future of flight simulation

[ghembree]

To Nels Anderson I watched the video of recent future of flight simulator, pmgd, aerosoft, froogle, you guys are all good at this sort of thing. You did not touch on some things I think should be covered 1. where do I spend lots of my time on fsx not flying it is sorting the add on aircraft once I have them downloaded and getting them to work? I do not need lots of aircraft, just a first rate aircraft in most of the divisions, don't waste time on all the old stuff. Model A was sort of a neat automobile but who would want to drive one now. It is hard to see out over the dash board, second they will beat you brains out on the road.

 

I am currently trying to use the fmc unit just for sake of learning this method with freeware big mistake. Ifly 747-400 has working fmc according to description, it must be a military secret. Somewhat similar issues with b757 just off the charts. I think people such as you and the guys at panel need to look into things like this. If it is a freeware Ifly 747-400 with working fmc then it shoud work, all the bells and whistles should work and there should be a clear cut procedure listed in order and not a referral to 300 pages of documentation. Who wants to read 300 pages about anything. (this maybe a little exaggerated) but you get my point. My take on the fsx experience is a good one and also a very frustrating one mostly with the files part of it and working systems. The entire fsx or flight simulator system needs to be organized, simplified and streamlined if at all possible. I keep hearing about new flight simulator is this carrot and stick. Give us one like this

[ariking777]

About the FMC - if you're not willing to read 300 pages of documentation, don't bother to buy the PMDG 737 NGX - it's way more than 300 pages, and you NEED to read them.

 

About the Freeware iFly 747 - it's freeware, and it's quite old - it's not some kind of freeware version of the iFly 747 V2, and so as a freeware you can't expect it to be perfectly realistic or do exactly as the description says it can do.

Before I got the PMDG 747, I thought just like you that the freeware iFly 747 was awesome, after reading the description. I downloaded it, and no matter what I did, the screens were black. I knew it requires FSUIPC but as a matter of fact, I already had FSUIPC, so I don't know what the problem was. However, I do know something you should know too - as a freeware airplane, no matter what the description says, you download it, and if it doesn't work, you're probably gonna end up deleting it. It's not a payware, which if not working, you can contact the developers, who must help you.

Think about the default FSX planes - neither in the title, nor in the plane's in-game description, is there anything like "Please note that the default 737 simulation is extremely unrealistic, incomprehensive, partial, and selective, and without the core parts of operating a real airliner".

 

You have to accept it, since there's no other choice, and there are no Terms of Use that bound the developers to you, like in a payware add-on.

 

About a new flight simulator - the newest one was released a couple of months ago - Dovetail Games' Flight School. I haven't even seen a gameplay of it, but I hear tell it has only 2 default planes, and is kinda lame.

You can't just expect game companies to courteously think of the Simmers' best interest - they want to make money, and currently except for Dovetail Games, who apparently didn't really understand that their new Sim would be a total flop - there's no other company currently developing a whole-new flight simulator.

 

If you're really craving for a simulator more realistic than FSX, I'd recommend X-Plane, though it has a way tinier community, and consequently way less add-ons and stuff like that.

[napamule2]

There is a saying: 'Perhaps you are in the wrong line of work'. Maybe video games would be more your 'speed'. Up your alley, sort to speak. That sleek futuristic model you show will not fly itself, either. You have to learn how to fly it.

 

Some parts of the Sim are easy to 'catch on' to. Some are harder to learn. What people say you must do ('...download PMDG 737-NGX...bla, bla..') is wrong. Do your own thing. Learn how to design models you want? Maybe? GMax, or FSD3?

 

Myself I prefer the 'concept' types. Including vehicle (Porsche 911, 1934 Ford Coupe, Ferrari F1, '49 Caddy, UFO's, etc). New FltSim? Forget that. I have too much 'work' to do with what is available for FS9 and FSX Accel (still getting 2007 zips). Here are pics of some that are available of that type and that might peak your curiosity.

Chuck B

Napamule

[mallcott]

To Nels Anderson I watched the video of recent future of flight simulator, pmgd, aerosoft, froogle, you guys are all good at this sort of thing. You did not touch on some things I think should be covered 1. where do I spend lots of my time on fsx not flying it is sorting the add on aircraft once I have them downloaded and getting them to work? I do not need lots of aircraft, just a first rate aircraft in most of the divisions, don't waste time on all the old stuff. Model A was sort of a neat automobile but who would want to drive one now. It is hard to see out over the dash board, second they will beat you brains out on the road.

 

I am currently trying to use the fmc unit just for sake of learning this method with freeware big mistake. Ifly 747-400 has working fmc according to description, it must be a military secret. Somewhat similar issues with b757 just off the charts. I think people such as you and the guys at panel need to look into things like this. If it is a freeware Ifly 747-400 with working fmc then it shoud work, all the bells and whistles should work and there should be a clear cut procedure listed in order and not a referral to 300 pages of documentation. Who wants to read 300 pages about anything. (this maybe a little exaggerated) but you get my point. My take on the fsx experience is a good one and also a very frustrating one mostly with the files part of it and working systems. The entire fsx or flight simulator system needs to be organized, simplified and streamlined if at all possible. I keep hearing about new flight simulator is this carrot and stick. Give us one like this [ATTACH=CONFIG]192169[/ATTACH]

 

As others have stated, with complex aircraft come more complex customer qualification. Both in the field of flying and FMC's AND in the control of ones system, knowledge of the internal file structure and how best to optimise it for your own hardware, software and personal preferences.

 

BTW the aircraft you show has yet to be built, even in a scale model. How would you obtain correct or realistic flight data to be incorporated into the sim? You can create a `virtual` anything - some of the test systems I've used have used a picture of a house while we were flying & refining the systemology - but that won't make it simplified or streamlined - the aircraft is supposed to be as near `self flying` as it is possible to get...

 

...just think about how sophisticated the systems to make that happen need to be.

[evm]

Maybe give "Aerofly FS 2" a spin? Still in early access phase, but it might just be what you are looking for.

[kingnorris]

I fly the Quality Wings 757 all the time now. I've grown to love the simple yet effective FMC. It's enough for me. I'm not going to get a more advanced plane, as 1) I don't have time nor patience to read page after page of manuals to get it running and 2) my PC will probably struggle with heavily detailed aircraft like the PMDG.

 

I'm perfectly happy with FSX so I'm not looking to the future..

[mrzippy]

 

I'm perfectly happy with FSX so I'm not looking to the future..

 

Aw, just when I was waiting for Flying Saucers 2017 to come out so we can explore the universe. There goes my trip to Alpha Centauri!:(

[ghembree]

Your make a good point but you missed mine, what would you choose tail drag-er that you have to peer out of side window to see where you are taxing or modern aircraft with great visibility front and side with automatic transmission power steering and brakes. (you know what I mean). no contest. Scenery should be same for everyone. Does airport look different if you got economy ticket? I have no interest in video games. I do fsx because I like it. It is as close to flying as I can get without renting a plane and doing it my self. Which is very expensive and dangerous with so many people in the air and in a small plane it is noisy and exhausting and bounce you around like a rubber ball. I prefer to fly out of kitchen these days. If you are talented enough to design and build aircraft you should be talented enough to include video tutorial of simple method of using the instrumentation. 300 pages no way. I love the flight simulator. I do not want to go to library to learn how it operates. Neither do I think I should learn to take it apart put it back together in or to take off and do ils landing?

[mrzippy]

Your make a good point but you missed mine, what would you choose tail drag-er that you have to peer out of side window to see where you are taxing or modern aircraft with great visibility front and side with automatic transmission power steering and brakes. (you know what I mean). no contest. Scenery should be same for everyone. Does airport look different if you got economy ticket? I have no interest in video games. I do fsx because I like it. It is as close to flying as I can get without renting a plane and doing it my self. Which is very expensive and dangerous with so many people in the air and in a small plane it is noisy and exhausting and bounce you around like a rubber ball. I prefer to fly out of kitchen these days. If you are talented enough to design and build aircraft you should be talented enough to include video tutorial of simple method of using the instrumentation. 300 pages no way. I love the flight simulator. I do not want to go to library to learn how it operates. Neither do I think I should learn to take it apart put it back together in or to take off and do ils landing?

 

Good points......BUT keep in mind that FSX, FS2004, X-Plane and P3D (P3D Not a simulation for flight sim enthusiasts) are as close to using a real flight simulator as possible. There is a learning curve that should be followed. Have you flown any of the Tutorial Missions or done any of the lessons inside the Sim? Those are a good start.

 

Sorry about all of the confusion about the freeware FMCs that you've tried. Not much in the way of instructions for those other than what YouTube videos that are out there.

[kingnorris]

Your make a good point but you missed mine, what would you choose tail drag-er that you have to peer out of side window to see where you are taxing or modern aircraft with great visibility front and side with automatic transmission power steering and brakes. (you know what I mean). no contest. Scenery should be same for everyone. Does airport look different if you got economy ticket? I have no interest in video games. I do fsx because I like it. It is as close to flying as I can get without renting a plane and doing it my self. Which is very expensive and dangerous with so many people in the air and in a small plane it is noisy and exhausting and bounce you around like a rubber ball. I prefer to fly out of kitchen these days. If you are talented enough to design and build aircraft you should be talented enough to include video tutorial of simple method of using the instrumentation. 300 pages no way. I love the flight simulator. I do not want to go to library to learn how it operates. Neither do I think I should learn to take it apart put it back together in or to take off and do ils landing?

 

Again, you lost me. You don't want to read manuals to learn an aircraft, yet you don't want something simple, like say the Freemium 757?

 

YouTube is your friend. But you'll still have to spend a considerable amount of time watching videos as opposed to reading manuals to understand the more complex aircraft.

 

As for your statement about developers making vids----after they do all that work to get it right, I wouldn't want to spend hours editing videos for a few virtual pilots that don't want to read manuals.

[ghembree]

Your make a good point but you missed mine, what would you choose tail drag-er that you have to peer out of side window to see where you are taxing or modern aircraft with great visibility front and side with automatic transmission power steering and brakes. (you know what I mean). no contest. Scenery should be same for everyone. Does airport look different if you got economy ticket? I have no interest in video games. I do fsx because I like it. It is as close to flying as I can get without renting a plane and doing it my self. Which is very expensive and dangerous with so many people in the air and in a small plane it is noisy and exhausting and bounce you around like a rubber ball. I prefer to fly out of kitchen these days. If you are talented enough to design and build aircraft you should be talented enough to include video tutorial of simple method of using the instrumentation. 300 pages no way. I love the flight simulator. I do not want to go to library to learn how it operates. Neither do I think I should learn to take it apart put it back together in order to take off and do ils landing?

I am extremely frustrated in process it takes to download install and find out you need several more combinations to get it going right. This is what I mean by organizing, simplifying, and streamlining. Just like the pre flight check list before take off. It is pretty much standard. There needs to be a standard check list included all the way through install to take off and doing ils landing that's what it's all about isn't it?

[mrzippy]

Your points make very little sense! I fly tail-draggers all of the time. Press the W key in the 2D cockpit mode to give you a clear view while taxiing. Airport scenery will be what you make of it. Some guys fly FSX "right out of the box" with very little addon stuff, or so says Scatterbrainedkid. There are lots of developers that created beautiful aircraft with complete checklists verbally spoken to you so you can push the corrects buttons and switches. The new C-47 V.3 is exactly that! Yeah, I know....a tail-dragger. Ya gotta start thinking that FSX is like owning a real aircraft but you get to do all that work while sitting at the kitchen table with a can of Blatz in your mitt. (Thank you Shep!)

[ghembree]

What is it with the manuals? Did you ever hear the statement one picture is worth a thousand words. I just so happens I learn much better with visual instruction and visual example that's it. If you want to bury yourself in manuals fine I do not. If I see 1-2-3 procedure for all the buttons the order and so on that works for me.

 

The first new car I bought was 1963 Chevy Impala, 3 speed on column, 327cu. 4barl carb no pwr steering, no pwr brakes Is was very quick off line. I beat SS with 4 speed on floor. It took year or so to decide I wanted automatic with pwr brakes, and steering. It gives you better control and less work wasted.

[kingnorris]

I've already stated that I stay away from complex aircraft because I don't have time to read manuals.

[ghembree]

Did you see the movie about Lindbergh the first guy to fly over ocean to France. He had to look out side to see where he was going. That is tough sledding. You get it. If you like a tail drag-er that is fine. The point is there much easier ways to do it. And how many tail drag ers do they build these days? I can fly out of the airport if I so choose. I choose to fly out of kitchen its much safer, much cheaper and not near as dangerous and yes flying if very dangerous but I suppose not for you.

[ghembree]

Did you see the movie about Lindbergh the first guy to fly over ocean to France. He had to look out side to see where he was going. That is tough sledding. You get it. If you like a tail drag-er that is fine. The point is there much easier ways to do it. And how many tail drag ers do they build these days? I can fly out of the airport if I so choose. I choose to fly out of kitchen its much safer, much cheaper and not near as dangerous and yes flying if very dangerous but I suppose not for you.

[mabe5454]

$9972.38 an hour in today's money for 33.5 hours of work. Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice!

 

But of course, heck not me!

 

Watch:

 

 

He barely cleared those lines.

 

Cheers,

[ghembree]

An additional comment to ariking 777 fsx realism if fine with me I just keep hearing about new fsx. If so go forward not backward modeling the old stuff. I do not fly hardly any default aircraft mostly add on freeware and some are pretty good. According to online chatter nowhere near as good as pmdg payware. I do not know. Wanted to learn fmc procedure just to know it. No intentions of becoming pilot at united. I watched video on future of home flight simulation, dovetail games, and froogle about flight sim community. It looks like x-plane has edge as of now. It sounds like the focus is on sales of upgraded old stuff. I flew the default dc-3 it flys pretty good but is dreary and you cannot see out before getting up some speed I sort of like to see where I am going. Personally I think all aircraft should be equipped with a/p, gps, radio stack, To me this is much like pwr steering, pwr brakes, and auto transmission on auto. You have much better control and more freedom with your hands thus you are safer better driver.

[kingnorris]

I'm done responding to you. It's been said many times. If you want to learn an advanced FMC, go on YouTube.

 

Also, as said, there are many quality planes out there both freeware and payware. Jets and some small props all have autopilot and what not.

 

Get busy and do google searches. Obviously developers won't heed your requests so you'll have to do some homework.

 

Good luck.

[Egsjr1956]

Learning how to program a Flight Management Computer, once you learn how is the easy part and the boring part. The fun part is knowing what information is needed to insert into the Flight Management Computer. If you can't figure out how to use a Flight Management Computer how are you ever going to figure out how to fly a plane from point A to B.

[pvarn]

Simple planes are not for everyone. Complex planes are not for everyone.

This is why FSX and the community gives us choices.

 

Alpha Centauri? Just a short hop in Elite Dangerous.

-Pv-

[ScatterbrainKid]

The most complex flight sim plane I ever had was a freeware F-16 Fighting Falcon about 20 years ago for my old 486 PC, it'd been created by an ultra-hardcore-realism F-16 fan group but didn't have a proper readme.

So I was sitting on the runway pressing every button in sight trying to start the engine without success, and asked in their forum how to start up. No reply.

I'm still sitting there..

[ghembree]

How To...Program The FMC

 

By Hans Fog (20 June 2006)

 

A Simple Introduction To The Art Of Flying With FMC - Beginners Only.

I have bought add-on aircraft first from Level-D, later on from Wilco and lastly from PMDG hoping to find an easy to understand manual or tutorial and have spent endless hours trying to master flights planned with the FMC.

 

It has almost made me consider to give up flight simming for ever - but gradually I was able to pick enough bits from each of them so that I finally one day succeeded to plan and execute a flight from A to B. You are talking about manuals of several hundred pages and not always in agreement with each other.

 

I came to think that there might be a few others out there gnashing their teeth in frustration over how difficult it is. So I have put my hard won experience into writing, hoping that it might help a fellow beginner. This should re-establish your self-confidence enough to make you go on experimenting - having seen that it can be done.

 

This will not be a guide to flying the Boeing 737 - only to flying with FMC. But there is a lot more to flying by FMC than I have included. You will only find the most basic functions here.

 

As English is not my first language you might find some incorrect phrases and wrong spelling - but I assume you will understand most of it anyway.

 

The add-on aircraft I have found the easiest to handle is the PMDG's B737 NG (review available here) - so that's the one I will use. But I have made parallel successful flights with one of the others too. I will only refer to this aircraft - so in case you fly another - please use alternative adequate inputs. The PMDG B737 FMC is very similar to FMC's in the other

aircraft.

 

Taking pot shots is not the answer people are looking for good clean answers. This guy echos my sentiments exactly 10 yrs ago. At this time I do not have an operational fmc and tried to use freeware ifly 747-400 advertised to have working fmc for a learning opportunity. I followed each and every line according to instructions but some instructions don't go as they say. So this is not right, so I indicated experts such as you might volunteer to see if it was possible to adjust the freeware ifly 747-400 to operate as advertised instead of attacking the messenger. I am part of the flying community that Froogle talks about you are overlooking what we are asking for. One person much like you wants to oppose the messenger (me) and make incorrect judgments about the issue at hand. This person suggest a manual with 300 pages is necessary. The person writing above article has it down to (4 pages) which could wind up about 3 pages. This is what I am talking about. I do this for enjoyment not for torture. I want to make it a good experience. People in the know maybe you or other in top management or whoever does this stuff. I have done my share of searching and sorting which I usually discover much of it is wasted time and could have been much easier. When a person is trying to learn fmc for first time you or someone with experience like you sees the inquiry, provides path for 3-4 pages of clean instructions of setting up and executing the procedure. nothing about cold start, or how to fly. You will make someone's day. That is much better than arrows at the messenger.

[ghembree]

One more thing the fmc procedure in my thinking is like the combination to a lock, if you given the right combination to lock it is easy to open wrong combination in can be a problem?

[ghembree]

Why do some people make a badge of courage out doing something the hard way. Cave men did stuff the hard way? So far I have been able to fly all planes from the hang glider to the a380 I spent lots of time with the hang glider I would not go near a big jet I was sure Ii would knock me down and step on me and after awhile I tried one first few times I did not do that well it was all manual from take off to landing I do not know how to operate the autopilot. finally sorted that out then it became enjoyable before just a lot of work. As of today the f-16 viper is most fun to fly, next is a380, and 777. I do all home repairs myself, electrical, plumbing, carpentry, most auto stuff up to a point. Now days you need a little more equipment (diagnostic center) and I am currently repairing wooden fence and that is a lot of work. So lighten up . Just wanted to learn fmc to know how to use it. gps works pretty good.