thank you all for your help, by jove I think I've got it lol. I decided to download PlanG. And I plotted a course around London using vors, that app is fantastic and in a matter of approx half an hour I understood how to navigate in the basic terms.

Whilst this may not sound particularly impressive, I can't emphasise how much I struggled at maths.

I find I learn better actually doing rather than reading about it. Guess that's just the way my brain works

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Really - check out that site Doug mentioned - it's probably one of the best things that ever happened to FS - it's a priceless treasure...

Regards,

Scott

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As a real pilot, I always assume the GPS will fail, the nav instruments will go U/S and the radio and transponder will follow them out of the door - I always have a line drawn on a map, a bearing to steer, with a stopwatch to count down the time. I also note visual features on my flightplan to cross-check location. Too many mistakes have been made with simple spelling errors in supposedly `foolproof` GPS navigation - nothing is fool proof to a sufficiently talented fool and when you combine that with Murphy's Law in the air...

 

That is situational awareness, and it involves looking out the window. There's a good reason IFR means I Follow Roads (or Railways).

 

That's where flying with charts comes in.

Exactly!;) Especially for those of us whose real world flying career ended before GPS was even dreamed of & LORAN not yet set up!:pilot:

Thank you all for your help, by jove I think I've got it lol.

Yaaay! Glad you've got it. Hope "it"'s not contagious, though :D

I find I learn better actually doing rather than reading about it. Guess that's just the way my brain works

Unless someone has an eidetic memory, that's the way most people work :) You can be told forever, but until you DO, usually a number of times, it's just words.

Whilst this may not sound particularly impressive, I can't emphasise how much I struggled at maths.

I understand, but bear in mind, the deeper you get into flying, the more math will sneak into things. Fuel usage, weight limitations, balance, crosswind components (basic trigonometery!) it's endless. Jut be aware and ready!

Really - check out that site Doug mentioned - it's probably one of the best things that ever happened to FS - it's a priceless treasure...

I agree totally. The site mentioned is fantastic. And you can do over and over until you've gotten a lesson down firmly. No limitations, no instructor yelling at you, or hitting you with his yard-stick...AHEM...

Rupert: BAD!! Mentioning that bad word in this forum. Y'know, the "Y" place. BLECH!!

33C IS pretty cool, but it's just early spring, still :D I have been one of "those guys" out on the line in the summer. You better wear gloves, or you touch a plane you can leave skin burned onto it!

I can't tell you what an improvement the shelters the Israeli's brought with them were. I noticed they spread throughout the military pretty fast. Gee, I wonder why...

Anyway, stay away from Yuma! Miserable, nasty place. They say the Devil went to Yuma once, but went home again. It was too HOT in Yuma for him!!

Pat☺

Yes I've been working on Doug's recommendation and taking it all in thank you. Oh haha, bring it all on I'm not afraid of it anymore. I relish the challenge :-)

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Thanks dspaulding,

I think Futurama is the best series ever, and I was wondering about that one. Cool video.

The link in post did not work for me. But this link did: http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/ .

Chuck B

Napamule

Right I'm really getting the hang of VOR, NDB and ADF navigation (all without wind at the moment so I can nail the process before I move onto wind correction).

However, I find that sometimes I appear too far out to capture the frequencies. Is that just bad flight planning or is that where radials and ded reckoning/pilotage comes into play?

I've read so much and watched so many things I think I've confused myself Hahaha.

Loving the learning curve though, nailed my first SIDS departure today and it felt gooood Hahaha

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Right I'm really getting the hang of VOR, NDB and ADF navigation (all without wind at the moment so I can nail the process before I move onto wind correction).

 

However, I find that sometimes I appear too far out to capture the frequencies. Is that just bad flight planning or is that where radials and ded reckoning/pilotage comes into play?

 

I've read so much and watched so many things I think I've confused myself Hahaha.

 

Loving the learning curve though, nailed my first SIDS departure today and it felt gooood Hahaha

 

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All ground based radio stations has reception limits. Can be either line of sight or just limited by the power of the station sending a strong enough signal. You're getting into the realm of reading the Airman Information Manual (AIM) that can be found through the FAA website through careful navigation. Here you can find specifics as far as reception ranges dependent on if it is a terminal, low, or high VOR. If you desire IFR airway navigation, enroute IFR charts is your friend. There you can find minimum altitudes to fly to maintain reception between specific stations on specific radials.

A good friend of mine has a couple of planes and a couple of boats (one small sailboat and an antique wooden motorboat). He's very cautious and I love flying with him because he's outrageously realistic and constantly keeps aware of what's going on. He and his wife also lived on a 40-foot sailboat for several years, so he's a very practical, down-to-earth guy. One of the first times I flew with him, he asked me if I was familiar with Murphy's law. I said yes and he asked me if I was also familiar with O'Riley's Rule. I wasn't.

He said O'Riley's Rule is that Murphy was an optimist!

Art - N4PJ

Leesburg, FL