jparnold Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) I have read the included scenery which will come with MFS2020 and it isn't very extensive. I think there is only one airport in Australia (Sydney - YSSY). (added later) Whoops where did I read that as now I see in an online preorder that there are "with over 37 thousand airports" Where can I find a list of what those airports are? Is there documentation on what files will contain scenery and their 'architecture'. Can't wait for 18 August (do I have that date correct?). Thanks Edited July 29, 2020 by jparnold whoops John Gigabyte Z390 UD Intel Core i7-9700K 3.60 Ghz Dual 16Gb DDR4 2666 Gigabyte RTX2060 OC 6GB 2 X 256MB SSD drives 1 X 500GB HDD Windows 10 64bit Home Logitech Extreme 3D Pro joystick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 There isn't a public list of the 37,000 airports that are included, only the ones that have been manually enhanced. https://flightsimulator.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360015204020-Microsoft-Flight-Simulator-Pre-order-FAQ Similarly, there are no public details about how the sim's airports and scenery files work. The SDK is still in development and only available to some third party developers who are under NDA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kapitan Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) Whats the point of having 37,000 airports if you can only take off/land from 30 Also, I bought the standard edition. Should I expect that MS or third parties will be releasing paywares of additional airports? can i buy separately those in deluxe premium? It seems MS is preparing the field for a "if you want it?, pay for it" or stay with the standard factory setting. I dont think the sim will be friendly to freewares Edited July 29, 2020 by Kapitan Kapitan Anything I say is...not as serious as you think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) Whats the point of having 37,000 airports if you can only take off/land from 30 No, you can fly from all of the airports. The ones they listed in the FAQ are the ones they have manually enhanced with custom terminals, towers etc., while the rest are more basic and use more generic assets. Edited July 29, 2020 by loki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jparnold Posted July 29, 2020 Author Share Posted July 29, 2020 I have read the included scenery which will come with MFS2020 and it isn't very extensive. I think there is only one airport in Australia (Sydney - YSSY). (added later) Whoops where did I read that as now I see in an online preorder that there are "with over 37 thousand airports" Where can I find a list of what those airports are? Is there documentation on what files will contain scenery and their 'architecture'. Can't wait for 18 August (do I have that date correct?). Thanks Well after just reading some more information in this forum maybe I WILL wait. I enjoy flying in Australia (where I live) but with only one flyable airport (Sydney YSSY) it will be boring (flight plan YSSY > SYYS). Also no B728 aircraft. Disappointing. John Gigabyte Z390 UD Intel Core i7-9700K 3.60 Ghz Dual 16Gb DDR4 2666 Gigabyte RTX2060 OC 6GB 2 X 256MB SSD drives 1 X 500GB HDD Windows 10 64bit Home Logitech Extreme 3D Pro joystick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g7rta Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) but with only one flyable airport (Sydney YSSY). I think you’ll find most (if not all) airports in Australia will be included and flyable, just like all the other airports worldwide :) Sydney will be the only “hand crafted†airport, but all the others will have generic buildings etc. You can still take off & land from all of them. Here in the UK, the only handmade airport we be Heathrow. All the others are still included though Regards Steve Edited July 29, 2020 by g7rta Intel I9-13900K - Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX - 64Gb DDR5 5600Mhz - Asus RTX4090 ROG STRIX 24GB 3x 43” Panasonic 4k TVs - Corsair RMx 1200W PSU - 2 x 2TB M.2, 2 x 4TB SATA III and 1 x 4TB M.2 SSDs. Pico 4 VR Headset - Honeycomb Alpha Yoke - Honeycomb Bravo Throttle Unit Thrustmaster TPR Rudder Pedals - Saitek Throttles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 Well after just reading some more information in this forum maybe I WILL wait. I enjoy flying in Australia (where I live) but with only one flyable airport (Sydney YSSY) it will be boring (flight plan YSSY > SYYS). Also no B728 aircraft. Disappointing. Not sure what info you have been reading, but either it is incorrect or you have misunderstood it. All of those 37,000 airports are available to fly from, and it will include many, if not, most of the airports in Australia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 I would highly recommend that you watch the Feature Discover series on YouTube. I've linked the one on airports below, and from there you should be able to link to the others. If needed, you can turn on the YouTube captions to help with the accent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jparnold Posted July 29, 2020 Author Share Posted July 29, 2020 Thanks Steve That makes a lot of sense. Looking forward to getting it now. John Gigabyte Z390 UD Intel Core i7-9700K 3.60 Ghz Dual 16Gb DDR4 2666 Gigabyte RTX2060 OC 6GB 2 X 256MB SSD drives 1 X 500GB HDD Windows 10 64bit Home Logitech Extreme 3D Pro joystick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRJ_simpilot Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 When you think about it, and from me knowing some of the internals of FS2004 and FSX, those two Sims also had "enhanced" airports versus the others. I say that because in the object libraries for these two Sims have custom airport buildings and what not for certain airports but not others. I think O'hare might be one. I'd have to dive into the object libraries again to see. So by this fact, it only makes sense that this new Sim would have certain "enhanced" airports versus the others which will all be generic. Though, I suppose these generic airports in "FS2020" will be a heck of a lot better looking then what was in FS2004 and FSX. To be honest, adding 30 "enhanced" airports is pretty decent. I don't even think FS2004 or FSX had that many "enhanced" airports. The other thing here is that to enhance over 30,000 airports would be a massive undertaking. So that's why only 30 most popular take off and land destinations would be enhanced and the thousands of other airports left as generic. Perhaps Microsoft will offer paid-for airport upgrades, but I think it's safe to say, as was the case with FS2004 and FSX, third-party add-on developers will offer their line of "enhanced" airports for purchase. And it's also true this leaves room for us that like to customize airports with a CAD-like program such as ADE or AFX. OOM errors? Read this. What the squawk? An awesome weather website with oodles of Info. and options. Wile E. Coyote would be impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jparnold Posted July 29, 2020 Author Share Posted July 29, 2020 Very correct. I do remember Sydney scenery had the Harbour Bridge, Opera House, Centrepoint Tower etc as well as the airport control tower depicted just as it is. I too am sure that once the SDK is released we will see lots of enhanced airports as freeware or shareware, and maybe even I will 'dapple' especially my photo realistic CAX3 scenery which I did for FSX aqo few years ago - 3rd party scenery producers may already be working on them. John Gigabyte Z390 UD Intel Core i7-9700K 3.60 Ghz Dual 16Gb DDR4 2666 Gigabyte RTX2060 OC 6GB 2 X 256MB SSD drives 1 X 500GB HDD Windows 10 64bit Home Logitech Extreme 3D Pro joystick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobalt Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Very correct. I do remember Sydney scenery had the Harbour Bridge, Opera House, Centrepoint Tower etc as well as the airport control tower depicted just as it is. I too am sure that once the SDK is released we will see lots of enhanced airports as freeware or shareware, and maybe even I will 'dapple' especially my photo realistic CAX3 scenery which I did for FSX aqo few years ago - 3rd party scenery producers may already be working on them. I think you have a basic misunderstanding of what the scenery in FS2020 actually entails. It is a 3D representation of the entire globe as it actually is, based on satellite imagery coupled with advanced techniques for rendering full 3D dimensionality. The "enhanced" airports you refer to have features such as detailed ground handling and so forth; the other 37,000 airports will lack these special features, but will still appear very similar to what they are in real life -- no "generic" stuff. Autogen is a thing of the past, as is the old "photoreal" which, of course, is entirely flat. We are about to enter a whole new era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jparnold Posted July 31, 2020 Author Share Posted July 31, 2020 I think you have a basic misunderstanding of what the scenery in FS2020 actually entails. It is a 3D representation of the entire globe as it actually is, based on satellite imagery coupled with advanced techniques for rendering full 3D dimensionality. The "enhanced" airports you refer to have features such as detailed ground handling and so forth; the other 37,000 airports will lack these special features, but will still appear very similar to what they are in real life -- no "generic" stuff. Autogen is a thing of the past, as is the old "photoreal" which, of course, is entirely flat. We are about to enter a whole new era. Maybe I have a misunderstanding. I realise that the 'other 37,000 airports will lack these features'. YES the scenery will be 3D and contain a lot more detail and no autogen. BUT yes the other 37,000 airports will lack the features of the enhanced airports. I used the example of Sydney buildings as an example of FSX enhanced airports as most if not all regional airports have little or no buildings (in FSX). But if no autogen what will we 'see' flying over country BETWEEN airports? Surely the entire world has not been 'mapped' for vegetation etc. I would hate to think of the storage space required for files if it is. Australia (and USA as well) has a very diverse vegetation ranging from dense rainforest to desert with all 'ranges' in between ie the forested area doesn't change immediately to arid and then to desert and what about the area near where I live where the only Wollemi Pine trees in the world reaching 82–131 ft tall (one of the world's oldest and rarest plants dating back to the time of the dinosaurs) are located and have a distinctive colour and shape of both tree and foliage making it stand out from the surrounding vegetation - hard to explain what I mean. I guess I will find out after 18 August. John Gigabyte Z390 UD Intel Core i7-9700K 3.60 Ghz Dual 16Gb DDR4 2666 Gigabyte RTX2060 OC 6GB 2 X 256MB SSD drives 1 X 500GB HDD Windows 10 64bit Home Logitech Extreme 3D Pro joystick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 But if no autogen what will we 'see' flying over country BETWEEN airports? Surely the entire world has not been 'mapped' for vegetation etc. I would hate to think of the storage space required for files if it is. Australia (and USA as well) has a very diverse vegetation ranging from dense rainforest to desert with all 'ranges' in between ie the forested area doesn't change immediately to arid and then to desert and what about the area near where I live where the only Wollemi Pine trees in the world reaching 82–131 ft tall (one of the world's oldest and rarest plants dating back to the time of the dinosaurs) are located and have a distinctive colour and shape of both tree and foliage making it stand out from the surrounding vegetation - hard to explain what I mean. I guess I will find out after 18 August. That is exactly what they have been doing. As I mentioned earlier, you should watch all of their Feature Discovery Episodes on YouTube. Below is the first one that describes how they have been re-creating the world in the sim. This includes mapping the location of trees and other vegetation coverage for the entire world, and using Azure AI to generate realistic buildings using the building footprints available from different data sources. It won't be perfect, and may not have rare trees specific to one location, at least not yet, but it is a far more complete world than any previous sim has built. And there is a reason that the data for this is being streamed from their servers as, like you rightly point out, it takes a lot of data to do this. After watching this, you really should go and watch the rest. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jparnold Posted July 31, 2020 Author Share Posted July 31, 2020 That is truely amazing. The software engineers have done a great job. I was every interested in the section on impact to the internet (connection) and was glad that I have unlimited download and recently been able to connect via fibre optic cable but it will all work (with less real detail) without an internet connection. Where do I locate the rest (After watching this, you really should go and watch the rest)? John Gigabyte Z390 UD Intel Core i7-9700K 3.60 Ghz Dual 16Gb DDR4 2666 Gigabyte RTX2060 OC 6GB 2 X 256MB SSD drives 1 X 500GB HDD Windows 10 64bit Home Logitech Extreme 3D Pro joystick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g7rta Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 (edited) you might find this interesting too... (it shows parts of Australia) Regards Steve Edited July 31, 2020 by g7rta Intel I9-13900K - Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX - 64Gb DDR5 5600Mhz - Asus RTX4090 ROG STRIX 24GB 3x 43” Panasonic 4k TVs - Corsair RMx 1200W PSU - 2 x 2TB M.2, 2 x 4TB SATA III and 1 x 4TB M.2 SSDs. Pico 4 VR Headset - Honeycomb Alpha Yoke - Honeycomb Bravo Throttle Unit Thrustmaster TPR Rudder Pedals - Saitek Throttles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Where do I locate the rest (After watching this, you really should go and watch the rest)? The rest of the videos should come up as the watch next. Here's a link to the Feature Discovery playlist. Also check out the rest of the official MSFS channel too. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqONzeACDBaF6FfKjh7ndAQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jparnold Posted July 31, 2020 Author Share Posted July 31, 2020 you might find this interesting too... (it shows parts of Australia) Regards Steve Thanks for that video which was great to watch, however after watching that I am NOT impressed with how Sydney Harbour Bridge is represented which is nothing like it really is and I would have thought that such an iconic bridge that it would be. Maybe I have misunderstood how 2020 produces 'realistic' scenery but even in another leading flight simulator using stock scenery the bridge is represented quite well (but not other scenery). At least the iconic Sydney Opera House is well done in 2020. See below (the first two images from the 2020 video of Australia scenes and the second two from another) - John Gigabyte Z390 UD Intel Core i7-9700K 3.60 Ghz Dual 16Gb DDR4 2666 Gigabyte RTX2060 OC 6GB 2 X 256MB SSD drives 1 X 500GB HDD Windows 10 64bit Home Logitech Extreme 3D Pro joystick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kapitan Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 For more australian airports ORBX have nearly all, many freewares, and they are official MSFS2020 partners so.... Kapitan Anything I say is...not as serious as you think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jparnold Posted July 31, 2020 Author Share Posted July 31, 2020 According to their website ORBX do NOT have any 2020 scenery and I'm not surprised since 2020 isn't released as yet. They only list FSX/P3D and XPlane. In any case why is the Opera house rendered very closely to the real thing but not the iconic Harbour Bridge. Even the buildings on the west side of Circular Quay (adjacent to the Harbour Bridge) aren't anything like they are. That is the point I am trying to make especially after watching the video on how buildings etc are supposed to be rendered to closely match the real ones especially with internet connection. Don't get me wrong I cannot wait to get my hands on 2020 but I was just a little disappointed with what the video showed of the Sydney harbour area. Maybe Orbx will release better scenery. I hope so as VFR in Sydney will leave some things to the imagination, that is if you are familiar with the area as I am. John Gigabyte Z390 UD Intel Core i7-9700K 3.60 Ghz Dual 16Gb DDR4 2666 Gigabyte RTX2060 OC 6GB 2 X 256MB SSD drives 1 X 500GB HDD Windows 10 64bit Home Logitech Extreme 3D Pro joystick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jparnold Posted August 2, 2020 Author Share Posted August 2, 2020 Oh how I hope that someone develops CAD-like programs such as ADE (Airport Design Editor mainly for airports) and SBX (SBuilderX mainly for scenery) which I have used HEAPS in the past and had heaps of fun using) to change/enhance existing scenery and create some airports never created by Microsoft or 3rd parties. John Gigabyte Z390 UD Intel Core i7-9700K 3.60 Ghz Dual 16Gb DDR4 2666 Gigabyte RTX2060 OC 6GB 2 X 256MB SSD drives 1 X 500GB HDD Windows 10 64bit Home Logitech Extreme 3D Pro joystick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mallcott Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 Oh how I hope that someone develops CAD-like programs such as ADE (Airport Design Editor mainly for airports) and SBX (SBuilderX mainly for scenery) which I have used HEAPS in the past and had heaps of fun using) to change/enhance existing scenery and create some airports never created by Microsoft or 3rd parties. The rash assumptiion is assuming there is any intention to allow the aftermarket access to after market. I see no indication thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Wensley Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 Whether or not I buy will be decided by a screenshot of Rockcliffe CYRO in Ottawa, Canada. If it resembles the actual airfield (doesn't have to be totally identical, and I would be astounded if it was!) then great. If it is unrecognisable..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jparnold Posted August 2, 2020 Author Share Posted August 2, 2020 The rash assumptiion is assuming there is any intention to allow the aftermarket access to after market. I see no indication thus far. I think you may be very correct but I hope not. John Gigabyte Z390 UD Intel Core i7-9700K 3.60 Ghz Dual 16Gb DDR4 2666 Gigabyte RTX2060 OC 6GB 2 X 256MB SSD drives 1 X 500GB HDD Windows 10 64bit Home Logitech Extreme 3D Pro joystick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plainsman Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 I am not sure speculative negativity is very helpful? We have been told a SDK is coming and there are already some 300 vendors in the pre-release loop. MSFS has always relied on the community to provide quality freeware enhancement. Why would that change in this addition? I7-9700K, RTX-2070, Asus Strix Z-390-H MB, 32gb G Skill 3000 CL15, Corsair Obsidian 750D case, WD Black 1tb M.2, Crucial CT500MX SSD, Seasonic Prime 750W Titanium PSU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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