WOAI Has Stopped Working! I Suspect Alien Fairies have Stolen the Planes!

[mrzippy]

klax_pr_v3.zip and kavx.zip I am using both of these! I don't have a clue as to what's bogging down your WOAI.

[HoggyDog]

Thanks for the info I never realised that.

However it does have me stumped as when I first fire up FSX in free flight mode I do have plenty of AI traffic populating the airport.

 

I think you're right and the stuff I read (and reported above) was wrong. I went back to when I first installed WOAI and according to my posts and screenshots then, I got an airport full of planes when I first launched FSX.

 

Have you looked at the gate assignments for KLAX since you added then removed the add-on software, it could be a case of the gate assignments not reverting back to the default so you end up with only a few assigned gates.

My understanding is that the AI aircraft is only spawned if it has a gate assignment prior to it being spawned. That's why you don't get stacking for gates with AI traffic.

Darryl

 

Well, I don't know where to find gate assignments, but I doubt it's that because it's occurring at all airports, most of which have never had any addon scenery.

 

Doug

[darryl737]

Well, I don't know where to find gate assignments, but I doubt it's that because it's occurring at all airports, most of which have never had any addon scenery.

Doug

 

If you grab yourself a copy of airport design editor ( its freeware and a valuable resource ) you can call up any FSX airport and you will get a map of the entire airport. You can from that see what each gate assignment is ( GA, Parking, Gate, small, medium, or heavy ) by pointing over the marked gate.

There is a knock on effect with WOAI where if it cant spawn a flight from for example KATL to KLAX because of gate issues at one of those airports then that spawned flight wont exist at all and wont be spawned for its entire route.

I had this problem when I added some bad airport add-on to NZWN that changed some gate assignments which ended up knocking out most of my AI that at some point during their routes for that day would of took them to NZWN.

So if a route is NZAA to NZWN to NZCH to NZDN and then back again but WOAI cant get a gate for NZWN then the entire route wont be flown ( a bit like jet Blue ).

Like wise if a AIs flight plan gets messed up through some add-on and arrival and departure times get changed for that flight and the WOAI aircraft cant make the arrival or departure time the whole flight plan spawned for that day will not take place. Hence one bad airport will effect all airports because WOAI cancels the whole route for the day not just a leg of the route.

 

Darryl

[PhantomTweak]

Speaking of U2. Is there a payware U2? Oops! Hope the NSA doesn't have that (U2) in their catchphrase file!

 

I dunno about the NSA, but I always thought U2 was a pretty good band! But hey, just my opinion, which of course is the only one that doesn't stink ;D

 

Pat☺

[HoggyDog]

If you grab yourself a copy of airport design editor ( its freeware and a valuable resource ) you can call up any FSX airport and you will get a map of the entire airport. You can from that see what each gate assignment is ( GA, Parking, Gate, small, medium, or heavy ) by pointing over the marked gate.

 

OK, I got ADE, and after doing battle with it for 3 hours (because it couldn't find ANYTHING and I didn't have the Arial Narrow Bold font installed, and my SDK wasn't Kosher and... and... and... I FINALLY got it to launch with no disaster messages, and figured out how to load KLAX. This is what I got:

http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u484/Hoggy_Dog/ADE-KLAX.png

 

As you can see, there is no way to limit the view to "Gates" so what I'm looking at here is absolute sensory overload... zooming in to enlarge the gate areas woud help, but there's no zoom control. :( When I mouse over the little green blotches, which I assume are gates, they all appear to still be gates.

 

So what is the "error condition" I should be looking for? What would a green blotch say on mouseover if it were no longer a gate?

 

Also, based on what you said, I guess I have to do this for all of my addon airports... ::frowny face::

 

EDIT to add: Never mind. Can't open any addon airport with this. When I select "Open Airport" it restricts me to ADE project file types and will not allow me to change that, and so I tried "Open Airport from BGL" but the airport I wanted to open (KLAS) has like 50 bgl files and ADE won't support multi-select. When I tried to open one of the 50 bgl's, ADE said "this file does not contain an airport so ADE will not open it."

 

There may be a tutorial somewhere, but right now I think I'll go do something less infuriating like solving world hunger. I'm pretty sure my blood pressure just hit 800/500 with this so-unintuitive-even-a-smart-guy-can't-open-an addon-airport software. :mad: :mad:

[darryl737]

The gates for your commercial AI should have a designation of small, medium or heavy. If it says GA then that gate wont accept commercial AI. Being you cant open the add-on its a bit of a moot point.

If you can nail down the last airport you added before you noticed the problem then at least you will know what the problem airport may be. Big problem if you added a few all at the same time, then it will be harder to track down.

If you have removed the problem airport and reverted back to the FSX default airport you may have to reinstall the relevant airlines through the WOAI installer as the add-on may of altered some of the files for the AI. I am sure I had to do that when I downloaded a bad version of NZWN.

I will continue to do some sleuthing.

[PhantomTweak]

Try the program AFCAD2.21. or maybe it's AFCAD v2.21 Anyway, it does open non-ADE airport BGL files, you just have to point it at the right place to go find the BGL you want. It's a lot like ADE but simplified. Once you get the file you want to look at opened, you can then zoom in to avoid overload by using the mouse wheel. I've used to edit a few carriers for NAVAIDS in FS9, just for practice. It couldn't care less what simulator may be installed, as long as it can see a BGL file, it's happy. It doesn't need any SDKs or things like that like ADE seems to require.

Just a thought...I get them so rarely, that they get lonely and run off pretty fast.

Pat☺

[StringBean]

The gates for your commercial AI should have a designation of small, medium or heavy. If it says GA then that gate wont accept commercial AI. Being you cant open the add-on its a bit of a moot point.

Yes it will.

 

The only factor that will definitely prevent AI from using a parking spot is size.

 

If there are no available gates and the ramp spots are big enough "commercial AI", whatever that is, will park there.

 

If you have removed the problem airport and reverted back to the FSX default airport you may have to reinstall the relevant airlines through the WOAI installer as the add-on may of altered some of the files for the AI.

Installing an airport will have no impact on any WoAI package.

 

There is no need to reinstall a WoAI package because you removed an addon airport.

 

peace,

the Bean

[StringBean]

Try the program AFCAD2.21. or maybe it's AFCAD v2.21

 

Do not use Afcad2.21 for FSX.

 

There is a lot of airport info in FSX files that Afcad does not understand and will strip out of the file when you compile it.

 

You might get away with using Afcad2.21 to create a new airport for FSX, I would never recommend it.

 

Never use Afcad2.21 on existing FSX airports.

 

peace,

the Bean

[StringBean]

OK, I got ADE, and after doing battle with it for 3 hours (because it couldn't find ANYTHING and I didn't have the Arial Narrow Bold font installed, and my SDK wasn't Kosher and... and... and... I FINALLY got it to launch with no disaster messages, and figured out how to load KLAX. This is what I got:

http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u484/Hoggy_Dog/ADE-KLAX.png

 

As you can see, there is no way to limit the view to "Gates" so what I'm looking at here is absolute sensory overload... zooming in to enlarge the gate areas woud help, but there's no zoom control. :( When I mouse over the little green blotches, which I assume are gates, they all appear to still be gates.

 

So what is the "error condition" I should be looking for? What would a green blotch say on mouseover if it were no longer a gate?

 

Also, based on what you said, I guess I have to do this for all of my addon airports... ::frowny face::

 

EDIT to add: Never mind. Can't open any addon airport with this. When I select "Open Airport" it restricts me to ADE project file types and will not allow me to change that, and so I tried "Open Airport from BGL" but the airport I wanted to open (KLAS) has like 50 bgl files and ADE won't support multi-select. When I tried to open one of the 50 bgl's, ADE said "this file does not contain an airport so ADE will not open it."

 

There may be a tutorial somewhere, but right now I think I'll go do something less infuriating like solving world hunger. I'm pretty sure my blood pressure just hit 800/500 with this so-unintuitive-even-a-smart-guy-can't-open-an addon-airport software. :mad: :mad:

 

See that little red box in the bottom eft hand corner of the screen? Click on it.

 

Yes, you do need to know which file is the AFD file when you want to modify files created by someone else.

 

ADE does have a rather excellent Help file that can be accessed through the menu. There is even a link to the support forum where you can download a PDF version of the manual if you wish.

 

ADE is a powerful CAD-like program that takes some time to learn, though not as much as SBuilder, as an example.

 

One of the many tools in ADE is the Lists, one of which is Parking.

 

When you learn how to use ADE you will understand that opening and saving an airport is working with the ADE project file.

 

Saving the project file will not give you anything FS can use, you need to compile for that.

 

To open an addon airport you have to open the .bgl file by, oddly enough, "Open airport from BGL".

 

peace,

the Bean

 

[edit]

and to zoom you use the mouse wheel or the + and - keys, just like FSX

[/edit]

[jvile]

Hello Hogg E. Dogg

 

In 2 different post you said

 

 

I apologize if I said that. My Hartsfield used to be packed to the rafters, but that's no longer the case- just now, it had 3-4 Deltas, 2 Air Trans and 2 FSX Fictitious. Nobody landing. One Delta MD-80 took off as I taxied around.

 

and you said this

 

As I taxied to the gate, I saw maybe 2 WOAI airplanes at different gates, plus a couple of FSX Orbits and World Travels and one lonely Air France heavy.

 

So you are seeing both the FSX AI Planes and the WOAI planes and that is your problem.

 

If the FSX AI Planes are active then only a few WOAI planes will be seen in air and at airports.

 

You have 2 choices

 

1. Remove/rename the trafficAircraft.bgl, trafficCarriers.bgl and trafficBoats.bgl from the Scenery\world\scenery folder

 

or

 

2. Convert the WOAI FS9 (actually FS2002) Flight Plans so they will coexist with the FSX AI Planes, Carriers and large vessels. You can do this with several different utilities like FP_FS9_FSX from the developer of WOAI or with the AIFP utility.

 

 

jim

[mrzippy]

 

Convert the WOAI FS9 (actually FS2002) Flight Plans so they will coexist with the FSX AI Planes, Carriers and large vessels. You can do this with several different utilities like FP_FS9_FSX from the developer of WOAI or with the AIFP utility.

 

jim

 

 

From his first post....."I also ran the FS9-Fixer to convert non-FSX WOAI files."

 

I think he may have added something to his Sim that has affected some of the AI aircraft.

[mrzippy]

I'm still working on the premise that it all worked "Before", and something has changed. Just looking in my SimObjects/Airplanes folder I have 124 WOAI aircraft folders. Some are fairly big in size containing up to a dozen textures (Liveries) for that one aircraft.

 

I also counted 77 WOAI traffic files in Scenery/World scenery folder. I imagine I have a piddly amount compared to others.

 

In your screenshot in an earlier post, I only counted 26 WOAI traffic files. Did the fairies eat the missing ones? ;)

[PhantomTweak]

Do not use Afcad2.21 for FSX.

I apologize! I never tried it in FSX, only FS9, to date. I will definately bear in mind your advice about it though.

 

As usual, I was mistaken. Again, "MY BAD", as the saying goes :D

I was thinking it might just be a quick easy way to take a look and see what was where, is all. Sorry bout that Chief!

Pat☺

[HoggyDog]

To open an addon airport you have to open the .bgl file by, oddly enough, "Open airport from BGL".

 

Thanks, Bean, I admire your sense of humor. :D As I said in the post you responded to, I tried that and it doesn't work.

[HoggyDog]

I'm still working on the premise that it all worked "Before", and something has changed. Just looking in my SimObjects/Airplanes folder I have 124 WOAI aircraft folders. Some are fairly big in size containing up to a dozen textures (Liveries) for that one aircraft.

 

I also counted 77 WOAI traffic files in Scenery/World scenery folder. I imagine I have a piddly amount compared to others.

 

In your screenshot in an earlier post, I only counted 26 WOAI traffic files. Did the fairies eat the missing ones? ;)

 

No, I think that's all I installed. I tried to get the U.S. airlines (because I fly here), plus Caribbeans (because I fly there) and the majors from Europe (because they fly here.) I also got Qantas because I'm a Oz-e-phile. :D What you see is how many I got.

 

If you look at the airlines that I have, there are more than enough there to fully populate any major airline hub in the U.S. Delta alone should pretty much fully populate KATL, as American should fully populate KDFW, etc.

 

I don't think the problem is that I am missing any WOAI files, because, as you saw in some of my screenies, the WOAI files I have are MORE than sufficient to generate tons of traffic where I fly.

 

I am trying to figure out which addon airports I've installed since WOAI last worked well for me. Then if I can figure out HOW to open an addon airport, I'll use ADE to check gate assignments- because that seems to fit my symptoms the best: WOAI still works, but is drastically reduced. Missing gate assignments due to a faulty freeware airport could do that, but pretty much any other possibility (such as FS9 flight plans, which I've repeatedly said I converted with AIFP but keeps cropping up anyway as a possibility) would stop WOAI altogether.

[HoggyDog]

If the FSX AI Planes are active then only a few WOAI planes will be seen in air and at airports.

So far, so good: that is exactly the symptom I'm seeing. However, I had WOAI cramming my skies, ramps, gates, approaches, runways & taxiways "to the rafters" as Zippy says :D for several months without disabling FSX AI planes.

 

You have 2 choices

1. Remove/rename the trafficAircraft.bgl, trafficCarriers.bgl and trafficBoats.bgl from the Scenery\world\scenery folder

OK, I understand that this would kill all FSX fictitious airline traffic, but what else would it kill? All seaborne traffic as well, including the Aircraft Carriers? What if I merely renamed trafficAircraft.bgl but left the other two alone? Are ships and boats able to interfere with WOAI? If this is necessary, how did WOAI work so well for months without disabling any of these?

 

2. Convert the WOAI FS9 (actually FS2002) Flight Plans so they will coexist with the FSX AI Planes, Carriers and large vessels.

I did that with AIFP when I first installed WOAI. My understanding is that the presence of even one FS9 flight plan is enough to completely disable all WOAI traffic everywhere, so if I hadn't done that, I could never have seen any WOAI traffic at all.

 

What I'm looking for is conditions that can slow down, but not kill, WOAI traffic. So far, bad gate assignment from an addon airport seems to be the only possible candidate for my symptom.

 

I think what I may do, rather than continue to struggle with ADE at this point, is just temporarily remove all of my addon airports from the Scenery Library window in FSX settings and see if that restores thick-as-flies Delta traffic at KATL. Then at least I'll know what the issue is.

 

Thanks for your helpful input, Jim.

 

Doug

[StringBean]

Thanks, Bean, I admire your sense of humor. :D As I said in the post you responded to, I tried that and it doesn't work.

 

It will work once you figure out which one of the "50 files" contains the Airport Facilities Data, the AFD file.

 

It will work if that AFD file was created for FS9 or FSX using XML input. Some FS9 addons have AFD files created with the older SCASM technology, which will work to a degree in FSX.

 

If the AFD file was created with SCASM then you are not going to be able to use ADE with it.

 

What addon are we talking about?

 

FTR, seeing WoAI in your sim does not mean that you converted all of the WoAI traffic files to FSX format. Those still in FS9 format will still work.

 

And FS9 format traffic files will not kill all FSX traffic files everywhere. If you are in an area where there is no active AI being called from FS9 format traffic files the FSX format traffic will appear.

 

The only way to verify AI movements is to...

 

1) analyze the AFD file for correctly sized and quantity of parking.

 

2) analyze the traffic file to see how much traffic should be at a given airport at any given time. AIFP can help you with this. Look into the Parking Analyzer function.

 

3) verify that you have the called AI correctly installed in your FSX. Again, AIFP will help you with this.

 

Try this, disable you addon for ATL so you are using the default airport. Then go there on a Wednesday morning at 3:00 AM local time and see how much traffic you have parked at the airport.

 

peace,

the Bean

[HoggyDog]

Here's what I have done so far:

 

 

1. Un-ticked, then removed all of my addon airports except Fly Tampa Maarten in the FSX Settings > Scenery Library window
   
2. Discovered and removed 5 or 6 un-ticked UTX-Can entries in the FSX Settings > Scenery Library window
   
3. Moved all airport files and folders except Fly Tampa Maarten from FSX\Addon Scenery to a temp folder on the desktop
   
4. Launched FSX as an AAL B738 at Atlanta Hartsfield and KLAX, set time of day to 1600 local time
   

 

This is what I saw:

 

KATL Concourse B and C gates

http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u484/Hoggy_Dog/2015-6-28_1-33-8-419.png

 

KATL Rwy 9L takeoff queue- note landing aircraft on 9R

http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u484/Hoggy_Dog/2015-6-28_1-34-37-596.png

 

KLAX Gates- note Air France Airbus

http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u484/Hoggy_Dog/2015-6-28_1-40-12-132.png

 

KLAX Rwy 6R- note mixture of FSX AI and WOAI airliners

http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u484/Hoggy_Dog/2015-6-28_1-48-35-846.png

 

So now, I think it's just a matter of putting back my freeware addon airports one at a time until I discover which one is hosing WOAI, then deleting that one permanently- "Take off, ya hoser, eh?" :p

[HoggyDog]

<...>figure out which one of the "50 files" contains the Airport Facilities Data, the AFD file.

That is terrific information to have. I did not know that the airport file would have "AFD" in it. That helps a lot.

 

FTR

I feel really dumb, but I have no idea what "FTR" stands for.

 

seeing WoAI in your sim does not mean that you converted all of the WoAI traffic files to FSX format.

Well, all of the info I have read so far says that it does in fact mean exactly that (see below). However, whether or not seeing any WOAI at all proves that I converted all FS9 flight plans when I installed them, I did, in fact, run AIFP as instructed on the WOAI site, and successfully converted all FS9 flight plans to FSX format.

 

Those still in FS9 format will still work. And FS9 format traffic files will not kill all FSX traffic files everywhere. If you are in an area where there is no active AI being called from FS9 format traffic files the FSX format traffic will appear.

That directly contradicts the instructions I read when I installed WOAI, as well as information published online in various WOAI threads. It was explicitly stated in several places that I read then and within the past week that even ONE unconverted FS9 flight plan would kill all WOAI activity in FSX. Bear in mind, I'm not saying that you are wrong, just that there is "instructional" information to the contrary at WOAI and in other WOAI threads.

 

Try this, disable you addon for ATL so you are using the default airport. Then go there on a Wednesday morning at 3:00 AM local time and see how much traffic you have parked at the airport.

Because I read that messed up gate assignments at ANY airline airport can have a domino effect on AI flights into and out of many other airports, I removed ALL of my addon airports except one payware (Fly Tamp Maarten) and apparently, got WOAI to work more or less acceptably. I just posted the details in the post above this one.

 

Thanks again for your help.

[StringBean]

FTR=For The Record

 

I did not post based on what I read somewhere, it is based on what I have seen with mine own 2 eyes on mine own computers.

 

Having FS9 format traffic files mixed with FSX format traffic files will only kill FSX traffic in parts of the world where the FS9 traffic is active.

 

Basically, if you have no FS9 traffic files that service Canada, you will see the FSX traffic in Canada.

 

If you have a mix of 9 and X format traffic files, WoAI or others, you will see the 9 traffic in the sim.

 

If you have an FS9 WoAI traffic file for United and an FSX WoAI traffic file for Alaska Air you will see the United at Seattle and will not see the Alaska Air there.

 

Having an FS9 format traffic file will not kill all traffic, only FSX format traffic.

 

Also be aware that some scenery addon devs supply traffic files with their scenery files. You might have an FS9 format traffic file hiding in one or more of your scenery addons.

 

peace,

the Bean

[HoggyDog]

OK, thanks for clarifying. I'll re-run AIFP and see if it finds any FS9 flight plans.

EDIT update: AIFP does not find any FS9 flight plans in my entire FS9 installation.

[HoggyDog]

Update:

 

I completely deleted all WoAI files, then re-installed them using the WoAI installer and ran AIFP to convert all the FS9 files to FSX. Visually checking all the WoAI files, they appear to be back in their proper places. Then I uninstalled my only remaining addon scenery- Fly Tampa Maarten- leaving my FSX scenery bone-stock except for GEX and UTX.

 

I verified the Traffic slider was maxed at "Ultra" and loaded in as a default 738 at default KATL. At 7:00 AM, there were approximately 20 airliners parked on the entirety of KATL. It should have been jammed to the rafters, with literally a hundred or more airliners crawling out of every nook and cranny.

 

Following an earlier suggestion in this thread, I changed the time to 0300, but there were even fewer airliners there- maybe 10 on the entire airport.

 

Are GEX and/or UTX possible causes of this issue? I've been running both for eons and WoAI crammed my KATL with hundreds of airliners at almost any time of day or night- which is what the real Hartsfield Atlanta airport looks like day and night. However, I recently updated to UTX-US version 2... but I don't think UTX does anything to change or impair gate assignments.

 

Does anyone have any ideas as to how I can restore my AI to full-bore operation, or at least some troubleshooting path that might lead to that?

[StringBean]

Is your FSX installed in the Program Files folder?

 

When you converted the FS9 format traffic files to FSX format, did you verify that all of the FS9 files are removed from active scenery folders?

 

You have AI Flight Planner? Can you run the Traffic Analyser for KATL?

 

peace,

the Bean

[HoggyDog]

Is your FSX installed in the Program Files folder?

No, it's on an SSD with drive letter G: along with all my Steam games. Specifically, it's in G:\Games\Steam\Steamapps\common\FSX, which is the standard Steam path except for the drive letter and top-level directory. If your question was all about UAC, no need to worry- there isn't any of that going on on my G: drive.

 

When you converted the FS9 format traffic files to FSX format, did you verify that all of the FS9 files are removed from active scenery folders?

No. I wouldn't know how to recognize an "FS9 file" if it bit me in the AI. :p I did set AIFP to delete the FS9 files after converting them, and I had it scan for FS9 files using the "Use All" button after successfully converting them and it didn't find any.

 

You have AI Flight Planner?

LOL. :D

 

Can you run the Traffic Analyser for KATL?

Well, yes. Yes, I can.

 

Apparently, the Airbuses aren't installed and I don't know where to get them- The nearest 7-11 is fresh out of Airbuses. :p

 

Second warning about the missing Airbuses. It it conceivable that this missing A321 x3 paints could account for the missing 40-50 airplanes at KATL?

 

Results of Parking Analysis using "All" and "Gates"

 

If I'm reading this right, I should have 40 or so airliners at KATL gates pretty much 24-7, more during peak times. A couple of months ago, I had 40 airliners just on the one gate area I was parked in... so maybe 120 at all gates (rough extrapolation). Now, I have ~20 on the whole airport.

 

Thanks for helping. "We" will get this. I'm wearing my lucky Merkin. :cool: