The Next Challenge...

[defaid]

I have to get this off my chest. I've been growing increasingly frustrated over the last couple of weeks, watching bureaucracy first swamp and then subsume the original concept, very much like one man's faith can grow into a church with no connection to the god.

 

I've written half a dozen rants about this and not posted one. The last three challenges appeared, happened and settled without any of this. Now, who immediately thought "There have only been two?"

 

Can I ask each of you two things?

 

First, what do you want?

 

Second, how do you feel about joining a formal, rules based club with a named leader and a mission statement? I'm expecting at least one argument that the challenge group is now sufficiently complex to need proper organisation.

 

[ViperPilot2]

38 minutes ago, defaid said:

I have to get this off my chest. I've been growing increasingly frustrated over the last couple of weeks, watching bureaucracy first swamp and then subsume the original concept, very much like one man's faith can grow into a church with no connection to the god.

 

I've written half a dozen rants about this and not posted one. The last three challenges appeared, happened and settled without any of this. Now, who immediately thought "There have only been two?"

 

Can I ask each of you two things?

 

First, what do you want?

 

Second, how do you feel about joining a formal, rules based club with a named leader and a mission statement? I'm expecting at least one argument that the challenge group is now sufficiently complex to need proper organisation.

 

 

First... I'm gonna go back to my first posts from the Bendix:

 

"Just putting this out there to maybe drum up some camaraderie, friendly competition and a little fun between us Niners."

 

 

"See how easy this is, Folks? There aren't many Restrictions because this is supposed to be FUN. Just trying to create a friendly atmosphere and a little competition."

 

Second... I posed the Idea of starting a Club for our Challenges/Rallies/Races a Week or so ago, mainly because it would give us a separate venue to post without jamming up the regular Forum.

 

Being the Originator, I truly want to see this succeed. That's why in the Bendix, every request, issue or outright beef was settled quickly and without any drama; the OP of this Post made such a request himself during the Bendix. I initially intended to make this only open to Niners. Why? Because every other Sim Platform had Group Flights, Events, and were getting all of the Play. Nine was just sitting there, the ostracized, purple haired illegitimate Son. But when others asked to participate, I said yes, because of what I posted above, less the word "Niners".

 

Now, we have a Group using all of the Sims, and it's worked for R66 and the Airbasil Mini.

 

Why can't we find consensus with this one?

[Sirrus]

I'm with defaid on this.

 

Whoever started the thread should take control of all this rambling and come to a decision, or abandon the whole thing and start with a definite idea, not try to be all things to all men. Remember a horse designed by a committee is a zebra, not what was wanted at the start.

 

Now folks are on about the size of spoilers on a G4! What has that got to do with any challenge?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PhrogPhlyer]

 

40 minutes ago, Sirrus said:

not try to be all things to all men

This was the root of all evil here.

 

I am totally in favor of going back to what this started as, a rerun of the 1976 AU race,

All that would need to be decided is:

a) who will manage this gaggle,

b) original race model aircraft, or expanded set,

c) scoring (-1 + +1 = V0 or -1 + +1 = V2), and

d) start/end dates.

 

I'll rest now until consensus in reached for whatever this will become.

[jgf]

This grew beyond expectations and reached a point where we need to organize (a term I always approach with trepidation)

 

A few ideas

 

- A name for our endeavors;  this could preface, as initials or a single word, the title of all our threads to make them easy to find.

 

- A general thread for all discussion, separate threads for each flight

 

- A thread for descriptions, not discussions, of proposed flights;  this would be a place to scroll through and see just the maps and data

 

 

 

 

[jgf]

1 hour ago, Sirrus said:

a horse designed by a committee is a zebra

 

I thought it was a camel.  We'll have to form a committee to investigate this.

[defaid]

9 hours ago, ViperPilot2 said:

Second... I posed the Idea of starting a Club for our Challenges/Rallies/Races a Week or so ago, mainly because it would give us a separate venue to post without jamming up the regular Forum.

 

I hadn't seen your suggestion that we form a club: the comment was not aimed at you or the proposal. I'm sorry if I offended you, that wasn't my intention. It was just a complaint about what I perceive as the increasingly restrictive way the group is being moulded.

 

D

[defaid]

9 hours ago, PhrogPhlyer said:

 

This was the root of all evil here.

 

I am totally in favor of going back to what this started as, a rerun of the 1976 AU race,

All that would need to be decided is:

a) who will manage this gaggle,

b) original race model aircraft, or expanded set,

c) scoring (-1 + +1 = V0 or -1 + +1 = V2), and

d) start/end dates.

 

I'll rest now until consensus in reached for whatever this will become.

 

May I propose that JGF take the OGO cap as it was he who first mooted the event back in October? If that's not possible, both you and VP2 did a sterling job in the Bendix & R66.

 

I'd suggest that any plane is fair game but that some may not be eligible for one or more sub-challenges? I thought something like this:

 

Sightseeing: whatever will fit on the runway.

 

Regularity: GA only and from any year. (The suggestion is broadly in keeping with the RW event).

 

The east coast AB2, I guess should be commercial aircraft, and possibly above a certain empty weight. That's AirBasil_1's choice.

 

If you want a plain race then probably only 1976 entrants or the closest approximation. This is what I'll be doing. If it means I come last in the regularity, that's of absolutely no consequence: I'm here to have fun. I saw an entrants list and I have a fairly well developed small single-engined Piper, owned for years & never flown. Anyone else wants simply to see how fast they can go, please come along.

 

Per the Bendix, R66 and AB-mini, whatever weather you want - the story is the thing. Gusty crosswinds and zero visibility wins a bonus? It should at least cover the repairs.

 

I thought regularity scoring had been settled several posts back as -1 + +1 = 0.

 

I think I've seen several proposed start dates. I imagine that mid Jan would give us all time to get our sim in order and perhaps the end date should be after one month but again, deal with it on the fly. Do I recall the R66 being extended by a couple of weeks, meeting with no complaints?

 

Details are OGO's decision and with a little thought, could be made when issues crop up.

 

Argue for your limitations and, sure enough, they're yours.

 

The flying is what matters.

 

I've searched in vain for another Illusions quote - the follow-up to Don's complaint about the type of crowd that only wants the spectacle of miracles. Sometime later one or other of our boys realised that there's nothing wrong with going to the races to watch the crashes. Perhaps I just imagined it.

 

You know what? The revelation means that there's nothing wrong with fencing an event with rules and that too should be allowed to flourish, though that perhaps is more Pirsig than Bach and we may never get off the ground...

 

D

[jgf]

2 hours ago, defaid said:

any plane is fair game but that some may not be eligible for one or more sub-challenges

 

I propose that any flight is "Dealer's Choice".  This can be anything from a "spec" flight, everyone using the same aircraft, to an "unlimited" event where you fly whatever you like (would this include fictional aircraft?  sci-fi?).

 

For historic events I would think period aircraft would be appropriate, such as the actual entry list for our Australian flight;  or something like the first US transcontinental flight, flown by a Curtiss Condor, could be any twin engine commercial passenger plane of the era.  But for a flight someone has just created, the choice is theirs.

 

I respectfully decline any managerial nominations.  My organizational skills are such that I gladly paid a couple of hundred dollars extra every year to not have to sort business paperwork before taking it to my accountant.

[jgf]

2 hours ago, defaid said:

If it means I come last in the regularity, that's of absolutely no consequence: I'm here to have fun

 

Lol, you saw my performance in the last event.  But no one had more fun.

[PhrogPhlyer]

13 hours ago, PhrogPhlyer said:

a) who will manage this gaggle,

b) original race model aircraft, or expanded set,

c) scoring (-1 + +1 = V0 or -1 + +1 = V2), and

d) start/end dates.

OK, c) is settled.

4 hours ago, defaid said:

I thought regularity scoring had been settled several posts back as -1 + +1 = 0.

 

Now to nail down a), b) and d) from the various suggestions/clarifications.

[Rupert]

For the sake of simplicity why doesn't someone just list the start and end location of each leg and any specific routes required (if that is the case), Then just set a start date, finish date, and we can all commence the event after the holidays are over. 

 

The event, whatever it's called,  can then evolve based on each entrant's desires.  Some may just want to simply fly and look around, others might choose to keep exact charts noting time fuel etc., while others might choose to give lots of commentary and/or pictures.  Since it's all in fun, I see no wrong answer. 

 

 

[ViperPilot2]

"We were Dead; no Power or Phasers... useless. I stayed behind... Captain... 'last man aboard the ship'. That's what you're supposed to do, isn't it? And then, the Transporter went out... They're down there; I'm up here..."

 

By order of Starfleet Command, as of now, 1601z... I am assuming Command of this Vessel. Duty Officer, so note in the Ship's Log.

 

I'm going to leave this Thread OPEN for Recommendations, Comments and Suggestions until Monday 12/31/2023 @ 2300 MDT. At that point, I will LOCK this Thread. 

 

I will Post the Date and Details of the next Challenge on Friday 1/5/2024. 

[Rupert]

10 minutes ago, ViperPilot2 said:

"We were Dead; no Power or Phasers... useless. I stayed behind... Captain... 'last man aboard the ship'. That's what you're supposed to do, isn't it? And then, the Transporter went out... They're down there; I'm up here..."

 

By order of Starfleet Command, as of now, 1601z... I am assuming Command of this Vessel. Duty Officer, so note in the Ship's Log.

 

I'm going to leave this Thread OPEN for Recommendations, Comments and Suggestions until Monday 12/31/2023 @ 2300 MDT. At that point, I will LOCK this Thread. 

 

I will Post the Date and Details of the next Challenge on Friday 1/5/2024. 

GREAT!!

[Sirrus]

30 minutes ago, ViperPilot2 said:

By order of Starfleet Command, as of now, 1601z... I am assuming Command of this Vessel. Duty Officer, so note in the Ship's Log.

 

I'm going to leave this Thread OPEN for Recommendations, Comments and Suggestions until Monday 12/31/2023 @ 2300 MDT. At that point, I will LOCK this Thread. 

 

I will Post the Date and Details of the next Challenge on Friday 1/5/2024. 

Yes, about time too.

[jgf]

 

45 minutes ago, ViperPilot2 said:

I will Post the Date and Details of the next Challenge

 Is the next flight the Australia event?  or are we to be doing that now?

[ViperPilot2]

6 minutes ago, jgf said:

 

 Is the next flight the Australia event?  or are we to be doing that now?

 

I will review all of the Suggestions, Recommendations and Comments put forth and come up with Routing, Format and "Theme" of the Challenge. Based on the recent conversations in the Thread, we will be staying in Australia.

 

I will block ample time between the Announcement and the Start Date for Comments, Requests and for all interested to get all their ducks in a row before the Start.

[jgf]

My ducks died.

[ViperPilot2]

6 minutes ago, jgf said:

My ducks died.

Better find a Platypus, Wallaby, 'Roo, Koala or whatever Marsupial, then... that ain't my problem! 

 

 

[Sirrus]

36 minutes ago, jgf said:

My ducks died.

Oooh goody, Christmas dinner. Now all you have to do is pluck it and stuff it.

[defaid]

4 hours ago, ViperPilot2 said:

I will Post the Date and Details of the next Challenge on Friday 1/5/2024.

 

Thank you!

 

There's just time for the respray, break off the wings, stuff the whole lot into a crate, get the C-130 over to the UK from Toronto to pick it up, ship it round to the other side of the world, glue the wings back on, (no tape, just silicone sealant), do a quick test flight over Perth, have a go at offline FSRealWx Pro and decide how I'm getting over to Sydney.

 

Will you all be using SkyVector for planning? Do I need to get familiar with the site?

 

See you all there.

[PhrogPhlyer]

46 minutes ago, defaid said:

(no tape, just silicone sealant)

At least cover the seams with aluminum, 100mph tape. I've even "fixed" rotor blades in the field to get me home, So It definitely works!

[PhrogPhlyer]

OK, I think I'm getting a handle of where we are with the planning...

 

VP2 has command.

 

We are going to fly from somewhere to another somewhere in some aircraft at some time and do something with some others.

 

"I think I've got it!"

 

[Sirrus]

11 minutes ago, PhrogPhlyer said:

"I think I've got it!"

I hope its not infectious!

[ViperPilot2]

22 minutes ago, PhrogPhlyer said:

OK, I think I'm getting a handle of where we are with the planning...

 

VP2 has command.

 

We are going to fly from somewhere to another somewhere in some aircraft at some time and do something with some others.

 

"I think I've got it!"

 

 

Yes.

 

Yes.

 

Maybe...