Prepar3D Version 3 release information

[Bobsk8]

Lots of folks commenting over on Facebook about downloading V3 and some having no problems and others having the usual initial download issues....I learned that you don't have to delete 2.5 to have V3 on your system which sounds good to me...but I am sticking with FSX and V2.5 for the time being as they work fine for me...

 

Downloading a new software on the first day of release, is always a gamble in my opinion. There will be issues, patches, updates. etc for quite awhile I am afraid. Already some reports of OOMS from a few, on very short flights. Right now my 2.5 is running perfectly, so I am going to watch and wait.

[alverthein]

I agree Bob. but I admire those who are trying this new version....also...Froogle has a youtube video out showing his OOM..very interesting and he makes many compliments about the positives of V3....Happy Landings all...

[Bobsk8]

I agree Bob. but I admire those who are trying this new version....also...Froogle has a youtube video out showing his OOM..very interesting and he makes many compliments about the positives of V3....Happy Landings all...

 

In his video at the 6 minute mark, his V3 locked up and crashed. I have never had that happen with my 2.5.

[Jim Robinson]

Downloading a new software on the first day of release, is always a gamble in my opinion.

 

So what if it's the first day or the 20th day? If the patches are forthcoming and free what difference does it make? How does waiting change anything? If everything's gonna be fixed and groovy on 1/23/2016 one way or another how does it make any difference if you spend the money now or in January? You still spent $60 bucks on P3D v3.0 one way or the other right?

[mallcott]

So what if it's the first day or the 20th day? If the patches are forthcoming and free what difference does it make? How does waiting change anything? If everything's gonna be fixed and groovy on 1/23/2016 one way or another how does it make any difference if you spend the money now or in January? You still spent $60 bucks on P3D v3.0 one way or the other right?

 

The difference is that early adopters tend to be `hit and hope`. They discover the problems and issues that others then solve. Then we come in later and have the benefit of that learning curve. It's the smart thing to do, especially when support is thin on the ground.

[Bobsk8]

So what if it's the first day or the 20th day? If the patches are forthcoming and free what difference does it make? How does waiting change anything? If everything's gonna be fixed and groovy on 1/23/2016 one way or another how does it make any difference if you spend the money now or in January? You still spent $60 bucks on P3D v3.0 one way or the other right?

 

So far this morning on Facebook, a forum, and on the LM forum I have read about crashes of V3, add on's that won't work, FSuipc that won't install or work, Ezdok problems, GSX problems, CTD's when loading an aircraft or flight, what directory to install add on questions, windows errors, problems with joysticks, throttles that won't go past 70%, plane crashing immediately when V3 is loaded, etc..etc.. Who needs that, I certainly don't. Let the beta testers that have paid for the program and the programmers for V3 and the add on companies, sort it all out, which will probably not happen overnight. When it is ready for prime time, then I will spend my money and install it. Right now my 2.5 is running smoothly with zero problems, and I will be enjoying flying it my usual 2-3 hours a day.

[alverthein]

Good Morning folks,, I am all for the advancement of Simulation but I agree with Bobsk8...and in my case ...I am happy with Ver 2.5 and the more things seem to change...the more I use plain old FSX Gold...Why? cuz everything works including the PMDG engine reversers and speedbrakes with FSRecorder....take care all...al v

[Garrett67]

In his video at the 6 minute mark, his V3 locked up and crashed. I have never had that happen with my 2.5.

 

If you're referring to what I think you are, his aircraft over stressed. The software didn't crash. He yelled out "I crashed". Look at the top of the screen.

[Jim Robinson]

Well if they say it sucks on facebook it has to be true.

[vgbaron]

Well if they say it sucks on facebook it has to be true.

 

 

ROFLMAO!

 

@bobsk8 - Even though I bought it the first night, I agree with your stance. I enjoy the early tinkering and it gives me a better idea of how valid some of the "crashing" complaints are. Without any add-ons other than ASN, P3D3 runs flawlessly. The problems come from what some users do then. Waiting to shake out the initial bugs though is a good idea if you're not into dealing with the initial problems.

 

Vic

[mallcott]

So far, from what I've seen of supposedly `V3 Compatible` addons, precisely none are anything of the sort. Installers that load replacements for OE textures straight into the core files; folders introduced to core files; files intoriduced to core folders; problems with half-hearted conversions that clearly don't understand the changes `under the hood` or why Lockheed-Martin are recommending core files and folders remain untouched.

 

The clue was in the re-versioning: "Just because it was done that way before, doesn't mean you can do it that way now..."

 

As Vic notes, almost ALL problems noted in the outlying forums relate to stupid people doing stupid things with software. Some relate to stupid people listening to other stupid people about what to do with software. Still more relate to stupid people believing what they are being told by developers who are either duplicitous, or stupid. There are also stupid people having trouble with the basic installation, grasping the concept of a new product or which OS is actually supported - but fortunately they seem to be sticking to blaming L-M rather than coming here.

 

All Good.

 

In a forum like this we can only advise.

 

Wait

[alverthein]

Just saw this youtube video re P3D V3 vs V2 and I thought it was well done. Hope this works as I never posted a link before anyway if not, look it up on Google or Youtube...if anyone is interested in Prepar3d

[Bobsk8]

So far, from what I've seen of supposedly `V3 Compatible` addons, precisely none are anything of the sort. Installers that load replacements for OE textures straight into the core files; folders introduced to core files; files intoriduced to core folders; problems with half-hearted conversions that clearly don't understand the changes `under the hood` or why Lockheed-Martin are recommending core files and folders remain untouched.

 

The clue was in the re-versioning: "Just because it was done that way before, doesn't mean you can do it that way now..."

 

As Vic notes, almost ALL problems noted in the outlying forums relate to stupid people doing stupid things with software. Some relate to stupid people listening to other stupid people about what to do with software. Still more relate to stupid people believing what they are being told by developers who are either duplicitous, or stupid. There are also stupid people having trouble with the basic installation, grasping the concept of a new product or which OS is actually supported - but fortunately they seem to be sticking to blaming L-M rather than coming here.

 

All Good.

 

In a forum like this we can only advise.

 

Wait

 

From the reading I have done so far, it is apparent that LM didn't give this program to the developers early enough for them to figure out how they were going to handle porting their products into V3 properly. In addition, they weren't given enough info as to where their installers should put stuff when installing. One major add on provider, is basically saying, " We don't know what to do at this point". If you stick with default V3, you will be fine, but if you want to use all the stuff you were using in V2.5 at this point in time, lots of luck...Two or three months down the road, everything will probably be fixed. Right now, it's beta testing time.

[wwhiteside]

Fantastic video. Thank you.

[alverthein]

WWhiteside....also on the video is a site where one can buy a add on that with a couple "clicks" on your keyboard.,. loads all of the scenery into Ver 3 from Ver 2....the cost is something like under $12 as I recall.... The reason I have been posting this stuff is simply I am interested in Prepared as I like Version 2.5 and have Version 3 in my Cart...but don't have the "Guts" others have to go to Check Out yet...LOL...anyway..glad you liked the video as I did to...al v

[wwhiteside]

I will try it, thank you. I love P3D V2.5 and I see V3 is even better.

WW

[mallcott]

The issue as I see it is yes, LM didn't really give a `heads up` to the aftermarket early enough - probably the addon developers fault for not signing up to the beta, (although as L-M were extremely cagey about what was coming next - patch to 2.6 or whole new version I don't necessarily think all the blame is theirs) but also that several aftermarketers now seem to think they now better than Lockheed Martin and are just releasing `new` installers for the new sim that don't address any of the issues wrought by the changes in the new sim.

 

As an educational and professional services product provider, one might reasonably assume that L-M's release of the new product might be accompanied by several technical documents , even some research papers, where L-M explain the new `hooks` policy and the divided installer, explain in great detail what it means and how aftermarket developers can use the tools as a benefit to their creations.

Not six lines in a SDK that you have to have purchased the product to use...

 

 

As it currently stands, almost to a man the aftermarket sees it as a burden rather than opportunity. That's pretty sad, and something of an indictment of the state of the aftermarket. Frankly, they just don't seem very clever at this point with dummy-spitting, petulant posing and quick-fix solutions abounding.

 

The knock-on problem for us, P3D customers, is that no-one can say how long it will take to re-write installers that actually do take advantage of the new install channels, no-one can answer precisely what problems continuing to modify core files will create down the line (version updates and potentially additional elements brought to the market by L-M).

 

It's all very well saying that the aftermarket will sort these issues out, and I think they probably will, but putting a specific timescale on the activity? I think not.

 

Prepar3D is sold with a 60 day one time refund - can anyone here GUARANTEE all the aftermarket will have resolved their difficulties, understood the benefits and adapted their product within that time? Nope. So we, the customer, the professionals and the academics, are in a state of limbo as far as the advances of v3 are concerned.

 

That's why I strongly urge waiting.

 

Nothing wrong with 2.5 as a platform in the meantime, the changes in v3 are mostly incremental anyway, and until the developers of the products YOU value most can resolve installers that actually comply with L-M recommendations, or create a system that allows for reversion to those core files at any point to permit updates and new elements, you really, really, really don't want to bet on the aftermarket.

 

So here's the summary, as I see it:

 

1: Buy the sim, install it and fly it. Treat it like a NEW SIM and wait for addons to appear for it. Properly compliant addons.

 

2: Buy the sim, install it and fly it. Treat it like an updated version of 2.5 and gaily port over everything you can, to get you up and running with all your favourites as quickly as possible. You've most likely screwed the easy update route and will need to recognise that you will need to reinstall everything on a regular basis - and given the new element approach, probably far more often (L-M no longer need major version increments that justify a reinstall - they can upgrade 3.01, 3.05, 3.06, 3.08 before getting to 3.1). So, reinstall on a weekly basis sound appealing, at 5-15 hours a time, increasing as you add the volume of addons? Then you're good to go guinea pig.

2.1: You're other choice is to NOT be able to take advantage of those updates and be left in a sorry limbo as far as sub-version support is concerned. Basically: Your bed, you lie in it. Sample issue: FSUIPC updates "Pete Dowson is currently on vacation".

Case rests, your honour.

 

3: Wait. Things will rationalise within a timeframe (even though we can't know what that timeframe is?) and then you can buy into a workable, usable sim with support from those addons you must have, with problems resolved and capable of integration with the core such that you no longer screw the pooch for future updates.

 

In this cycle I don't see the 60-day refund as being of any benefit whatsoever. When you buy into it the second time you don't get the 60-day refund opportunity, unless you change version or do something devious like change your account.

 

I suppose the middle ground is to buy the monthly license, but you are still exposed to the issues in 2: above.

 

From my own perspective. I have a established a `critical mass` point at which I will install v3: I can run it alongside 2.5 with no crossover or portover. But I just dont see the point at this time - the items on my essential list are all likely to show problems - they've got rushed portover installers, dodgy install methods or, in one case, a total head-in-the-sand attitude to the new platform and its requirements.

 

I'm not sure I want their products in my new sim when they don't seem to have the intellectual capacity to expand with it.

 

The basic release is fine and dandy, but frankly, I'm underwhelmed by much of the new stuff - The avatar mode cannot interact with even the default aircraft; movement is stilted and unlifelike. Speedtrees ditto. I fully expect these things to be refined in time by core element updates AND the aftermarket, but why would I waste my actual simming time being a paid-for beta tester for L-M ? They've got more money than god, and if they want me to pay again then I don't buy in to Version 1 (that's what v3 really is), because i'm exposed to all their little flaws and failures. At my cost.

 

So I wait. you should too.

 

But I know many here won't. So I say to them: Welcome to being alone in the sim world. There is no-one to help you.

[Bobsk8]

Another video .

[alverthein]

Mallcott, Thanks for your explanation...as I said ...I am okay with V2,5 and have all my planes running fine....I can wait and that is what I am going to do...thanks again...al (No Guts) verthein...lol

[Penz]

But I know many here won't. So I say to them: Welcome to being alone in the sim world. There is no-one to help you.

If many do it they aren't really alone are they? :p

[mallcott]

If many do it they aren't really alone are they? :p

 

If only it were true. Ask yourself how few actually answer the manys' problems - here, there or elsewhere. You can be in a room full of people and be alone.

 

You are certainly alone as a simmer when you have no support from other simmers, the developers or the platform creators, no matter how many of you there are... and checking out the volume forums across the worldwearyweb I see ratios of self-induced problems to outsourced solutions in the near-hundreds to one for P3d V3.

 

They are all alone, together. Ah, philosophy on a Saturday. Can't say this forum isn't educational! :rolleyes:

[n4gix]

As an educational and professional services product provider, one might reasonably assume that L-M's release of the new product might be accompanied by several technical documents , even some research papers, where L-M explain the new `hooks` policy and the divided installer, explain in great detail what it means and how aftermarket developers can use the tools as a benefit to their creations.

Not six lines in a SDK that you have to have purchased the product to use...

But I know many here won't. So I say to them: Welcome to being alone in the sim world. There is no-one to help you.

For Pete's sake, just how much more detailed could L-M make their documents:

 

Add-on Configuration:

http://prepar3d.com/SDKv3/LearningCenter/add-ons/add-on_configuration.html

 

Add-on Instructions for Developers:

http://prepar3d.com/SDKv3/LearningCenter/add-ons/add-on_instructions_for_developers.html

 

Where did you get the idea that the SDK is only available to purchasers? It's available for FREE to anyone who wants to study and/or use it. It's also available on-online here:

 

http://www.prepar3d.com/SDKv3/LearningCenter/LearningCenter.php

[airforce2]

Another perspective that hasn't been raised is the reality that many developers do not, and have not for a long time, conformed to the standards put forth by the platform developer (Microsoft/L-M). There are (and have been for time immemorial) many, many add-ons that rely on non-standard interfacing with the core sim...expecting that to get cleaned up overnight is unrealistic, especially considering that a lot of software wouldn't run at all if its creators were unable to hook into the core in creative, but nonstandard ways.

 

Some are suggesting an inevitable implosion of your P3D V3 installation if you dare to deviate from the new L-M file structure guidelines. I disagree. Worse case, if you install using the V2 file structure, you're just where you were before V3 came around...an update could require you to install some or all of your add-ons, just like with previous versions. And many good add-ons may never be updated for the V3 file structure, like some of the orphaned software whose dev has departed the fix, or some older FSX stuff that works great but won't be updated any time soon (if ever). One great example is the FlyTampa FSX version of Chicago Midway that's never been officially supported in any version of P3D yet runs like a champ on V3 here in its old familiar file structure. Should I do without these great add-ons to preserve the integrity of the new guidelines, or is it worth the horrible risk of a reinstall to be able to keep them around? An easy answer for me.

 

I tire of those that advocate sitting patiently by and letting others do all the work on discovering and fixing compatibility issues, as if there's something noble or wise about waiting to benefit from the work of others--while all the while talking smack about the same guys who are actually doing the work. If anyone wants to know why there's a dearth of people willing to help out, I'd suggest this sort of unproductive hostility is high on the list of factors to blame. I have two pages running of lessons learned on porting add-ons to V3, and I doubt they'll be leaving my desk due to this aforementioned hostility and a sudden and inexplicable tide of sentiment in various forums that prohibits any discussion of the kinds of interoperability hacks we've shared together for years now. It's good to have the skills to do things myself, I guess.

 

I think that over time, most add-ons for P3D v3 and beyond will migrate to the new structure. But waiting...maybe for months...for devs to rewicker their installers and in some cases the software itself when it works perfectly OK when installed as before doesn't make sense to me. I've used tons of add-ons that relied on nonstandard interfacing to the sim before...PMDG, LevelD, ORBX, UTX, GEX...the list is long and distinguished. No reason for me to fear the reaper over a non-standard add-on now.

 

I'm having a blast with this new version...not one crash in three intensive days of experimenting with all sorts of legacy add-ons. You sideliners don't know what you're missing!

 

Cheers

 

Bob Scott

[vgbaron]

Well said Bob!

 

Just too many people do not understand that it is a recommended policy NOT a mandatory one. Some of the rumors are absolutely untrue and ludicrous.

 

Vic

[alverthein]

vgbaron ...There are heavy discussions on Facebook and other places about P3D including photos of the V3.. I am not a techie by any means so all I can do is follow simmers all over the world who post their experiences either here or someplace else....V3 looks good to me...but I just flew a PMDG T7 from Rome to Qatar about 2200 miles in V 2.5....with beautiful scenery, ASN ORBX and no problems....so I really like all the discussion pro or con to help the rest of us decide what to do with what we have and can afford.... I don't agree with simmers being called "Stupid" by some people (not You) as most of us had to start with a lot of questions and almost no answers...