Power Supply

[Luke]

dunno, when you read specs for the video cards on newegg, it tells you the required power which is 500+ for GTX 970 cards. I'm not the one to clarify, I am only learning ))

 

Sure, but keep in mind that since the video card manufacturers know that power supplies are of vastly different quality and how much power they send over the 12V lines they typically radically over-spec the power supplies to ensure that things will work. If you get high quality power supplies you don't have that issue.

 

Cheers!

 

Luke

[alexzar14]

I went with EVGA 850 Supernova G2, just followed Don on all occounts with few minor revisions concerning the case and something else minor.

 

Two parts just arrived, Supernova PSU and the SSD 850 Pro. Damn it it's so cold I am being worried it didn't damage (won't be able to check it until this evening).

That poor motherboard will be exposed to this cold during delivery? ouch!

[fxsttcb]

As per discussion here in this thread, 600 is too little.

For a basic system like utragc's, as Luke stated; 600w should be more than sufficient.

That's much too little for a high end overclock with nine HP fans, a large custom h20 loop, additional h2o pump, with a max OC GTX 970/980 and RAID10(4 hds).

Lots of additional capability is necessary to keep voltage droop to a minimum when pushing a system hard.

******************************

Two parts just arrived, Supernova PSU and the SSD 850 Pro. Damn it it's so cold I am being worried it didn't damage (won't be able to check it until this evening).

That poor motherboard will be exposed to this cold during delivery? ouch!

Most components have a pretty low storage temp. If the packages are really, really cold, as in freezing temps, don't unpack 'em. Rapid temp changes can have an affect. Let them sit in a cool dry space overnight...Don

 

Sorry, alexzar14! I must have got the last GTX 970. I also bought G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3 2400 10-12-12-31 F3-2400C10Q-16GZH

Quad Channel for my ASUS RIVE X79 board.

Both are installed, overclocked, and tweaked to the best of my ability.

Ran a bunch of before/after FSXMark11 benches.T

The fast RAM picked up a couple FPS or better and the GTX 970 another couple FPS or better. Overall my 5 run average is 4-5 FPS better, depending on how hard I push the GTX-970.

With my everyday FSX settings it now rarely goes below my locked @ 30!...Don

[alexzar14]

I got all components except the case and a vid card.

The 970 (2974-KR) is available, not available is the 970 FTW (2978-KR).

Either I install my present 8800 GTS with a 64-bit driver and wait for the 970 FTW, or go ahead and buy the basic 970 (74-KR).

You got yourself an FTW (78-KR), correct?

[Luke]

For a basic system like utragc's, as Luke stated; 600w should be more than sufficient. That's much too little for a high end overclock with nine HP fans, a large custom h20 loop, additional h2o pump, with a max OC GTX 970/980 and RAID10(4 hds). Lots of additional capability is necessary to keep voltage droop to a minimum when pushing a system hard.

 

I'd be really interested to see how much power that really consumes.

 

FWIW I plugged the Kill-A-Watt in just now. On boot, the machine cranks up to around 175W from the wall (so let's assume 140W going to the components). Right now, with just Chrome and Eclipse J2EE IDE running, it's consuming a whopping 70W. I fired up FSX and put it into VC mode in the C172 at KSEA, and I couldn't get the thing to consume over 180W.

 

Keep in mind this is from the wall, so the power supply is consuming something for its own purposes and it's only 80% efficient. It means that the Haswell/760/840EVO combinations are perhaps drawing 155W out of the power supply. I might run Prime95 plus a video benchmark to truly try and top it, but it was a pretty eye-opening experience and frankly quite surprising.

 

I'm not suggesting that you need a smaller PS for your purposes, but I am very curious to see what kind of additional load spinning rust places, as well as what the fans themselves consume - from what I've read 140mm fans burn between 1 and 2W each.

 

Might be an interesting experiment, and if you're conscious of saving money on electricity a Kill-A-Watt isn't a bad tool to have around the house in general.

 

Cheers!

 

Luke

[fxsttcb]

I got all components except the case and a vid card.

The 970 (2974-KR) is available, not available is the 970 FTW (2978-KR).

Either I install my present 8800 GTS with a 64-bit driver and wait for the 970 FTW, or go ahead and buy the basic 970 (74-KR).

You got yourself an FTW (78-KR), correct?

Yep! EVGA GTX-970 FTW.

I did a bunch of testing on my FTW card. I used EVGA PrecisionX 16 to overclock it and downclock it to the 4GB reference card's GPU speed.

After 10 FSXMark11 runs each, of the FTW OC'd, FTW default, and FTW downclocked, using my everyday FSX settings, my MAX Average FPS difference was 1.05FPS. My MIN Average FPS difference was 0.55FPS.

 

Bottom Line: IMO, the FTW may not be worth it to many folks.

Food for thought:

I do like the enhanced cooling, and factory overclock. EVGA doesn't say anything about it, but, I wouldn't be surprised if they are "binning" the GPUs for their top end cards...Don

[alexzar14]

Thank you Don!

I'm ordering a regular version and call it a day.

[alexzar14]

So upset, the case will take a month to arrive.

the components are just sitting in a box 2nd week now.

[fxsttcb]

So upset, the case will take a month to arrive.

the components are just sitting in a box 2nd week now.

I'd cancel the order.

Amazon has it in stock and you can usually expect delivery within 5 days...Don

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BCXF6MG/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=

[alexzar14]

Will be here on monday, UPS delayed it. Ground delivery across US that takes over a week, I wonder if a delicate computer-related item can handle such stress.

And now it's in a cold warehouse for 2 days until monday.

Kinda irritating.

 

Meanwhile I got the FSX CDs and playing with that on my present PS for the time being.

[alexzar14]

Don, a problem, it doesn't start up, there is no power.

When plugging a power cable to the PSU, a light inside the ethernet-cable inlet appears for a second and then extinguishes.

 

Either I wired the on/off panel wrong or the motherboard is defective. Can you please share the diagram with details? I assume white cables are "grounds"? Otherwise should I get a new motherboard?

 

The specs are same as you listed, ASRock OC Formula with 850 Supernova. XAF-X case.

[fxsttcb]

Lets do a couple tests.

Unplug the PSU, Disconnect the case's wires completely from the mobo.

Leave the Case speaker plugged in.

Verify correct jumper and switch positions, for your peripherals.

Use the manual to determine positions.

Install only ONE Memory stick(The slot chosen, should be according to the manual).

 

Plug the PSU in, turn it on, and use the mobo's "Start" button. Does it run? Beep?

 

No? Unplug the PSU and swap RAM. Plug the PSU in, turn it on, "Start". Run? Beep?

 

If not you'll need to test the PSU. Do you have a multimeter??

Be patient. Though it can be daunting, it isn't hard.

 

Cheapo multimeter: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Innova-3300-Equus-3300-Hands-free-Digital-Multimeter/14644665

 

Radio Shack also has MMs starting ~$15...Don

[alexzar14]

Ok Don, patient I will be.

Forget about the money, I panic because I can't do the FSX, and I already started buying software. I even had a crazy idea buying a Dell system to play FSX meanwhile.

Just tried it on my current system, got a taste of it and now want more. My system however can't do much more than General aviation with no weather.

 

 

I'll try that when I get home, I have more questions now that also may be a problem:

 

1. the Z97 has an unusual CPU power connections I never dealt with before:

ATX12V1 and ATX12V3, both 8-pin. Do I have to utilize (plug into) all of these with 2 CPU power cables and 4x4pin connectors?

 

2. RAM, I typically had a single pair and used a config A1 & B1 (slot 1 and 3, the same color), is this ok for ASRock mobo? Or is it A1 & A2?

 

 

other comments:

 

3. PSU, I tried two PSUs, 850 and the 750 I bought last month, neither gave me power so I assume it isn't a CPU.

 

4. All mobos I had before had a light on it that was lit when power was available (when power cable was connected). This mobo doesn't have it, which is a minus. No way to know there is power or not.

[fxsttcb]

1) Yes. The twin 8 pin(2-4x4, each) should be connected.

 

2) A2 & B2 are listed as prefered, but, A1 & B1 are ASRock's 2nd recommendation.

Use A2 for a single stick.

 

3) If 2 different PSUs didn't work, then it most likely isn't that.

 

4) According to the pic at newegg, there are status lights adjacent to the Start button.

 

I noticed the mobo has dual BIOS(A & B). Try the other BIOS via the onboard switch...Don

[alexzar14]

ok I unplugged everything except board power and a vid card and tried it with 1 memory stick, I heard no beep but a click, and there was power finally, the fans (cpu and case fans) are on! Jampers are a 1 & 2.

Then I added a second memory stick, to same results. So, that's some progress. The case power button also works. The video card's fans however spin for a second and stop. The monitor doesn't show BIOS and no numeric report is displayed on the mobo.

 

But, when I connect a CPU power, the thing starts for 3 seconds and shuts downs.

Without the CPU connected to PSU, the power stays on and the fans are spinning. With the CPU connected to PSU, the power is on for 2 seconds (fans start spinning) and then shuts down (fans stop). Both start and shutting are accompanied by a clicking sound.

 

Two problems to verify:

 

1. CPU, something isn't right and it still may be the mobo's fault.

We have CPU1 and CPU2 power cables, does it matter where they are connected? - ATX12V1 and ATX12V3, which goes where if it matters.

 

2. Video card, why were the fans spinning only for 2 seconds when power was continuously on? Also, why wasn't the monitor showing up the bios? My understanding is under any condition the monitor should go on displaying mobo info even if no power is connected to the CPU, doesn't it?

I'm gonna test the video card on the other computer, if I figure out how to remove it. The card is so big it is blocking the access to the lock so I cannot unlock it.

[fxsttcb]

Headway! A couple of things to clarify:

When you say "when I connect a CPU power", do you mean GPU?

CPU is Central Processing Unit. ie: i7-4790K

GPU is Graphics Processing Unit. ie: GTX 970

 

CPU1 and CPU2 power cables? Are these the 4+4 on the PSU?

If so, it should not matter, but I'd do CPU1 to ATX12V1, and CPU2 to ATX12V3.

 

Your video card's default setting may be zero fan speed with zero load.

The fans will spin when loaded, but, quit soon.

Verify that the PCIe ON/OFF Switches are all "ON".

If they are, it may be that the Video card PCIe slot needs to be configured in BIOS.

 

I've had to use the onboard graphics in the past to get my rig to boot.

Remove the GTX 970.

The Z97 OC Formula only has one onboard HDMI video connection.

You will need a monitor, or, TV, that has an HDMI input for best results.

 

If that gets you a boot screen, go into BIOS(delete key) and configure the PCIe bus(if necessary). While you are there set up all of your drive configurations and boot priorities.

That board's BIOS is quite comprehensive, so, start with "Load UEFI Defaults" and progress from there...Don

[alexzar14]

Headway! A couple of things to clarify:

When you say "when I connect a CPU power", do you mean GPU?

 

No Don, the i7 CPU, the ATX12V1/V3.

The power shuts down under these 3 conditions:

1. when both CPU cables are connected to ATX12V1 and ATX12V3.

2. when one cable is connected to ATX12V1.

3. When connected to ATX12V3.

 

Tonight I will try to remove the card, and connect the monitor to onboard graphics.

The thing is, the power goes out in 2 seconds when the CPU i7 is connected.

This in some way relates to CPU power.

[fxsttcb]

It does sound like the mobo is DOA.

If you can, make sure all 16 pins on your PSU's two 4+4 connectors are at 12V.

That EVGA 850 is a single 12v rail design, so that should be moot.

 

Log all of your different attempts, so, you have a quick reference.

Before doing an RMA, go thru ASRock's FAQ list to see if there is something there.

No help? Contact ASRock support and be as detailed as you can be.

http://event.asrock.com/tsd.asp

 

If they don't respond in a day or so, do the RMA with your supplier(Newegg, Amazon, etc).

Don't let the supplier's RMA period expire...Worms...Don

 

OH! BTW, Make doggone sure you don't bend any of the CPU socket pins when you remove the CPU. Bent CPU socket pins will instantly nullify an RMA...

[alexzar14]

Don we have a major progress, computer is running!

on/off via mobo or case power/reset button. I took the CPU out to see if the socket was damaged or not, and found a screw there that might have been causing the problem or the shorting.

 

Ok so the thing works, now we have another (last) problem to resolve: I wasn't able to install Windows on either of my available drives, "Expending Windows" status stays at 0%, then says "was not able this and that...corrupt CD..." and installation stops. Either the disc is damaged (I did indeed scratch it accidentally) or god knows what else. Will order another Windows copy. Oh boy...

We are progressing, nevertheless.

[loki]

Ok so the thing works, now we have another (last) problem to resolve: I wasn't able to install Windows on either of my available drives, "Expending Windows" status stays at 0%, then says "was not able this and that...corrupt CD..." and installation stops. Either the disc is damaged (I did indeed scratch it accidentally) or god knows what else. Will order another Windows copy. Oh boy...

We are progressing, nevertheless.

 

Try calling Microsoft about getting replacement media, rather than a full copy. I know they used to do this for at least some products. Would basically be the cost of a disc itself and shipping, but no new product key (you would use the one you have).

[alexzar14]

Will do.

I tried to install Windows XP, but it wasn't recognized, there was no boot with Windows XP in.

With Win 7 installation does run, with XP does not.

[alexzar14]

Ok the computer is running finally.

I was happy not long, the thing is having problems I think having to do with a video card or its drivers.

I installed FSX and 2 addons: UTX USA-2 and PMDG 737NGX, the performance is good (constant 20 in JFK and around the city with settings at 4/5 of max) so it seems its a good hardware but something isn't right. Sometimes the fps drop to 2.5-3 and freeze the sim, sometimes it makes strange noises (with or without FSX running) and slows down the comp. The scenery isn't well displayed, I can hardly see anything of the UTX I've seen 2 days ago on my old PC. In other words it is not capable of FSX and it isn't in good shape generally, without FSX running.

Sometimes I can't restart it, the mobo displays error 96 which is something having to do with a VGA card.

I have 970 GTX installed into the top PCI-E slot.

The drivers are off the CD that came with the card.

[fxsttcb]

Here's the latest driver for your GTX 970. It is the one I'm using...Don

http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/79891/en-us

[alexzar14]

Will try this evening. If that won't work, I'll move the card down to PCI-E x8 from x16 it is in right now.

If that won't work, we'll have to think of something else.

 

Overall I am very excited, solid 20 fps with PMDG 737 in JFK with display settings at 4/5!! Not bad. It was 7-8 fps on my old PC, which had big problems with virtual cockpits. I also tried JustFlight DC-6 (I was always tempted by that software), it doesn't really have that much of a programming there, but a killer VC (virtual cockpit) that brought fps down and could even freeze after 40 minutes of flying. Funny, LDS-767 was fine at 14 fps despite being a comprehensive software. I assume the good performance was due to its somewhat old and simple (by today standards) virtual cockpit visuals, although I still love this software (I didn't like the Captainsim version as much, but I love CS's classics, I already bought all of them hopping I would be flying any day now).

[alexzar14]

ok, problem resolved moving the card down to PCI-E x8.

Problem resolved, display improved, fps dropped. Interestingly it was faster with the card in the x16 slot (until it froze within few minutes). We'll have to live with that.

So we are all set, there may still be some general questions I will be addressing in this thread.

Already one: flying around NYC yesterday (in Cessna), the system all of a sudden slowed and the Norton reported the CPU usage was 100%. It didn't froze and I was able to close the FSX, only then the CPU usage went back to normal. This was upsetting, I was like.... "i7 4790K!, give me a break already!!" -)))) Seriously though. That happened once, then I flue in PMDG 737 and Airbus X and it was ok. Airbus X was 20fps (great software they did!!) and PMDG 737 was 14 fps (11-14 on the ground, no matter the display settings, less dense/more dense), a bit disappointing but I won't blame the hardware for it, it is the 737 software itself.

What can we do before we go into overclocking? Does it make sense to shut down some unused programs like we did in Win XP? I'm not familiar with Win 7 so I don't even know where to begin. I did edit the fsx.cfg per this forum.