It's Like Deja Vu All Over Again - MSFS 2024

[Nels_Anderson]

It's Like Deja Vu All Over Again

By Nels Anderson

Well, this certainly came out of nowhere:

 

 

With MSFS 2020 still regularly being updated and improved, and with the general understanding being there was a ten year plan to continue doing so, this announcement of a new stand-alone sim comes as a surprise. MSFS 2020 is still unfinished in some areas, so those who've bought into it expecting this to be resolved at some time have to wonder what work on this new sim means for the current one.

 

I've been around the flightsim world for most of those 40 years that Microsoft recently celebrated, and I must say this announcement seems like a return to the old days. All the way back to Flight Simulator 1 and through FSX, simmers could regularly expect a new version about every 2 to 3 years. Look at the sims that came out: FS98, FS2000, FS2002, FS2004, FSX, each just a few years apart.

 

Back in that golden era we expected a new version on a regular basis, and the hard-core fans would be at the software store (remember those?) on day one, money in hand, to grab a copy before the initial run sold out.

 

With this announcement, it seems like we may be returning to those days.

 

In reading some of the comments, I see people asking why an all-new sim is necessary when the features being advertised seem more like just an evolution of what is already in or promised for MSFS 2020. But thinking back to that golden era of regular releases that was pretty much true then; each sim brought improvements but rarely anything that was truly revolutionary.

 

There are still lots of questions to be answered about MSFS 2024 so it will be very interesting to see where this all leads.

[PhrogPhlyer]

3 minutes ago, Nels_Anderson said:

There are still lots of questions to be answered about MSFS 2024 so it will be very interesting to see where this all leads.

Concur.

[lnuss]

Thanks for letting us know, Nels. I certainly remember those golden years. I agree that this should be interesting -- is it still developed by the same outfit? Guess I should have watched the video first. They sure make it look good.

 

[PhrogPhlyer]

7 minutes ago, Nels_Anderson said:

I've been around the flightsim world for most of those 40 years that Microsoft recently celebrated

Took a while for this to sink in... 40 years? Where has the time gone?

I was using the first MSFS while flying off a flat-top in the Pacific.

Even with the original version, I practiced instrument approaches to airports days before we arrived, using whatever NavAid was available as if it was the one to be actually used.

MS Flight Simulator will always be a game to be explored and enjoyed as well as a real aviation tool, if you keep your mind open to the possibilities.

Happy Simming!

[hjcoelho]

Well,
I´m here since SubLOGIC Flight Simulator II running on a Commodore 64.
I´ve seen many of the versions being launched 2 years after each other. FS98 came just one year after FS for Windows 95.
And most of them did not have any backward compatibility.
Microsoft announced most of DLC should work in FS24.

So for me it´s not the case they lied when mention they´ll be here for 10 years. It´s seems this is a contract period between Asobo and Microsoft. They´re there to support Flight Fimulator franchise. This does not mean there won´t be new versions. Four years separation seems ok to me. The point that MSFS is unfinished may not be a valid argument. Most of the versions through the time have shown versions with many unsolved problems.

Here is my 2 cents: Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024 is not a brand new sim nor have significant changes compared to MSFS. They just put togheter a career mode with eye candy features ( Neofly already did it ) and wrapped this ans a couple of upgrades in graphics as a new version. It´s a business. And there´s the way to collect money from the existing client base. Asobo is saying they are supporting MSFS with roadmaps, city updates, world updates and avionics and this a proof that FS24 is not significantly different. So, it´s an update with a preice tage of a new sim.

FS24 may address some of the unfinished touches MSFS was supposed to have some point down the road. That would be another reason to force people migrate versions.
I´m not surprised with this announcement at all. Pure Deja Vu.

 

Cheers

Henrique 

 

[jgf]

Planned obsolescence.  Patches for an existing game are free, add those patches to the game and release it as a new version gets more sales.  As long as support continues for the "old" version for a reasonable time, it is an acceptable, if questionable, attitude.

 

 

[JSkorna]

Technology advancements. As technology advances, programs are written to take advantage of those advancements. They cannot be added as patches so code needs to be rewritten and this takes money.

[Rupert]

I sure hope this new product comes in a box with discs which I can use at my discretion without waiting for someone else to approve it!  

 

Tying up my computer for hours at a time while downloading a program, then downloading modifications or "updates," which really means corrections of their errors, on a continuous basis isn't my idea of enjoyment.  I/we shouldn't have to "log in" every time to use what I/we have already paid for!!

[Nels_Anderson]

12 minutes ago, Rupert said:

I sure hope this new product comes in a box with discs which I can use at my discretion without waiting for someone else to approve it!  

 

Tying up my computer for hours at a time while downloading a program, then downloading modifications or "updates," which really means corrections of their errors, on a continuous basis isn't my idea of enjoyment.  I/we shouldn't have to "log in" every time to use what I/we have already paid for!!

 

Sorry, but that just won't fly...

 

Buying software on a physical disk these days makes no sense. What you would get would likely be outdated the day you get it, meaning you have to do the lengthy install disk by disk, then immediately do it all over again as you download the updates.

 

It's often inconvenient and I don't care much for how companies treat us either, but if you want to play you have to live with it.

[jgf]

1 hour ago, Nels_Anderson said:

It's often inconvenient and I don't care much for how companies treat us either, but if you want to play you have to live with it

 

If you acquiesce at the start of such shenanigans you give these companies tacit permission to continue practices of which you disapprove;  and once they are established they do not care what you think.  So you then go along with them and monetarily support abhorrent business paradigms, or you ignore them and find your enjoyment elsewhere.  To each his own.

[JSkorna]

5 hours ago, Rupert said:

I sure hope this new product comes in a box with discs which I can use at my discretion without waiting for someone else to approve it!  

 

Tying up my computer for hours at a time while downloading a program, then downloading modifications or "updates," which really means corrections of their errors, on a continuous basis isn't my idea of enjoyment.  I/we shouldn't have to "log in" every time to use what I/we have already paid for!!

You are going to need to stick with your FS2004 then.

[JSkorna]

3 hours ago, jgf said:

 

If you acquiesce at the start of such shenanigans you give these companies tacit permission to continue practices of which you disapprove;  and once they are established they do not care what you think.  So you then go along with them and monetarily support abhorrent business paradigms, or you ignore them and find your enjoyment elsewhere.  To each his own.

And they don't care if you don't purchase their product. The world is a changin'. Either adapt to it or be left behind.

[Rupert]

23 hours ago, Nels_Anderson said:

 

Sorry, but that just won't fly...

 

Buying software on a physical disk these days makes no sense. What you would get would likely be outdated the day you get it, meaning you have to do the lengthy install disk by disk, then immediately do it all over again as you download the updates.

 

It's often inconvenient and I don't care much for how companies treat us either, but if you want to play you have to live with it.

I respectfully disagree.  And I think the successes of the business you founded and of many others such as ORBX, P3D, etc. prove my point. 

 

There are lots of people who like being able to "fly" whenever they choose and not depend on an outside source.  When you have a disc it is available for your use as and when you choose and you don't even need the internet,  Is it that disc ever perfect or even "up to date."  No it isn't.  But judging by all the hours upon hours of internet time and tons of "updates" MSFS inflicts upon its' users, MSFS isn't now and won't ever be perfect or up to date either.  Everyone using MSFS is effectively a "Charlie Tester."

 

I, and I'm sure lots of others, despite living near a major urban area, have terrible internet access.  It is faster than the old "dial-up" but still isn't by any means "fast."  And I'm told by my provider that my baud rate won't noticeably improve in the near future.  Should I choose another provider?  Sure there is some competition here.  But their service isn't any faster to where I live either.

 

I have read several comments to the effect there are days people, even those with super-fast internet, pretty much set aside for the MSFS updates.  (If I recall correctly, it's often a Saturday.)  Sorry that's not me.  I haven't "updated" or used my MSFS for months and am don't see any reason to anticipate I ever will again.

 

I still "play" with what I have and enjoy it  If I can buy newer discs, I will. But if I can't get new discs, I can quite happily live with that as well.

 

[Nels_Anderson]

I don't really see where you are disagreeing with me. I said that if you to play (i.e., play current 2023 software like MSFS 2020), then you need to accept that software no longer comes on disks, but requires that it be downloaded and will require updates/fixes be downloaded as well. That's the reality of how software is delivered.

 

Your reply seems to be that you have chosen not to accept this, and will essentially live in the past with software that does not require Internet access. You're in good company, as other flightsimmers have also chosen to stick with FSX, FS2004 or whatever.

 

There's good and bad to both choices. You have to choose what works for you. I enjoy visiting the past--would you like to see my vacuum tube collection? But I also enjoy using the latest software, like MSFS 2020, with its frequent upgrades/improvements.

[Rupert]

3 hours ago, Nels_Anderson said:

 

 I enjoy visiting the past--would you like to see my vacuum tube collection?

Funny you'd mention vacuum tubes.  I still have a pair of McIntosh "Hi-Fi" amps in which I replace the now hugely expensive tubes from time to time.  I also have two pairs of Bose 901 speakers to hear my LP records playing in various parts of the house.  

 

And yes, there's a "Small-Mouth" 1956 TR-3 among other older cars in my garage as well.  Those older cars are not my daily drivers, but are the rides which like "flying" with P3D I choose to use for enjoyment, not to be annoyed by.

 

When I buy something new, it's because I feel it's an improvement over what I already have.  And I'd be quite thrilled to get some new disc based flight-sim software.

[jgf]

On 6/21/2023 at 5:32 PM, JSkorna said:

Either adapt to it or be left behind.

"Adapt", or "kowtow"?

 

I want my software on a disc I can store safely and reinstall from that if/when necessary, instead of wasting hours to download the program again.  I want a finished project, not a perpetual beta.

 

Another facet of this download vs hard copy is when you, for whatever reason, want an older version of a piece of software.  I would like to try P3D, my system will run the previous version but not the new version, but the devs only release it as a download so I'm SOL.  If it had been on disc I could go on ebay or amazon and pick up a used copy. 

 

There was a time when manufacturers made what the public wanted, now they make what they want and tell the public "do it our way or do without".  This attitude could be quickly brought to a halt if the public said "fine, we'll do without".  But of course humans are well on the way to becoming invertebrates.

[JSkorna]

It's called the digital age for a reason.

 

Try to find a new music release on a CD.

 

Try and buy a main stream computer with a cd/dvd player installed as a default item.

 

Your wants are long gone and a minority. People today want streaming and downloads and that's what manufacturers are doing. I sure as heck don't want to drive to my local Best Buy, purchase a 10 dvd boxed program, drive home, start loading dvds, hope none of them are damaged, hope files are not corrupt, and hope that FS starts. And reinstalls? Forget that. One click of a button, walk away and come back in 30 minutes, a brand new FS, patched to the latest version, all set to use.

[jgf]

11 hours ago, JSkorna said:

Try to find a new music release on a CD.

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/b/music/_/N-8qi

https://www.amazon.com/music-cds-sale/s?k=music+cds+for+sale

https://www.fye.com/music/

 

There are still "old fashioned" albums being produced.

11 hours ago, JSkorna said:

come back in 30 minutes

Such optimism.  MS, with all the computer technology in the world, requires an hour to download, install, and configure a measly 15meg windows update;  I can imagine what a 4gig+ download would be.

 

Streaming services?  I have over 1000 DVDs of movies, documentaries, sitcoms, music, etc.;  I can watch any of these at any time at my leisure.  All paid for.  I would have to subscribe to a dozen streaming services, at anywhere from $10-$50/month each, in perpetuity, for such access ...if indeed they kept the programs available for more than a few months at a time.

 

  And access is a key issue.  I had one game that was d/l only; that computer died, I built a new one and returned to the devs' site to get the game again, only to find they had moved on and the site was no more.  The game was still available, from GOG or Steam, but I would have to purchase it again.  In much less time than it took to discover this I could have reinstalled from a disc.

 

It is all a matter of personal preference.  I prefer not to support companies whose business paradigms i find objectionable, and I know they do not care.  But I do.

 

("Ah, the people, give them a light and they will follow it anywhere.")

[JSkorna]

Good job. Your Amazon link pulls up CDs from 2015, 1999, and 2018. Find me a 2023 Taylor Swift CD.

 

I've never had a Windows Update take an hour, 10 minutes at most.

 

"Ah, give people fire and they will still live in a cold, dark house."