The Next Generation of Sims-Which will take off?

[Elvensmith]

Trial/early access status apart, when I checked the stats for FSW on Steam Spy a day or two ago, the maximum concurrent daily players was less than 100. Obviously that doesn't include off-line players (as pointed out to me in no uncertain terms by the fanbois at A...m when I posted in similar vein) or the total number who played it over the 24 hour period. However IMHO it doesn't bode at all well for DTG's efforts, when XP11 had nearly 6x as many max concurrent players and FSX SE had in excess of 3k players at any one time.

 

Hopefully DTG can push things forward quickly and start including some of the features (and more) we expect in FSX - default jetliners (even given all the flaws) for one. Otherwise FSW is definitely looking like the runt of the litter.

[tiger1962]

Patience is a virtue, Vern. I don't want any default jetliners with flaws, I want them right first time - however long that takes. And I think they will be right first time, because DTG seems to have put Software Engineers in control of FSW instead of Accountants, who are royally screwing it up everywhere else for everyone else - and costing lives in the process - quickest and cheapest, at all costs. If you can't wait, move on.

[Elvensmith]

Well hopefully they have a better team working on FSW than those who made such a pig's ear of Train Sim World. However they need to get the numbers up to make it an appealing and viable platform for the third party devs who would be creating the jetliners I and many others actually want to use in the sim.

[evm]

Well hopefully they have a better team working on FSW than those who made such a pig's ear of Train Sim World. However they need to get the numbers up to make it an appealing and viable platform for the third party devs who would be creating the jetliners I and many others actually want to use in the sim.

 

IMHO the issue here is, that there is a guard at the door. The only way to get the SDK is though the DTG 3rd party team, which seems to be overwhelmed currently. They decide if you get access, and I am worried that they may be evaluating products for their viability too. So it may happen that a 3rd party dev actually wants to develop for FSW, but he isn't allowed, because his products would clash with DTGs own plans or concepts. This certainly isn't a "developers platform" like FSX, P3D or XP.

[tiger1962]

This certainly isn't a "developers platform" like FSX, P3D or XP.

 

That's right, it's an Early Access release, not a finished product. This is an alien concept to flight simmers, who've never experienced this before. The FSW SDK is still in development, along with the rest of the sim, and won't be released until FSW is finally launched - exactly the same as FSX, P3D and XP.

[tr45]

FSX has had a great life, and still has plenty of life in it yet, but many of you are not addressing the original thread question. Like it or not, the world changes, and the world of computers changes pretty fast. Things are great for FSX users now, with computers that run it well and plenty of new add-ons. But this will change. Will you still be so enthralled with FSX when the publishers aren't publishing FSX add-ons any more because they've moved on to newer sims? Or when most of the world is running Windows 12 and FSX is no longer compatible? Will you be scavenging flea markets for old computers so you can continue to run FSX?

 

The older generation always finds the younger generation odd. But newer PC gamers find things like live-streaming, video, VR, etc. very enticing. Then there's the whole world of non-PC based games. There are Android and iOS simulators with huge followings. You can ignore these things, but the world around you will advance without you.

 

Most of us in our group (60+)(developer group) are finally getting what we've been waiting for, for over 10 years or more. An advanced flight sim with the likes of VR and other features. As a texture artist, dynamic reflections and HDR are "gold" in my eyes.

 

Going to be amazing what lies a few years down the road and I'm not going to miss any of it!!!

 

Oh and one thought here, Venema (Orbx) stated the 1/3 of their customer base uses FSX, guess what the other 2/3 is ?.

[HyFlyer]

Nope, users and developers did some mods of FLIGHT and it's completely capable of running the entire world. In fact people have converted the FSX world into FLIGHT.

[evm]

That's right, it's an Early Access release, not a finished product. This is an alien concept to flight simmers, who've never experienced this before. The FSW SDK is still in development, along with the rest of the sim, and won't be released until FSW is finally launched - exactly the same as FSX, P3D and XP.

 

Umm, you should be careful with that sarcasm, especially since you are wrong. DTG have said that they have no plans of making the SDK available to the general public.

Only licensed developers get the full SDK, and the only way to get it is to go through the "partners" team at DTG. All that end users will get is a Steam workshop where they can swap their self created content (= missions?). If you plan to contact said DTG department, be prepared for a long wait (yes, this licensing procedure already exists, which IMHO only makes sense if there actually is an SDK to license as well. FTX Global and Accufeel were integrated too, and that suggests the existence of at least a working BGL compiler and a SimConnect library).

 

Maybe they will decide to chance their policy regarding the SDK, but right now future doesn't look too bright.

[tiger1962]

Umm, you should be careful with that sarcasm, especially since you are wrong. DTG have said that they have no plans of making the SDK available to the general public.

 

Read section 11 of the EULA. Section 11.1 states:

 

"If you make content for use with the Software (which we will refer to as "user generated content" or "UGC"), you are solely responsible and liable for that user generated content. We don't accept any liability or responsibility for user generated content for the Software, nor do we provide any support for it. Users of the Software create, download, install and use UGC at their own risk."

 

Section 11.2 states:

 

"If you create UGC or make UGC available to other users (even if the UGC you make available was not created by you) then you agree (and shall be responsible in ensuring that any other creator or owner of that UGC agrees) that:

(a) to the extent that any part of the UGC which comprises or incorporates any of our Intellectual Property Rights (such as our routes, locomotives, rolling-stock, aircraft or other assets) remains our property;"

 

As far as I'm aware, DTG haven't said anything themselves about the SDK itself - there are a few posts from users on the DTG forums speculating about it, that's all.

Rest assured that there will be an SDK when the final version is released.

[evm]

Rest assured that there will be an SDK when the final version is released.

 

Again umm.

I actually am a payware developer, and I am currently going through the DTG licensing process. There was nothing in DTGs response indicating that there isn't an SDK available now. They requested detailed information about my products, and I can only assume that this information was for evaluating if my existing products will fit into the "world" or not (I am pretty sure that they don't). Unfortunately the reaction time of the 3rd party team is a bit long. The last time that I have heard from them was 5 weeks ago, and I still have neither access to the SDK, nor an NDA, a contract or anything. As far as I know they are being swamped by requests, and they are diligently evaluating every single one for feasibility.

 

Edit: to return the favor: rest assured that (at least where payware is concerned) things are not and will not be anything like FSX, P3D or XP, unless DTG changes their policy.

[tiger1962]

Again umm.

I actually am a payware developer, and I am currently going through the DTG licensing process. There was nothing in DTGs response indicating that there isn't an SDK available now. They requested detailed information about my products, and I can only assume that this information was for evaluating if my existing products will fit into the "world" or not (I am pretty sure that they don't). Unfortunately the reaction time of the 3rd party team is a bit long. The last time that I have heard from them was 5 weeks ago, and I still have neither access to the SDK, nor an NDA, a contract or anything. As far as I know they are being swamped by requests, and they are diligently evaluating every single one for feasibility.

 

I see now, evm. I thought you meant an SDK for users. I'm sure there is an SDK for developers, but clearly it isn't ready yet. Orbx's landclass and textures are neither 32-bit nor 64-bit and therefore don't need the SDK, so they are included already. The TrueSky weather hasn't been included yet, so that will need the SDK. How long it will take to finalise is pure guesswork right now, but it's good to know that there are developers like yourself who are so keen to get started on products for FSW.

[evm]

I see now, evm. I thought you meant an SDK for users. I'm sure there is an SDK for developers, but clearly it isn't ready yet. Orbx's landclass and textures are neither 32-bit nor 64-bit and therefore don't need the SDK, so they are included already. The TrueSky weather hasn't been included yet, so that will need the SDK. How long it will take to finalise is pure guesswork right now, but it's good to know that there are developers like yourself who are so keen to get started on products for FSW.

 

Yes, well. This is the part that worries me. With the other platforms you don't have to ask for permission, you just develop something, find it suitable and sell it. How will a young developer get into the DTG club if he only has an idea, but no product to show? (which he can't develop unless admitted to the SDK...) What criteria will DTG apply to determine if an addon or a developer is viable - or not?

 

Besides, if the SDK is not ready, why don't they just say so? Instead they direct developers to contact their 3rd party group, generating an enormous amount of work for that team with nothing to show for it?

 

I am pretty sure that the main part of the "SDK for end users" is already there: the "Pro Mission tool"... Another hint: if you take a look into the FSW main directory you will find a DLL called "sdkencryptedappticket64". Could this be meant for "individualizing" a specific SDK copy for the user = developer so that he cannot share it? Just a thought.

[tiger1962]

Yes, well. This is the part that worries me. With the other platforms you don't have to ask for permission, you just develop something, find it suitable and sell it. How will a young developer get into the DTG club if he only has an idea, but no product to show? (which he can't develop unless admitted to the SDK...) What criteria will DTG apply to determine if an addon or a developer is viable - or not?

 

Besides, if the SDK is not ready, why don't they just say so? Instead they direct developers to contat their 3rd party group, generating an enormous amount of work for that team with nothing to show for it?

 

I am pretty sure that the main part of the "SDK for end users" is already there: the "Pro Mission tool"... Another hint: if you take a look into the FSW main directory you will find a DLL called "sdkencryptedappticket64". Could this be meant for "individualizing" a specific SDK copy for the user = developer so that he cannot share it? Just a thought.

 

I doubt that DTG are assessing the developers themselves for viability. I think they are trying to reach a balance between customer's expectations and the game engine they are modifying before committing to an SDK for 3rd party developers. It would be a nightmare for all to have an SDK which changes each week with new updates.

I opened the sdkencryptedappticket64.dll with Notepad, and from the readable text segments it seems to be an error reporting tool, possibly automated, in case of a CTD or simconnect-related error - nothing to worry about really.