Bazp Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 I fly mainly helicopters and have been using a Saitek Cyborg Evo Force with FSX and previous versions. 2020 refuses to load with this stick and crashes to desk top before loading so I bought a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro which works fine. Unfortunately the centering spring is much too hard for use with helicopters. Can anyone recommend a stick either with a weak spring or one that can be disabled that will work with this sim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Founder Nels_Anderson Posted March 14 Founder Share Posted March 14 I used to fly helicopters with the Logitech 3D Pro as well, and found the same problem with the spring. If you're a little bit handy, the spring can be removed. Do a Google search on spring mod or similar and you'll find both videos and text tutorials on how to do it. I did it and it's not that hard. Eventually though I decided to upgrade to a better stick. I got the VKB "Gladiator" which comes with several different springs. Or you can do what I ended up doing, and run it with no spring at all but since the friction on the stick is adjustable I've made stick movements sort of stiff so the stick does not flop around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhrogPhlyer Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 I can not answer to how well this would work in MSFS2020, but I have been using the MS Sidewinder Precision 2 joystick for helicopter flying since I purchased it in late 1998. This joystick has proven itself with the test of time. It is self centering, but the amount of force required to hold it off center in minimal, just enough to want to center, but not enough that I ever am fighting with it. This joystick is available on ebay between for $10-$30. I have never looked into another stick for helicopter flying as I have been completely happy with it. In the near future I will be modifying a joystick and separate throttle into a full size cyclic and collective. I will detail the mod (joys and frustration) and share here. When not using the Sidewinder 2 for fixed wing, I use either the CH Products Flight Sim Yoke, or a combo of CH Products Fighter Stick and Pro Throttle. Always Aviate, then Navigate, then Communicate. And never be low on Fuel, Altitude, Airspeed, or Ideas. Laptop, Intel Core i7 CPU 1.80GHz 2.30 GHz, 8GB RAM, 64-bit, NVIDIA GeoForce MX 130, Extra large coffee-black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazp Posted March 15 Author Share Posted March 15 Thank you for both replies. I will try removing the spring but but like you Nels I am worried that the stick will just flop around but at the moment it is very strong and I am having to force it forward. This is not a problem with wing planes. It's a pity because the Logitech is perfect for my needs apart from the spring that needs an adjuster. If I cant get on with it I will get one of the two sticks you both recommended. My Saitek Cyborg Evo Force has been a great stick in previous sims but refuses to work with 2020 so I didn't want to purchase another stick to find that wont work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Founder Nels_Anderson Posted March 15 Founder Share Posted March 15 Just an additional note: the mod to the Logitech spring includes the option of just removing part of the spring, and not all of it, thus removing the excessive tension but not all of it. The spring is just a heavy piece of coiled wire. If you have a Dremel tool with a cutting wheel you can remove parts of it until you get the tension that you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhrogPhlyer Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 2 hours ago, Nels_Anderson said: If you have a Dremel tool with a cutting wheel Starts chanting "chain saw... chain saw...." Always Aviate, then Navigate, then Communicate. And never be low on Fuel, Altitude, Airspeed, or Ideas. Laptop, Intel Core i7 CPU 1.80GHz 2.30 GHz, 8GB RAM, 64-bit, NVIDIA GeoForce MX 130, Extra large coffee-black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazp Posted March 15 Author Share Posted March 15 Right then, I’ll spring into action with my angle grinder and show it who’s the boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperPilot2 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 We all suffered from the same issue and arrived at the solution in different ways. The cheapskate in me couldn't justify 'doing the deed' to my Logitech; it just works so well. The old Saitek Cyborg 3D fills the void nicely (zip tie spring compression + a little 'Simian Sponge' to keep everything tight). Older, used Joysticks are a dime a dozen out there provided 2020 recognizes them. Do newer versions of Windows and 2020 recognize Joysticks by Name/Brand or treat them as HID's (Human Interface Devices)? "I created the Little Black Book to keep myself from getting killed..." -- Captain Elrey Borge Jeppesen AMD 1.9GB/8GB RAM/AMD VISION 1GB GPU/500 GB HDD/WIN 7 PRO 64/FS9 CFS CFS2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ritcheyl Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 20 hours ago, PhrogPhlyer said: I can not answer to how well this would work in MSFS2020, but I have been using the MS Sidewinder Precision 2 joystick for helicopter flying since I purchased it in late 1998. This joystick has proven itself with the test of time. It is self centering, but the amount of force required to hold it off center in minimal, just enough to want to center, but not enough that I ever am fighting with it. This joystick is available on ebay between for $10-$30. I have never looked into another stick for helicopter flying as I have been completely happy with it. In the near future I will be modifying a joystick and separate throttle into a full size cyclic and collective. I will detail the mod (joys and frustration) and share here. When not using the Sidewinder 2 for fixed wing, I use either the CH Products Flight Sim Yoke, or a combo of CH Products Fighter Stick and Pro Throttle. I've also been using the MS Sidewinder 2 Pro. I've been using it since my FS 2004 days. I have other joysticks, but the Sidewinder works best with helicopters. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhrogPhlyer Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 1 hour ago, ritcheyl said: Sidewinder works best with helicopters Allows for smooth power application, and nice easy cyclic. Always Aviate, then Navigate, then Communicate. And never be low on Fuel, Altitude, Airspeed, or Ideas. Laptop, Intel Core i7 CPU 1.80GHz 2.30 GHz, 8GB RAM, 64-bit, NVIDIA GeoForce MX 130, Extra large coffee-black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 31 minutes ago, PhrogPhlyer said: Allows for smooth power application, and nice easy cyclic. As well as any I've found as well. Being an old chopper guy I usually fly low and slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperPilot2 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Off Topic, but anyone fly at .50 Zoom? I'm finding I don't need to fight the Joystick as much to stay Level compared to .75 or Normal View... "I created the Little Black Book to keep myself from getting killed..." -- Captain Elrey Borge Jeppesen AMD 1.9GB/8GB RAM/AMD VISION 1GB GPU/500 GB HDD/WIN 7 PRO 64/FS9 CFS CFS2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ritcheyl Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 12 hours ago, ViperPilot2 said: Off Topic, but anyone fly at .50 Zoom? I'm finding I don't need to fight the Joystick as much to stay Level compared to .75 or Normal View... Yes, I've been flying at .50 in the virtual cockpit for years. Better perspective and makes flying easier. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperPilot2 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 2 hours ago, ritcheyl said: Yes, I've been flying at .50 in the virtual cockpit for years. Better perspective and makes flying easier. Thanks for that! I only use it in 2D View or with the Minipanel I use. For Exterior Views (Landing, sightseeing, screenies) I use Normal View. vp² "I created the Little Black Book to keep myself from getting killed..." -- Captain Elrey Borge Jeppesen AMD 1.9GB/8GB RAM/AMD VISION 1GB GPU/500 GB HDD/WIN 7 PRO 64/FS9 CFS CFS2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhrogPhlyer Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 19 hours ago, ViperPilot2 said: fly at .50 Yeah, the M-2 .50 cal really can fly!!! 1 Always Aviate, then Navigate, then Communicate. And never be low on Fuel, Altitude, Airspeed, or Ideas. Laptop, Intel Core i7 CPU 1.80GHz 2.30 GHz, 8GB RAM, 64-bit, NVIDIA GeoForce MX 130, Extra large coffee-black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 12 hours ago, PhrogPhlyer said: Yeah, the M-2 .50 cal really can fly!!! Been there Done That! With Yankee Whiskey and Yankee Tango. 1 Being an old chopper guy I usually fly low and slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhrogPhlyer Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 2 hours ago, Rupert said: Been there Done That! With Yankee Whiskey and Yankee Tango. Semper Fi brother. BTW, in the photo I found, is that Marble Mountain? Always Aviate, then Navigate, then Communicate. And never be low on Fuel, Altitude, Airspeed, or Ideas. Laptop, Intel Core i7 CPU 1.80GHz 2.30 GHz, 8GB RAM, 64-bit, NVIDIA GeoForce MX 130, Extra large coffee-black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 On 3/23/2024 at 11:01 AM, PhrogPhlyer said: Semper Fi brother. BTW, in the photo I found, is that Marble Mountain? I don't think so. Marble Mountain wasn't really a mountain. In Kentucky I'm sure we'd even have called it a knob. But it was definitely a rise from the rest of the area and not nearly that populated. It also was surrounded by water on three sides. That view appears to be looking North and West on the coast and the water's edge of Da Nang itself. The outcropping at the top of the coast shown should lead to the base of a mountain range (whose name I can't recall) and was on the road way up to Phu Bai. Being an old chopper guy I usually fly low and slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ritcheyl Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 3 hours ago, Rupert said: I don't think so. Marble Mountain wasn't really a mountain. In Kentucky I'm sure we'd even have called it a knob. But it was definitely a rise from the rest of the area and not nearly that populated. It also was surrounded by water on three sides. That view appears to be looking North and West on the coast and the water's edge of Da Nang itself. The outcropping at the top of the coast shown should lead to the base of a mountain range (whose name I can't recall) and was on the road way up to Phu Bai. My youngest son lives in Da Nang and loves it. He teaches English. He's sent me a lot of pictures and it really looks nice. Probably a lot different since the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 24 minutes ago, ritcheyl said: My youngest son lives in Da Nang and loves it. He teaches English. He's sent me a lot of pictures and it really looks nice. Probably a lot different since the war. Actually Da Nang was a pretty nice city even back then. Lovely beaches. Lots to see and do and most of the general public was friendly to us. They were more scared of the Cong than they were us! And like most of Vietnam, there were almost as many people there who spoke French as spoke only Vietnamese. I always intended to go back there as a tourist but life and making a living got in the way. Being an old chopper guy I usually fly low and slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazerson Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 19 minutes ago, Rupert said: Actually Da Nang was a pretty nice city even back then. Lovely beaches. Lots to see and do and most of the general public was friendly to us. They were more scared of the Cong than they were us! And like most of Vietnam, there were almost as many people there who spoke French as spoke only Vietnamese. I always intended to go back there as a tourist but life and making a living got in the way. My aunt spent some time in Vietnam a while ago. It's really a beautiful country. 1 Photo Blog- Wings, Wheels, and Waves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ritcheyl Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 18 hours ago, Rupert said: Actually Da Nang was a pretty nice city even back then. Lovely beaches. Lots to see and do and most of the general public was friendly to us. They were more scared of the Cong than they were us! And like most of Vietnam, there were almost as many people there who spoke French as spoke only Vietnamese. I always intended to go back there as a tourist but life and making a living got in the way. I would like to travel over there to see him. The closest I've been to Vietnam was when I was stationed at Kadena AB in Okinawa from 1980-83. Got to go TDY to Clark AB a couple of times. Also 1 TDY to Kwang Ju Korea. I too have always wanted to go back for a visit, but life and the years have caught up with the wife and I. My wife isn't physically able to travel now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 On 3/23/2024 at 11:01 AM, PhrogPhlyer said: Semper Fi brother. BTW, in the photo I found, is that Marble Mountain? OK, After looking at your photo again and pulling up some old pictures of my own I'll give my opinion of what's happening. It appears to me, considering the altitude and the view looking aft, that flight was going South, probably from around Phu Bai or Hue to Chu Lai or so. They're probably hugging close to Da Nang so as to not interfere with flights in and out of Marble Mountain air space. Marble Mountain would be on their port side right about when the picture was taken. Michael 1 Being an old chopper guy I usually fly low and slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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