VR

[flightsimJim]

Any non VR flyers left? If so you don't know what you're missing out on. Before VR I used to spend most of my time tweaking and trying to get all my cockpit build just right ..now I just spend time flying. :)

[oneleg]

How are you connected to MSFS? Wifi (Oculus AirLink) or cable (Oculus Link)? Are you getting smooth and sharp video in MSFS?

[daspinall]

there are a lot of very happy VR users in fs2020 but not many on Oculus mostly Reverb G2. Oculus just don't cut the mustard when it comes to resolution......

[g7rta]

there are a lot of very happy VR users in fs2020 but not many on Oculus mostly Reverb G2. Oculus just don't cut the mustard when it comes to resolution......

 

I agree. I started with an Oculus Rift (CV1) and it worked reasonably well at the time, but the G2 is so much better.

I also have a Quest and Quest 2.. but only use the G2 for MSFS

 

Regards

Steve

Edited February 6, 2022 by g7rta

[daspinall]

I should have added I love my quest 2, I use it for the big screen and the odd game... Although you can use it in FS2020 you will struggle to see the small lettering on the gauges and finer detail, and that is were Reverb G2 wins the day....... I started with Quest 2 and I swear I was able to use it in the sim without a cable, and that's the only advantage over the G2 headset, which only works with a cable......

[lnuss]

Any non VR flyers left? If so you don't know what you're missing out on. Before VR I used to spend most of my time tweaking and trying to get all my cockpit build just right ..now I just spend time flying. :)

 

There are plenty of us remaining who don't mess with VR. When VR lets me reach my hand to the switches and knobs on the virtual panel, instead of having to occasionally look at the keyboard (mouse is very awkward and time consuming), and when it doesn't use a heavy contraption on my head, I might consider it. Meantime my TrackIR does very nicely for me looking around both in and out of the cockpit, and the small piece of metal to reflect my head position is less than an ounce and doesn't block my vision for keyboard and other things (phone ringing, drinking coffee, etc.).

[daspinall]

There are plenty of us remaining who don't mess with VR. When VR lets me reach my hand to the switches and knobs on the virtual panel, instead of having to occasionally look at the keyboard (mouse is very awkward and time consuming), and when it doesn't use a heavy contraption on my head, I might consider it. Meantime my TrackIR does very nicely for me looking around both in and out of the cockpit, and the small piece of metal to reflect my head position is less than an ounce and doesn't block my vision for keyboard and other things (phone ringing, drinking coffee, etc.).

 

Dam you don't play scrabble too! I could have been your copilot lol each to there own my mother use to say...... it's going to be an exciting year for VR and MSFS users, for me mostly DLSS but there are other developments in the pipeline...

[flightsimJim]

There are plenty of us remaining who don't mess with VR. When VR lets me reach my hand to the switches and knobs on the virtual panel, instead of having to occasionally look at the keyboard (mouse is very awkward and time consuming), and when it doesn't use a heavy contraption on my head, I might consider it. Meantime my TrackIR does very nicely for me looking around both in and out of the cockpit, and the small piece of metal to reflect my head position is less than an ounce and doesn't block my vision for keyboard and other things (phone ringing, drinking coffee, etc.).

 

Oh come on...you can't compare trackir to VR. I went from trackir to a full cockpit build with knobs and dials for the instruments, and 2 projectors to VR. My only reason to not go VR at first was I like to fly IFR, and like you thought it would be cumbersome. It's not ..you just turn the dials and knobs with your mouse while in VR. I have my trim and flaps on my yoke and good to go. Once they implement hand tracking it will be as good as the real thing....except you can fly EVERY plane...not just the one you built at home.

 

I can do everything in VR that I did with my home cockpit build. I just did an IFRil in the analog Cessna 172 tracking a VOR, captured the glide slope of the runway frequency and APR landed it on autopilot. It was awesome! But VR is so good that now I fly VFR as well ..never did that with my home cockpit build.

[chicagorandy]

There are plenty of us remaining who don't mess with VR. When VR lets me reach my hand to the switches and knobs on the virtual panel, instead of having to occasionally look at the keyboard (mouse is very awkward and time consuming), and when it doesn't use a heavy contraption on my head, I might consider it. Meantime my TrackIR does very nicely for me looking around both in and out of the cockpit, and the small piece of metal to reflect my head position is less than an ounce and doesn't block my vision for keyboard and other things (phone ringing, drinking coffee, etc.).

 

+1 - A VERY happy Track IR user here too. Also I recognize that the PC hardware of a lot of us use will not also support VR.

[PEIRascal]

I also do not like or use VR, but I am not about to discredit it. It is probably amazing to those that like it and all the power to them,

 

All I ask is that, I don not get told over and over about what I am missing because I choose to look at monitors.

 

Enjoy your sim in the way you get the most out of it.

 

Hal

[lnuss]

..you just turn the dials and knobs with your mouse while in VR

Did you read what I said about the mouse? I've tried using it in the VC and so I said:

 

(mouse is very awkward and time consuming)

 

And did you read what else I said?

 

and when it doesn't use a heavy contraption on my head, I might consider it.

 

And did it occur to you that perhaps I think much as Hal does when he said:

 

All I ask is that, I don not get told over and over about what I am missing because I choose to look at monitors.

 

We don't tell you that you should NOT use VR because it's not viable, rather we let you go your way and expect that you'll respect our thoughts and preferences and quit yelping that your way is the only way.

 

And I don't have a "home cockpit build," just a Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS and CH pedals, but the switches and knobs on the Warthog let me (mostly) keep my hands off of keyboard and mouse and THAT, along with the TrackIR to let me look around, makes it (for ME, not for YOU) a more believable experience to match my thousands of real world hours with automatic reactions to operate flaps, gear, lights, etc. etc. without groping around with a clumsy mouse, and without a heavy device on my head, and without having to buy a new computer (mine is 12 years old) to run a troublesome new sim that would FORCE me to upgrade and break new things even when I don't want to do so- I HATE! software that gives me no choice- so please respect the fact that not everyone wants or needs to do things YOUR way.

 

I understand and appreciate that you have chosen how you wish to operate, so PLEASE allow me the same courtesy.

[JSkorna]

Any non VR flyers left? If so you don't know what you're missing out on. Before VR I used to spend most of my time tweaking and trying to get all my cockpit build just right ..now I just spend time flying. :)

 

My 104 inch movie screen and projector would blow your VR out of the water.

[Aptosflier]

TrackIR does very nicely for me looking around both in and out of the cockpit, and the small piece of metal to reflect my head position is less than an ounce and doesn't block my vision for keyboard and other things (phone ringing, drinking coffee, etc.).

Agree, completely. TrackIR is immersive enough for me. I’ve read that MSFS will support those VR hand thingamajigs that let you manipulate knobs and whatnot, as opposed to mousing them. But that’s what I already have a flight yoke and a couple of Logitech instrument panels for…

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[daspinall]

I will tell you why I like VR..... As a young man early 20s computers had just hit the consumer market.... I bought my first computer and was hooked... FF a few years and tron came out, and the seed was set.... Wouldn't it be great to actually be submerged into the game world... Then later came 3D glasses that never cut the mustard and a huge disappointment to me and others... decades later we have VR, the day had arrived and you could totally submerge yourself into a game and really feel (visually) you were really there...... and that is what VR is all about, the next level of submersion, next will come the glove and body suite so you will have visuals and senses being able to react physically with your hands and body... glove are already on the market with bodysuits coming maybe this year....

 

I fly a mixture of screen and VR flying, I was never tempted to setup a tracking system as there were no submersion plus using a mouse had become natural to me by the time tracking came on the consumer market.... I do hope no one starts a stupid war against VR and tracking that would be rather childish don't you think...... How you choose to fly is your choice and no one else's You can match your yoke and throttle quadrant to match the controls in the sim so you don't have to slip off your VR to see the screen, that right there is a myth! The big difference between tracking and vr is, in tracing you are looking in to the flightsim world via screens, and that's ok for some... In VR you are submerged into the fs world looking out from the cockpit just like in the real world, and why I love it.... hope that helps....

Edited February 7, 2022 by daspinall

[lnuss]

Wouldn't it be great to actually be submerged into the game world...

Obviously you feel that way, and that's fine. My answer to that, though, is no.

 

I'm not a gamer, period. The one computer game that I enjoyed was the original Crowther & Woods Adventure, which was strictly text, beautifully crafted text in many places, and I could mentally visualize all of the elaborate descriptions, just as I could mentally visualize all the wonderful radio programs when I was a kid, before TV came to town.

 

I do hope no one starts a stupid war against VR and tracking that would be rather childish don't you think......

We certainly can agree on that. And I'd like to see the crusade against Non-VR use go away, too.

 

How you choose to fly is your choice and no one else's

Another statement on which we agree.

 

You can match your yoke and throttle quadrant to match the controls in the sim so you don't have to slip off your VR to see the screen, that right there is a myth!

I don't know where that notion came from. I don't have a "yoke and throttle quadrant," nor will I ever get one. My Warthog is more than adequate, and lets me (mostly, not completely) be HOTAS (Hands On Throttle And Stick), with flaps, gear, spoilers, bringing up the GPS display, certain major view changes (not all, darn it), and more right there under my hands without the need to look (mostly), adding to the illusion FOR ME. I've flown IRL so many different configurations of controls from front seat, back seat, left seat, right seat, stick, yoke, throttle push-pull on panel, throttle on sidewall (fighter and Cub style), throttle on quadrant, all with or without prop controls, some even without mixture controls, toe brakes, heel brakes, Piper's brake handle under the panel with no brake pedals, brakes and spoilers on a single handle on the sidewall (glider), carb heat on sidewall or on panel, trim on sidewall, on console, on panel or overhead crank, flaps as a switch on the panel, either with defined positions or hold to operate, flaps as a Johnson Bar on the floor, switches on the panel, overhead or in the wing roots or combinations, that the fact that they are stick/throttle mounted in the sim is immaterial to my immersion, whether a Cub or an L-39 or in between.

 

And what I have to be able to see is not the flight controls, but the keyboard in order to operate the view changes and other infrequently needed things that are not assigned to my Warthog's switches and buttons, along with my coffee cup and other things in the area, including real world charts when I occasionally use them. The mouse, as I said above a couple of times, is NOT a viable control mechanism (for me) for doing anything in the cockpit -- it ruins my illusion, distracts from my flying, and is clumsy.

 

In VR you are submerged into the fs world looking out from the cockpit just like in the real world, and why I love it....

No, YOU (and many others) might be "submerged into the fs world" but I would not be, any more than the Viewmaster 3D slides "submerge" me into the view, though it's pretty.

 

It's kind of like a very good friend of mine who bought a TrackIR on my report of an excellent experience, but who never could get used to it, could never make it become automatic, so he abandoned it. I had trouble understanding that, but it was an absolute fact that his mind operated in different ways than mine, in that respect. We're ALL different...

 

And finally, not everyone who is into one (or more) of these PC sims is a gamer. I don't do D&D, Minecraft or any of the other thousands of computer games that seem to attract so many people. I am there because of the simulation aspects, weak as they may be, but they are MUCH better than the butterfly chair, plumber's friend, cardboard boxes and a makeshift "instrument panel" that I put together as a kid- everything else, EVERYTHING, was mental, pretend, visual. With the PC sims I have much more than what I strove for back then, including so many real world memories that they can be "overlaid" on the PC sim experience to create immersion. VR would break that.

 

The above is ME, it's not anyone else, and I don't try to tell everyone else "you don't know what you're missing" by not doing it my way -- after all, your experiences are different from mine and your mind likely works different. When TrackIR came out, I did mention my favorable experience, and I suggested it as a possible aid when certain questions came up about people having problems seeing certain things, but I don't try to push it on others, unlike some here who rave about VR. That's fine for them, but don't push it on others.

 

Enjoy...

[daspinall]

Inuss I'm not addressing you personally as to aligning your yoke and throttles with the sim, it's in general to the entire conversation in the thread lol In Fact nothing I have expressed is toward you unless I mention you or any other member by name...... I just wanted to clear that up!

[lnuss]

Yes, thanks. I suspected it was a more general statement, and as I mentioned we agree on a lot, but there are some here who can't see that not everyone is the same, and don't seem to understand differences, so I used your comments to elaborate on the other views a bit, and on some pieces of WHY many people may see things in a different light. Sorry that I didn't clarify that.

[daspinall]

Yes, thanks. I suspected it was a more general statement, and as I mentioned we agree on a lot, but there are some here who can't see that not everyone is the same, and don't seem to understand differences, so I used your comments to elaborate on the other views a bit, and on some pieces of WHY many people may see things in a different light. Sorry that I didn't clarify that.

 

No worries..... I agree with your points too.... I can also, being a VR person, understand some of the others (VR newbees) when you first use this generation of headset, the experience can be (for want of a better analogy) like getting laid for the first time, and you wanting to shout it out to the world....

 

happy landings.....

Edited February 7, 2022 by daspinall

[Aptosflier]

I can visualize the benefits of using VR with MSFS 2020. I thought I would go this route, but that was before I discovered TrackIR. I like the idea of being totally immersed in the sim. At the same time, I worry about getting in too deep. I can picture myself with a headset on all day like characters in the VR film, "Ready Player One." And I don't want to go there. So in that sense, TrackIR is an acceptable minimalist solution for me. The other drawback for me is continued -- and increased --dependency on a mouse to manipulate control knobs and buttons. Now I handle most of the button mashing and knob turning with my Logitech radio and multi- panels. A certain amount of control mousing is still unavoidable, in particular "in" planes equipped with the G1000 NXi, which I "fly" more often than not. The lower-right MFD knobs for example become moving targets when I'm using TrackIR. I turn off TrackIR--to take my head movements out of the mix--before I go to the NXi MFD to set up a flight plan prior to takeoff. I worry about relying entirely on my mouse in VR to dial in ALT, VS, and HDG settings, all of which I can already handle with ease with my Logitech multi-panel. I can understand VR's attraction for many simmers. I was initially attracted to VR in concept. IRL, for the time being, I'm getting along fine without it. To each his/her own ... Edited February 7, 2022 by Aptosflier
Not finished

[flightsimJim]

Obviously you feel that way, and that's fine. My answer to that, though, is no.

 

I'm not a gamer, period. The one computer game that I enjoyed was the original Crowther & Woods Adventure, which was strictly text, beautifully crafted text in many places, and I could mentally visualize all of the elaborate descriptions, just as I could mentally visualize all the wonderful radio programs when I was a kid, before TV came to town.

 

 

We certainly can agree on that. And I'd like to see the crusade against Non-VR use go away, too.

 

 

Another statement on which we agree.

 

 

I don't know where that notion came from. I don't have a "yoke and throttle quadrant," nor will I ever get one. My Warthog is more than adequate, and lets me (mostly, not completely) be HOTAS (Hands On Throttle And Stick), with flaps, gear, spoilers, bringing up the GPS display, certain major view changes (not all, darn it), and more right there under my hands without the need to look (mostly), adding to the illusion FOR ME. I've flown IRL so many different configurations of controls from front seat, back seat, left seat, right seat, stick, yoke, throttle push-pull on panel, throttle on sidewall (fighter and Cub style), throttle on quadrant, all with or without prop controls, some even without mixture controls, toe brakes, heel brakes, Piper's brake handle under the panel with no brake pedals, brakes and spoilers on a single handle on the sidewall (glider), carb heat on sidewall or on panel, trim on sidewall, on console, on panel or overhead crank, flaps as a switch on the panel, either with defined positions or hold to operate, flaps as a Johnson Bar on the floor, switches on the panel, overhead or in the wing roots or combinations, that the fact that they are stick/throttle mounted in the sim is immaterial to my immersion, whether a Cub or an L-39 or in between.

 

And what I have to be able to see is not the flight controls, but the keyboard in order to operate the view changes and other infrequently needed things that are not assigned to my Warthog's switches and buttons, along with my coffee cup and other things in the area, including real world charts when I occasionally use them. The mouse, as I said above a couple of times, is NOT a viable control mechanism (for me) for doing anything in the cockpit -- it ruins my illusion, distracts from my flying, and is clumsy.

 

 

No, YOU (and many others) might be "submerged into the fs world" but I would not be, any more than the Viewmaster 3D slides "submerge" me into the view, though it's pretty.

 

It's kind of like a very good friend of mine who bought a TrackIR on my report of an excellent experience, but who never could get used to it, could never make it become automatic, so he abandoned it. I had trouble understanding that, but it was an absolute fact that his mind operated in different ways than mine, in that respect. We're ALL different...

 

And finally, not everyone who is into one (or more) of these PC sims is a gamer. I don't do D&D, Minecraft or any of the other thousands of computer games that seem to attract so many people. I am there because of the simulation aspects, weak as they may be, but they are MUCH better than the butterfly chair, plumber's friend, cardboard boxes and a makeshift "instrument panel" that I put together as a kid- everything else, EVERYTHING, was mental, pretend, visual. With the PC sims I have much more than what I strove for back then, including so many real world memories that they can be "overlaid" on the PC sim experience to create immersion. VR would break that.

 

The above is ME, it's not anyone else, and I don't try to tell everyone else "you don't know what you're missing" by not doing it my way -- after all, your experiences are different from mine and your mind likely works different. When TrackIR came out, I did mention my favorable experience, and I suggested it as a possible aid when certain questions came up about people having problems seeing certain things, but I don't try to push it on others, unlike some here who rave about VR. That's fine for them, but don't push it on others.

 

Enjoy...

 

How can you know any of this and never tried VR?

[mallcott]

I can visualize the benefits of using VR with MSFS 2020. I thought I would go this route, but that was before I discovered TrackIR. I like the idea of being totally immersed in the sim. At the same time, I worry about getting in too deep. I can picture myself with a headset on all day like characters in the VR film, "Ready Player One." And I don't want to go there. So in that sense, TrackIR is an acceptable minimalist solution for me. The other drawback for me is continued -- and increased --dependency on a mouse to manipulate control knobs and buttons. Now I handle most of the button mashing and knob turning with my Logitech radio and multi- panels. A certain amount of control mousing is still unavoidable, in particular "in" planes equipped with the G1000 NXi, which I "fly" more often than not. The lower-right MFD knobs for example become moving targets when I'm using TrackIR. I turn off TrackIR--to take my head movements out of the mix--before I go to the NXi MFD to set up a flight plan prior to takeoff. I worry about relying entirely on my mouse in VR to dial in ALT, VS, and HDG settings, all of which I can already handle with ease with my Logitech multi-panel. I can understand VR's attraction for many simmers. I was initially attracted to VR in concept. IRL, for the time being, I'm getting along fine without it. To each his/her own ...

 

I concur - VR is not YET fit for purpose. Give it another iteration or two (maybe three) and it will be at least up to the current level of in-cockpit representation - if not beyond. Then way may ALL decide to go VR... But not yet.

[g7rta]

I concur - VR is not YET fit for purpose. Give it another iteration or two (maybe three) and it will be at least up to the current level of in-cockpit representation - if not beyond. Then way may ALL decide to go VR... But not yet.

 

I concur with FlightSimJim. Have you tried VR for yourself?

I have had two versions of Trackir. I used them for years and thought they were brilliant. When MSFS came along, I invested in three 43” screens.. three Saitek panels.. plus a multipanel!

Just a few months later, I bought a Reverb G2 - my screens & gauges are now obselete (not to mention my TrackIR)

 

 

Regards

Steve

[flightsimJim]

I concur - VR is not YET fit for purpose. Give it another iteration or two (maybe three) and it will be at least up to the current level of in-cockpit representation - if not beyond. Then way may ALL decide to go VR... But not yet.

 

I tried everything and imo the best way to fly (IFR with approach plates) is a home cockpit build with functioning knobs and dials...and a wrap around screen..but if you are in VR and just want to hit approaches you can get VOR, ILS frequencies and GPS waypoints from the Garmin in game. I imagine at some point MSFS could introduce an in game tablet with all the plates so that will be great for VR..as will hand tracking. I think flyinside or aerofly have this? Hand tracking (sans controllers) will really take VR to the next level. So really VR is the way to go unless you are reading approach plates, SIDS, stars while in flight.

 

BTW for VFR flying it's VR all day long no comparison.

[flightsimJim]

I concur with FlightSimJim. Have you tried VR for yourself?

I have had two versions of Trackir. I used them for years and thought they were brilliant. When MSFS came along, I invested in three 43” screens.. three Saitek panels.. plus a multipanel!

Just a few months later, I bought a Reverb G2 - my screens & gauges are now obselete (not to mention my TrackIR)

 

 

Regards

Steve

 

Ditto...had dual projectors and 10 saitek FIPS, BIP panel, multipanel, a radio panel, switch panel and now they are all collecting dust bunnies.

[lnuss]

How can you know any of this and never tried VR?

 

How can I KNOW that with that gadget on my head that I would NOT be able to see my charts and coffee? How can I know that using the mouse for control functions is clumsy, awkward, time consuming? If you think real hard, maybe you can figure it out.

 

So let it be. I've told you my view, it doesn't affect you, so let it be.

Edited February 8, 2022 by lnuss