SURVEY - How Many here skipped FS2020 and are going to be making the jump from FSX to FS2024?

[Sweetd31]

See title. I recently installed FSX-SE, having had gold edition with acceleration on CD-rom over 14 years ago (proabably still in my closet).But I was blown away at how awesome FSX runs on a semi-modern computer, and the scenary and flight models is plenty to learn how to fly IFR, VOR, ILS approaches etc. IDK the over the top UIs and highlighting everything in that weird blue outline that your cursor points at, and a few other uncanny things related to the graphics. 

 

I feel our minds are going to be blown though. Looking forward to it. 

[jorgen.s.andersen]

I made the jump from FSX (and also have FSX:SE) to P3D v. 4. Since then I have made the jump to v. 5 and v. 6, but v. is still my favorite.

 

I am not at all interested in an arcade game like MSFS 2020, especially when it requires a full-time online connection. I had it on my system for about 30 minutes, and was so deeply disappointed that I deleted it and requested a refund (which I got).

 

So, guess what? I don't care one flying iota about 2024, given Microsoft's track record. P3D is a real, professional flight simulator that does what I want, not what Microsoft thinks I should want.

 

Jorgen

[wobbie]

I'm sticking to my P3Dv4.5, which I prefer to v5, as the colors, for me, in v4.5 are more realistic. 

Moving to FS2024? No, for various reasons, the main one being the amount of space these sims take in storage, the amount pf PC power needed, & the lack of my preferred types of aircraft.

My preference is immersion, above realism.

[Sweetd31]

Good points, what do you think about X-plane, I hear they are getting ai traffic update

[Ray Hff]

My interest in FSX is primarily in the technical aspects of flying and navigation with sightseeing being secondary.  ( I got started in all of this  early on flying a couple pixels on a Commodore 64.)

 

Over the years, I've added scores of aircraft, as well as, airports and other scenery to FSX.

 

Last year I stepped up to an HP Omen solid state laptop and the performance has been incredible.  As an example, with all the display settings maxed out, I get 40+ fps flying low over New York City.

 

Would I like to step up to the latest simulator?  Sure; but, all things considered, I'm quite comfortable with FSX. And, if I just want to sightsee, I can always play around with Google Earth Pro's "simulator" at no cost.
 

[Sweetd31]

I am in the same boat, by modern standards my PC is not that strong, but by 2007 standards it runs the game so much better than it did 15 years ago for me. I saw it on sale on steam, and decided to download it again and man am I hooked. I run max settings direct X 9 and no lens flare or bloom. Pretty impressive.

[pomak249]

My rig runs FSX easily since upgrading my GPU. My only issue (or disappointment) is that FSX has never been upgraded to 64bit which is a real shame as I feel being able to use more onboard RAM would make it exceptional

[jorgen.s.andersen]

When you're ready for it, then I really do believe that P3D v. 4 and above will amaze you. I started with v. 4 and was hooked immediately. Today, I have v. 5 and v. 6. but my favorite is v. 5.

 

The only drawback is that P3D is pretty demanding on the hardware.

 

Jorgen

[Bwoinbeerr]

I haven't even tried MSFS. I am still very happy using FS2004, FSX, and P3d v4.5, which runs beautifully on my rig. 

I wasn't remotely interested in MSFS. And can't say now I am going to buy the newest version.

I also have bought so many fantastic add ons throught the years, still enjoy them!

 

[Skywatcher12]

The new games, sorry, be something I'll be happily passing up this lifetime.
Flight sims went uphill till FS2004, then the decline started. I'll stay at the peak.

[JSkorna]

Memories, light the corners of my mind.

[Skywatcher12]

15 hours ago, JSkorna said:

Memories, light the corners of my mind.

Reminisce about the 70's and 80's while you live in 2024.
With flight sims, you don't have to move on and can stay totally happy forever!

[pf flyer]

I am enjoying this discussion (just recently signed up for this forum after decades of FS usage, from the first to now.)

I tried MSFS2020. I had really high hopes for it. After all, most of us simmers DO like realistic terrain and visuals. MSFS2020 had amazing detail and scenery, right dow to the streets around my neighborhood. So, from that aspect, I was blown away. But my enthusiasm took a huge divebomb when I encountered all the features that were missing- features and user-friendlineess that FS9 and FSX both had.

 

For instance, being able to hide the cockpit (the good old "W" key). In FS2020 you have to set up custom camera views to get close and even then you don't get the same perspective. The W key worked and allowed you to enjoy the scenery from the same perspective as your cockpit seat.

 

Then there was the angle of viewing, or raising or lowering the seat... in FS9/FSX you can change the angle so that you could see more ground, not just sky, when in the cockpit. I found this essential for landings.

 

Then there was the ATC in FS2020. To be blunt, it sucks, and there are a zillion posts about all the external ATC packages that you can buy and how well or not they work with FS2020. What a waste! ATC in FSX works fine. Why/how could they not get THAT right? OK, the voices/terminolgy aren't 100% realistic? Who cares? ATC in FSX, on an IFR flight, always gets me there, vectors me for ILS landings, etc. Is it perfect real? I'm not a real-world pilot so I'll guess and say "probably not" but it works, is enjoyable, and is user-friendly.

 

Then there is the complexity of the big planes. First, the airlines that come with FSS2020 didn't work well from day one and you have to buy one if you want one that works. Then, they are so complex. I want a degree of realism in my big planes but I don't want to have to read a 50 page manual and go through a 10 minute startup procedure every time I fly. There are so many choices for addons for FSX, from simple to more complex airlines and jets.

 

Finally, and this is hard to fathom in this day and age, MSFS still, after several years, has no multi monitor support.

 

I can't understand why, when developing a new sim, you wouldn't keep the things that worked well, then add the visuals. If I could get a sim that worked as well, ran as smoothly on a decent computer, and was as stable and user-friendly as FSX, but had the scenery advancements of MSFS2020/2024, I'd pay a bunch for that.

It hasn't happened.

 

I will probably try 2024 when it comes out, in hopes that they figured out all this stuff, but I have my doubts.

I just added Traffic Global to FSX and I'm loving it even more.

Pete 

[pf flyer]

By the way, Skywatcher12, I see your logo... the playoffs this year have been fantastic! (Yeah, I know not for Pittsburgh...).

[Sweetd31]

6 hours ago, pf flyer said:

has no multi monitor support.

Reading through the other forums, I did see it is possible in 2020. I agree so much, but on occasion ATC will smoke a doobie and forget I exist. Usually airport dependent and the work around is to create a custom IFR. Usually happens if the vector change is immediately after handoff.... i think. 

[loki]

6 hours ago, pf flyer said:

Finally, and this is hard to fathom in this day and age, MSFS still, after several years, has no multi monitor support.

It gained multi-monitor support a few updates ago.

 

 

[pf flyer]

That's great. I'm wondering, since I am only using 2 monitors, if it also allows undocking the cockpit so that I can have all controls on one and just the outside view on the other. This would at least compensate somewhat for not being able to hide the cockpit with one monitor.

 

In any case, if I can't get ATC and AI traffic at least as sophisticated and accurate as FSX, I will stay away. That is a no-go for me.

But like I said, I'll reserve judgement until 2024 is released.

[Skywatcher12]

11 hours ago, pf flyer said:

By the way, Skywatcher12, I see your logo... the playoffs this year have been fantastic! (Yeah, I know not for Pittsburgh...).

Agree on your MS2020 post and hockey. No Pittsburgh but been has been a fun series. Hoping for Panthers and Stars final.
On MS2020, I can't stand the clouds. They look sickly wrong. I'm surprised people so happily accept them. I'm completely content with FS9 and I'll stay there. Stopped moving on with many things in life and life has become much more enjoyable. Feel like I'm missing nothing.

[Digital_Aviator]

So much misinformation and misunderstanding about MSFS 2020.

Multi-monitor support has been with us for over a year, more like a year and a half.

ATC in FSX/P3D has always been buggy, the only thing that changed with ATC is Azure voices, this was a process where Dovetail Games ported FSX code to 64 bit.  They wanted to implement more immersive AI type systems but the tech wasn't there years ago.  Asobo inherited all the work DTG had done.  I wrote a lot of game design documents and also the designs for DTG's ATC wishlist.  Now we have Say Intentions that has just come out and Beyond ATC which allow for speaking like a human and it will respond back.

 

Someone mentioned not being able to raise the seat height?  That's been possible since day one. It's arrow keys to move around and some require the shift key while others the alt key to pan etc.  By default to raise the seat up and down it's the up and down arrows.  You can also hit space and it will automatically lift you up higher AND you can set your default seat height view in the options settings, you can even measure yourself from the seat to eye level in real life and make all aircraft match your own height for viewpoint if you want to be that nerdy, which I am... 

Others talk about well I fly airliners etc so I don't need real imagery because I fly IFR.  Well when you're a real pilot you do look out the window for landmarks and stuff that doesn't exist in FSX or before.  It's a part of a pilot's situational awareness.

 

MSFS also handles VR native by default, fly inside was great but still presented challenges with VR.  I can't fly in 2D anymore, stepping inside aircraft I actually pilot in my Pimax 5K Super is 100% game changing.  You can look over your shoulder easily while flying the circuit to make sure you're at the right place to do your base turn.  Apart from motion and G forces, it's definitely as real as you can get until the Pimax 12K comes out.

Performance wise with computers, if you still have a 15-20 year old computer by all means stick with FSX, but sheesh, you couldn't set aside $100-200 per year the last 10-20 years for an upgrade to hardware? lol. Again it's like every version of FS that has ever been released, it needs new hardware and optimizations to stay within hardware limits to get high FPS and smooth flights.  There's nothing new under the sun there.

 

Clouds?  Has anyone not flown through GLOBAL cloud coverage with 5 layers of clouds and holes in between them that you have to weave around if you're flying VFR?  Also there's REX Weather and now Active Sky for MSFS.  So just like the FS2002 based cloud system in FSX, there are choices to change those clouds.

I uninstalled FSX/P3D a couple of years ago, and while lacking key aircraft I want and have experience with in real life like 727's and 767's (Captain Sim's is out but doesn't have proper gauges for the 767 especially the engines).  Other aircraft like the PA-38-112 or Vans RV-7, Caribou, F-5, F-14 Tomcats, and so much more are already in the sim.

Also there's been so many upgrades to MSFS in the last few years, that those who are basing their findings on a few years ago really should dive in to the latest version with all the updates.  You might just fall in love with it the way people did between FS2004 (aka FS9) and FSX.

 

FSX has had it's day, no PBR textures, low res graphics on aircraft, no photogrammetry cities, no aerial imagery by default (I pulled the plug on UltimateVFR development and seems PC Aviator has basically given up on MegaScenery Earth).  FSX doesn't have procedural approaches like MSFS where it uses proper SIDs and STARs, and you can turn off SIDs/STARs in MSFS have have ATC follow your flight plan.

Just to bring light to some of the issues raised in previous posts and sharing what MSFS is in response to those concerns.  MSFS 2024 will basically be FS2020 with upgraded graphics and "Something to Do" which is what FS11 was going to be.  i.e. you drive to the airport, do your pre-flight and fly a career, the code is there in the DTG stuff as well as can be seen in FSW.  It's been designed in game design documents since the initial work on FS11 before MSFT shut down ACES.

Regardless, there's exciting days ahead as more and more AI tools add to the capabilities of the simulator platform.

[Airbasil_1]

I personally skipped FSX, P3D, X-Plane 12 (which in my mind definitely looks good), MSFS, FS2020 and will also pass on FS2024
as they all don't run on my oldschool Laptop from 1990. 

I remain with my alltime Favorite Sim FS2004. Which allways runs without any issues. Also I've invested too much money and time and effort into my FS2004 
that i don't see any sence in spending even more money in upgrading to another Monster Machine Computer and Sims and Addons...

as long as my FS2004 runs flawlessly and sometimes even looks better than FSX ever did (reference: FS2004 Random Shot Thread) I don't see any sense in Upgrading
So I'll probably remain with FS9 the next 20 Years... as it's a Sim that proved to be timeless, reliable and will probably never really die out.. - at least not for veterans like me. 

[Skywatcher12]

21 hours ago, Digital_Aviator said:

So much misinformation and misunderstanding about MSFS 2020.

Multi-monitor support has been with us for over a year, more like a year and a half.

ATC in FSX/P3D has always been buggy, the only thing that changed with ATC is Azure voices, this was a process where Dovetail Games ported FSX code to 64 bit.  They wanted to implement more immersive AI type systems but the tech wasn't there years ago.  Asobo inherited all the work DTG had done.  I wrote a lot of game design documents and also the designs for DTG's ATC wishlist.  Now we have Say Intentions that has just come out and Beyond ATC which allow for speaking like a human and it will respond back.

 

Someone mentioned not being able to raise the seat height?  That's been possible since day one. It's arrow keys to move around and some require the shift key while others the alt key to pan etc.  By default to raise the seat up and down it's the up and down arrows.  You can also hit space and it will automatically lift you up higher AND you can set your default seat height view in the options settings, you can even measure yourself from the seat to eye level in real life and make all aircraft match your own height for viewpoint if you want to be that nerdy, which I am... 

Others talk about well I fly airliners etc so I don't need real imagery because I fly IFR.  Well when you're a real pilot you do look out the window for landmarks and stuff that doesn't exist in FSX or before.  It's a part of a pilot's situational awareness.

 

MSFS also handles VR native by default, fly inside was great but still presented challenges with VR.  I can't fly in 2D anymore, stepping inside aircraft I actually pilot in my Pimax 5K Super is 100% game changing.  You can look over your shoulder easily while flying the circuit to make sure you're at the right place to do your base turn.  Apart from motion and G forces, it's definitely as real as you can get until the Pimax 12K comes out.

Performance wise with computers, if you still have a 15-20 year old computer by all means stick with FSX, but sheesh, you couldn't set aside $100-200 per year the last 10-20 years for an upgrade to hardware? lol. Again it's like every version of FS that has ever been released, it needs new hardware and optimizations to stay within hardware limits to get high FPS and smooth flights.  There's nothing new under the sun there.

 

Clouds?  Has anyone not flown through GLOBAL cloud coverage with 5 layers of clouds and holes in between them that you have to weave around if you're flying VFR?  Also there's REX Weather and now Active Sky for MSFS.  So just like the FS2002 based cloud system in FSX, there are choices to change those clouds.

I uninstalled FSX/P3D a couple of years ago, and while lacking key aircraft I want and have experience with in real life like 727's and 767's (Captain Sim's is out but doesn't have proper gauges for the 767 especially the engines).  Other aircraft like the PA-38-112 or Vans RV-7, Caribou, F-5, F-14 Tomcats, and so much more are already in the sim.

Also there's been so many upgrades to MSFS in the last few years, that those who are basing their findings on a few years ago really should dive in to the latest version with all the updates.  You might just fall in love with it the way people did between FS2004 (aka FS9) and FSX.

 

FSX has had it's day, no PBR textures, low res graphics on aircraft, no photogrammetry cities, no aerial imagery by default (I pulled the plug on UltimateVFR development and seems PC Aviator has basically given up on MegaScenery Earth).  FSX doesn't have procedural approaches like MSFS where it uses proper SIDs and STARs, and you can turn off SIDs/STARs in MSFS have have ATC follow your flight plan.

Just to bring light to some of the issues raised in previous posts and sharing what MSFS is in response to those concerns.  MSFS 2024 will basically be FS2020 with upgraded graphics and "Something to Do" which is what FS11 was going to be.  i.e. you drive to the airport, do your pre-flight and fly a career, the code is there in the DTG stuff as well as can be seen in FSW.  It's been designed in game design documents since the initial work on FS11 before MSFT shut down ACES.

Regardless, there's exciting days ahead as more and more AI tools add to the capabilities of the simulator platform.

My problems with MSFS start the second you launch it.
I can finish a FS2004 flight before MSFS has me on the tarmac ready to take off!
Life is short. Each to their own. Enjoy.

[Rupert]

On 5/26/2024 at 6:10 PM, loki said:

It gained multi-monitor support a few updates ago.

 

 

YOOPIE!!!  And after how many, many hours spent online getting updates and months without that feature did that finally happen?  And BTW: Did they ever decide to use the standard flight sim control keys most of us learned decades ago?  Or are they still on X-Box standards which are totally different? 

 

An old adage "If you screw me once shame on you,  If you screw me twice shame on me" applies here  I'm not wasting another $100 or more and even tying up my internet for hours at a time getting updates on the MSFS I foolishly bought coping with issues which should have been cured for before a paid for product was offered from day one. And no I have no intention to waste my time and money to be a Charlie Tester for MSFS ever again!

[PhrogPhlyer]

I try to stay away from these posts, which really boil down to personal preferences and opinion.

Each on of us make choices based on multiple factors, and these can vary significantly from one of us to the next.

I "chose" to base my sim flying in FSX, not due to disliking any other flight sim variant, but for reasons that are mine, and mine alone.

Attempting to explain or justify one's decision is a dead end street.

So for everyone on this wonderful FlightSim site, let's attempt to be civil, and respect that we all have made these choices.

I would suggest, as I have many times in many threads, try to appreciate what each simmer has to offer, no matter what sim variant they may be using.

For those of you who may not be RL aviators, these type of discussions go on at airports around the world; "You fly a Tomahawk? You must have a death wish." or "I'd never get into a helicopter, to many moving parts." or "What!?! You don't want to be an airline pilot!?!?" or any of the tens of thousands of variations you can think of. When in reality, flying a hot air balloon, the SR-71, or anything in between has on major thing in common, YOU ARE FLYING!

So I will continue to enjoy all the amazing stories, repaints, sceneries, and good down the earth comradery that includes everyone here and every flight sim there is.

Happy simming.  

[jgf]

[Sweetd31]

2 hours ago, PhrogPhlyer said:

I try to stay away from these posts, which really boil down to personal preferences and opinion.

Each on of us make choices based on multiple factors, and these can vary significantly from one of us to the next.

I "chose" to base my sim flying in FSX, not due to disliking any other flight sim variant, but for reasons that are mine, and mine alone.

Attempting to explain or justify one's decision is a dead end street.

So for everyone on this wonderful FlightSim site, let's attempt to be civil, and respect that we all have made these choices.

I would suggest, as I have many times in many threads, try to appreciate what each simmer has to offer, no matter what sim variant they may be using.

For those of you who may not be RL aviators, these type of discussions go on at airports around the world; "You fly a Tomahawk? You must have a death wish." or "I'd never get into a helicopter, to many moving parts." or "What!?! You don't want to be an airline pilot!?!?" or any of the tens of thousands of variations you can think of. When in reality, flying a hot air balloon, the SR-71, or anything in between has on major thing in common, YOU ARE FLYING!

So I will continue to enjoy all the amazing stories, repaints, sceneries, and good down the earth comradery that includes everyone here and every flight sim there is.

Happy simming.  

I have enjoyed this thread quite a bit, but I am a super latecomer. I have learned so much and took it very serious in sim with respect to instruments and procedure. I went to school to study biological sciences, and flirted with the idea of aviation when I was 20. At 27 I got diagnosed with a rare form of glaucoma, and technically I am better than 20-40 vision, which I believe is airline standard, I have blind spots with one eye closed. I am sure I could still get a private pilot license, but I doubt any airline would sign a waiver to allow me to fly. I recently became obsessed with aviation, it actually makes me quite emotional (with joy) listening to people's stories. So for now, flying in sim is likely the closest I will get to flying for an airliner. FSX was simply the choice for nostalgia and not being able to afford a PC at this time. 

 

But sharing my story, I grew up and lived near the 149th fighter wing, aka the Lonestar Gunfighters. I sometimes tear up when flying the F16 in sim, because I think about their bravery and sacrifice that they made to protect this country. The fact that aviation brings all together, I find very special, and I cherish it. 

-Sincerely, Daniel