The Next Challenge...

[taoftedal]

31 minutes ago, TomPenDragon said:

No, I'm thinking of using the thread structure you suggested in your response to PhrogPhlyer's rules proposal, seeing what happens, and tweaking it for the next one.  The free (untimed) flights don't  need an OMO.  I'm concerned that a single OMO will end up having to spend all of their time poring through threads, extracting times, and updating leaderboards, and will have no time to fly.  Having one OMO per timed route (2 OMO's) would cut this burden in half.  I'm currently looking for a way to avoid burdening anyone with OMO duties, if we can figure out a way to do this.  So:

• A single OMO?
• One OMO per route (2 OMO's)?
• No OMO (everyone updates ther own times in a common document per route, if we can find a format that all can edit)?

I understand the thread structure that you're suggesting to be:

• GAAG
  • AUAOPA
  • East Coast
  • Free Flights

Do I understand you correctly?  Is this possible with the Forum software?

 

22 minutes ago, PhrogPhlyer said:

 

I think there needs to be someone monitoring the timed routes.

So two OMO's (Southern, Eastern), and three threads (Sothern, Easter, Free Flights).

I think the OMOs should manage the daily/bi-daily status sheets for consistency.

Entrants can participate in as many, or as few of the three options as they desire.

GAAG does end with Gaggle!

 

Not sure I'm proposing anything ... just thinking out loud.  One thread would keep us all together, but it may be very confusing to follow and very difficult for the OMO's.  Three distinct threads may be best.  One could combine the untimed with the timed on each of the two routes but I'm not sure the story lines would blend very well ... and may leave the poor free flight folks out in some weird sort of twilight zone.

 

Each of the timed events needs an OMO for sure.  It may be nice to have someone with the untimed keep track of folks ... but agree no formal OMO is needed.  Who signs up for what will be interesting ... 

[PhrogPhlyer]

I offer to take up the role of the Not Very Official But Quite Officious GAAG Free-flight Thread Coordinator (NVOBQOGFTC).

Basically I'll keep a list of airports and/landmarks visited that are documented with screenshots.

Let's see how much of OZ we can see as a group.

 

GAAG Free-Flight thread to be set up soon.

[taoftedal]

Just now, PhrogPhlyer said:

I offer to take up the role of the Not Very Official But Quite Officious GAAG Free-flight Thread Coordinator (NVOBQOGFTC).

Basically I'll keep a list of airports and/landmarks visited that are documented with screenshots.

Let's see how much of OZ we can see as a group.

 

GAAG Free-Flight thread to be set up soon.

 

Starting to sound like a plan ... TomP ... would you be willing to develop and post a sign-up sheet?  (I don't have a clue).

[JSMR]

Sorry guys. I’m been super busy, sick, and busy. So I’m out of this one.
 

Got a super busy schedule coming up. Might be hard to compete although it looks fun! 

[taoftedal]

1 minute ago, JSMR said:

Sorry guys. I’ve been super busy, sick, and busy. So I’m out of this one.  Got a super busy schedule coming up. Might be hard to compete although it looks fun! 

 

I've been thinking about where you had gone ... sorry to hear.  I was hoping for you to jump in and lead us out of the wilderness these past few days but I think we're making progress.  Take care mate ...

[TomPenDragon]

4 minutes ago, taoftedal said:

Starting to sound like a plan ... TomP ... would you be willing to develop and post a sign-up sheet?  (I don't have a clue).

Give me a few days and I'll try to come up with something simple (functional, not artistic) in Excel.  I'm still fighting COVID, and my brain's suffering CTD's every 5 minutes (kind of like Flightsim with some bad textures in the main folder), so that's why I'm not commiting to be an Officious Gaggle Official.

[taoftedal]

12 minutes ago, TomPenDragon said:

Give me a few days and I'll try to come up with something simple (functional, not artistic) in Excel.  I'm still fighting COVID, and my brain's suffering CTD's every 5 minutes (kind of like Flightsim with some bad textures in the main folder), so that's why I'm not committing to be an Officious Gaggle Official.

 

No problem ... get well ... and thank you.  To start it sounds like you can put PP down with the untimed as well as myself for now.  Don't worry about the OMO's ... they will rise to the top as the groups come together ... and hopefully you'll be feeling better by that point ... you would make a great OMO!

[ViperPilot2]

We have a problem...

 

As others have said, this Thread is being pulled in so many different directions and frankly, becoming very large and very, very convoluted. We're all throwing ideas at the wall, watching everything stick. Some want to start right away even though there has been substantial discussion about holding off starting the Event until mid to late January or even February so everyone can get through Holiday gatherings and Events. Timing vs. No Timing, 'free Flights', and we can't even decide on what Airplanes are going to be allowed... three different Referees?

 

I understand the need to make everyone happy, and give everyone the Event they want. Sometimes that's not the case.

[ViperPilot2]

1 hour ago, PhrogPhlyer said:

Sorry missed this one,

I would not have been in their shoes.

The whole story is quite an amazing adventure.

 

 

December 19, 1941

 

NC18602 departed Darwin, Australia the previous morning and proceeded to Surabaya, Netherlands East Indies. Before departing, Captain Robert Ford liased with the Dutch in order to land in Surabaya to procure Fuel, to which the Dutch attache replied that he would contact Surabaya and arrange for the Fuel transfer, providing Captain Ford with the 'proper' Recognition signals to communicate with the Dutch on Surabaya.

 

From the Pan Am Historical Foundation:

 

"As the Pacific Clipper approached the city, a single fighter rose to meet them; moments later it was joined by several more. The recognition signals that Ford had received in Australia proved to be in-accurate, and the big Boeing was a sight unfamiliar to the British pilots. The crew tensed as the fighters drew closer. Because of a quirk in the radio systems, they could hear the British pilots, but the pilots could not hear the Clipper. There was much discussion among them as to whether the flying boat should be shot down or allowed to land. At last the crew heard the British controller grant permission for them to land, and then add, "If they do anything suspicious, shoot them out of the sky!"

 

[taoftedal]

22 minutes ago, ViperPilot2 said:

We have a problem...

 

As others have said, this Thread is being pulled in so many different directions and frankly, becoming very large and very, very convoluted. We're all throwing ideas at the wall, watching everything stick. Some want to start right away even though there has been substantial discussion about holding off starting the Event until mid to late January or even February so everyone can get through Holiday gatherings and Events. Timing vs. No Timing, 'free Flights', and we can't even decide on what Airplanes are going to be allowed... three different Referees?

 

I understand the need to make everyone happy, and give everyone the Event they want. Sometimes that's not the case.

 

I'm certainly willing to take a step back but I've felt over the last week or so that a consensus was building, and it may be time to move forward and see what happens.  PP's summary is a good recap ... and attempts to lend some clarification to the concerns you have expressed ... but if you feel we should continue kicking the tires for a while ... no problem.

[TomPenDragon]

27 minutes ago, ViperPilot2 said:

As others have said, this Thread is being pulled in so many different directions and frankly, becoming very large and very, very convoluted. We're all throwing ideas at the wall, watching everything stick. Some want to start right away even though there has been substantial discussion about holding off starting the Event until mid to late January or even February so everyone can get through Holiday gatherings and Events. Timing vs. No Timing, 'free Flights', and we can't even decide on what Airplanes are going to be allowed... three different Referees?

 

I understand the need to make everyone happy, and give everyone the Event they want. Sometimes that's not the case.

I certainly understand your frustration.  Would you please summarize how you (without taking into account anyone else's thoughts and ideas) would like to see the Gaggle run?  I know you've probably said it all already but, like you said, the thread's gotten very large and convoluted.

[taoftedal]

13 minutes ago, ViperPilot2 said:

 

December 19, 1941

 

NC18602 departed Darwin, Australia the previous morning and proceeded to Surabaya, Netherlands East Indies. Before departing, Captain Robert Ford liased with the Dutch in order to land in Surabaya to procure Fuel, to which the Dutch attache replied that he would contact Surabaya and arrange for the Fuel transfer, providing Captain Ford with the 'proper' Recognition signals to communicate with the Dutch on Surabaya.

 

From the Pan Am Historical Foundation:

 

"As the Pacific Clipper approached the city, a single fighter rose to meet them; moments later it was joined by several more. The recognition signals that Ford had received in Australia proved to be in-accurate, and the big Boeing was a sight unfamiliar to the British pilots. The crew tensed as the fighters drew closer. Because of a quirk in the radio systems, they could hear the British pilots, but the pilots could not hear the Clipper. There was much discussion among them as to whether the flying boat should be shot down or allowed to land. At last the crew heard the British controller grant permission for them to land, and then add, "If they do anything suspicious, shoot them out of the sky!"

 

 

Wow ... I remember something about the story from somewhere ... has anybody written that book?

[ViperPilot2]

Just now, taoftedal said:

 

Wow ... I remember something about the story from somewhere ... has anybody written that book?

 

There have been several Articles written about the Pacific Clipper; the Book I first read was Ed Dover's

The Long Way Home. 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Long-Way-Home-Ed-Dover/dp/061521472X

 

At one point there was talk of a Film based on the story, but never came to fruition.

[taoftedal]

3 minutes ago, ViperPilot2 said:

There have been several Articles written about the Pacific Clipper; the Book I first read was Ed Dover's

The Long Way Home. 

 

Yes ... Ed Dover.  I must have read an excerpt somewhere.  Thank you.  I did read 'Night Over Water' by Ken Follett ... that was a disappointment.

[TomPenDragon]

1 minute ago, taoftedal said:

I'm certainly willing to take a step back but I've felt over the last week or so that a consensus was building, and it may be time to move forward and see what happens.  PP's summary is a good recap ... and attempts to lend some clarification to the concerns you have expressed ... but if you feel we should continue kicking the tires for a while ... no problem.

Earlier, I suggested a goal of the end of the week (Friday) for organizing.  We're trying to do something that can feel strange and uncomfortable to people.  We're a single-leveled group, not an organization (a disorganization?).  Leadership comes from talent, not a position in a hierarchy, and is situational.  We're blessed with some talented leaders, here, too; leaders who serve, rather than serve themselves.  Remember Set Theory from grade school?  Most of the time, teams focus on the narrow Intersection of ideas.  We're seeking to make a Union of all ideas and visions work.  It's tough.  It feels unnatural.  But as someone who made a pretty good living for 20 years making this style of work work, in my not-so-humble opinion, we're developing the way a group like this should - yeah, with all the chaos and everything.  I'm proud and thrilled to be a part of it - I was usually the consultant, on the outside looking in.  It's so much more fun (and tiring, and confusing, and frustrating, and all the rest) to be on the inside.  I can tell you, if we're able to pull it off, it'll be worth it.

 

Let's all be patient with each other, and with ourselves.  Let's give spitballing the structure a couple of more days, and formaliize it come Friday.  We already have a workable rules structure ready for adopting.  What of what we have so far doesn't work for everybody?

[ViperPilot2]

33 minutes ago, TomPenDragon said:

I certainly understand your frustration.  Would you please summarize how you (without taking into account anyone else's thoughts and ideas) would like to see the Gaggle run?  I know you've probably said it all already but, like you said, the thread's gotten very large and convoluted.

 

All I'm saying is that we need to start coming to a consensus of what we're gonna do before we start committing to things like how we're tracking the Progress of the Event. We need to decide what Route is going to be flown. We need to decide whether or not this is going to be a Competition or an Adventure; then the Choice of Airplane becomes moot because it's about the Flying experience. If it's a Competition then we have all of the pieces in place to make it so.

 

None of this can go forward until someone wants to pipe up, sit in 'the Center Seat', and take the Conn, so to speak. When PP asked to run the R66 Rally, I thought it would be really neat to have a different person run each subsequent Challenge/Rally/Race so hopefully we'd get a different taste each time. The Bendix was one, R66 another.

 

Frankly, it's not an easy Job. It takes much time and work to keep everything together and to keep track of everything and everybody. But, the pieces come together much easier when one person sets the Stage and the Tone of the Event.

 

It's ideal when everyone can agree, but I understand that it's difficult to please everybody.

 

 

 

 

[ViperPilot2]

32 minutes ago, taoftedal said:

 

Yes ... Ed Dover.  I must have read an excerpt somewhere.  Thank you.  I did read 'Night Over Water' by Ken Follett ... that was a disappointment.

 

Follett used the 314 as a Plot device to move the Story along. In The Long Way Home the 314 wasn't only a Character, it was the Crew's safe haven, and their Magic Carpet to get Home.

[taoftedal]

3 hours ago, ViperPilot2 said:

 

Follett used the 314 as a Plot device to move the Story along. In The Long Way Home the 314 wasn't only a Character, it was the Crew's safe haven, and their Magic Carpet to get Home.

 

Agree ... two completely different stories ... but you're being too kind to Ken ... now 'Hornet Flight' I really enjoyed.

[Bossspecops]

1 hour ago, ViperPilot2 said:

 

December 19, 1941

 

NC18602 departed Darwin, Australia the previous morning and proceeded to Surabaya, Netherlands East Indies. Before departing, Captain Robert Ford liased with the Dutch in order to land in Surabaya to procure Fuel, to which the Dutch attache replied that he would contact Surabaya and arrange for the Fuel transfer, providing Captain Ford with the 'proper' Recognition signals to communicate with the Dutch on Surabaya.

 

From the Pan Am Historical Foundation:

 

"As the Pacific Clipper approached the city, a single fighter rose to meet them; moments later it was joined by several more. The recognition signals that Ford had received in Australia proved to be in-accurate, and the big Boeing was a sight unfamiliar to the British pilots. The crew tensed as the fighters drew closer. Because of a quirk in the radio systems, they could hear the British pilots, but the pilots could not hear the Clipper. There was much discussion among them as to whether the flying boat should be shot down or allowed to land. At last the crew heard the British controller grant permission for them to land, and then add, "If they do anything suspicious, shoot them out of the sky!"

 

 

Oh yes, I flew that in FS9 with the Aerosoft (I think....) B314 Clipper, an amazingly good model with an immensely complex cockpit/panel. It took ages I recall, but was very interesting to see how they managed the fuel.

 

Might be worth trying that again if it'll work in FSX too. 

[ViperPilot2]

7 minutes ago, Bossspecops said:

 

Oh yes, I flew that in FS9 with the Aerosoft (I think....) B314 Clipper, an amazingly good model with an immensely complex cockpit/panel. It took ages I recall, but was very interesting to see how they managed the fuel.

 

Might be worth trying that again if it'll work in FSX too. 

 

Time, Speed and Distance; the Simmer's nemesis. At any given moment, one or a combination of the three conspire to mess with a Simmer's psyche...

 

"We're moving at a Snail's pace here. I wish we could go faster. Boy, this takes a lot of Time..."

[PhrogPhlyer]

2 hours ago, ViperPilot2 said:

NC18602

There is an article in the works, but as you can imagine, flying and documenting this, along with the writeup using FSX is a daunting endeavor.

[defaid]

5 hours ago, TomPenDragon said:

I'm concerned that a single OMO will end up having to spend all of their time poring through threads,

 

One thread solely for the times. Don't post anything else in there: no pirep, no discussion, no screenies.

 

Just the times.

 

The format is not really a matter for argument either:

 

Comp name

Leg name

Plan time

Actual time

V

 

That will cut right down on the amount of compulsory reading the poor OGO will have to face. Everything else goes in the story&screenie&discussion thread.

[ViperPilot2]

6 minutes ago, defaid said:

 

One thread solely for the times. Don't post anything else in there: no pirep, no discussion, no screenies.

 

Just the times.

 

The format is not really a matter for argument either:

 

Comp name

Leg name (From/To)

Plan time

Actual time

V

 

That will cut right down on the amount of compulsory reading the poor OGO will have to face. Everything else goes in the story&screenie&discussion thread.

 

Go one step further, and submit a PIREP via PM in the 'Time' Thread using your Template.

[defaid]

2 minutes ago, ViperPilot2 said:

 

Go one step further, and submit a PIREP via PM in the 'Time' Thread using your Template.

It'd certainly keep the forum cleaner. I think a scrollable series of stats would probably be easier to scan but with a lot of legs × a lot of entrants you're probably right -- it would become difficult for the OGO to pick up where they left off.

 

I guess the choice of format and delivery should be left to whoever has the unenviable task.

[jgf]

On 12/19/2023 at 2:31 PM, PhrogPhlyer said:

All I could find was the G-IV with deployed spoiler.

 

And here's a 650 with deployed spoilers, also rather large