Aircraft.cfg Eyepoint Question

[csmj]

Does anyone know what these three numbers mean?

 

[Views]

eyepoint=5.774,-1.131, -0.229

 

I have a plane in which I need to lower the eyepoint (Shift+Backspace). I had assumed that the new position would be stored here, but it didn't change. So now I'm wondering if I can change one of these numbers and make the change permanent. Anyone have experience with this?

 

Thanks very much,

Clayton

[napamule2]

You like to make screen shots so why not post a view screenie. If we don't know what model you are talking about we also can't try changes that would work for THAT model.

 

The numbers only apply to the 3D, or VC view, and stand for Longitude (5.774), Lateral (-1.131) with minus being LEFT of center and Vertical (-0.229) with minus being BELOW center. To change the eyepoint for the 2D panel, you have to make changes or adjustments in the PANEL.cfg. Waiting for screenshot(s).

Chuck B

[csmj]

You like to make screen shots so why not post a view screenie. If we don't know what model you are talking about we also can't try changes that would work for THAT model.

 

The numbers only apply to the 3D, or VC view, and stand for Longitude (5.774), Lateral (-1.131) with minus being LEFT of center and Vertical (-0.229) with minus being BELOW center. To change the eyepoint for the 2D panel, you have to make changes or adjustments in the PANEL.cfg. Waiting for screenshot(s).

Chuck B

 

Ok here it is. I'm a keyboard pilot and have come to rely on the Small-V Axis Indicator ((Views/Options menu item). In most aircraft the V indicates where the plane is headed and it's very helpful on landing approaches, proper flare, etc. This first shot is in the Cessna Grand Caravan ready for takeoff. The V is at the end of the runway (as it is in most planes).

 

 

The plane in question is the Aero Commander 680. Here's the V on that

 

 

I have to press Shift+Backspace four times to place the V properly. I'm hoping to make it permanent.

 

The plane comes with 3 liveries. The one I like best has no panel.cfg, the other two have them and I can experiment with them if there's a way.

 

Update: Just looked in the Aircraft.cfg and see that the livery I like is using the same panel as the other livery. So if panel.cfg can be tweaked for this it will work on this livery.

 

Thanks very much for your help,

Clayton

[napamule2]

You can use your hat switch to change the ANGLE without moving the eye point. Or you can use 'Shift+Enter' and 'Shift+Backspace' to set the 'V' on the horizon.

 

There seems to be some zoom in pics. Not good. Press 'Backspace' to set zoom to 1x ('default'). Zoom in 2D is bad. So is zoom in Spot view. Get list of Key Commands. File is 'fs04key.zip', 1.9 mb, by Tony Smith. Very handy to have for flying with keyboard.

Chuck B

[csmj]

Thank you Chuck,

 

>>You can use your hat switch to change the ANGLE without moving the eye point.

>>Or you can use 'Shift+Enter' and 'Shift+Backspace' to set the 'V' on the horizon.

 

I'm not sure what the "hat switch" is, nor do I know what you mean by "ANGLE", but I'm very well aquainted with 'Shift+Enter' and 'Shift+Backspace', as I explained in my original post. The whole point of this thread is I'm trying to find a way to permanently change the V position on the AC680 to the correct position so I won't have to use those keystrokes. I was hoping you would tell me there is a panel.cfg tweak that will do that. Apparently not.

 

>>There seems to be some zoom in pics. Not good. Press 'Backspace' to set zoom to 1x ('default'). Zoom in 2D is bad. So is zoom in Spot view. Get list of Key Commands. File is 'fs04key.zip', 1.9 mb, by Tony Smith. Very handy to have for flying with keyboard.

 

I am also well aquainted with the zoom commands and I assure you there was no zoom in effect when those screen shots were made. They may appear slightly that way because I used Photoshop to trim off the menu and taskbar parts of the original images while maintaining the original monitor aspect ratio (something I do for all my screen shots), so it was cropped a bit. As for keyboard commands I have a 6-page printout of all the keyboard commands, which I refer to regularly. It's printed from an .rtf file I made myself from the FS9 Help and then reorganized to suit my own preferences (in order of most common use) with bold section headers to make it quick and easy to find things. It gets well used and has lots of penciled notes and various marks :) Most of the commonly used things are well memorized.

 

Well, if there is no way to permanently move the V axis indicator for this plane then I guess there's no reason to continue this thread. But I still wonder why it's low on certain freeware planes (it's happened before). Most of the planes I use regularly have it in the correct position. My thinking was that if it's in the wrong place there must be a reason, and maybe a cfg tweak somewhere could correct it. Oh well, I suppose it will have to remain a mystery (there are lots of mysteries with FS :) ).

 

Thanks for your efforts,

Clayton

[PhantomTweak]

The 2D cockpit, as Chuck mentioned, is in the panel.cfg file.

 

REMEBER TO ALWAYS BACK UP ANY FILE BEFORE YOU EDIT IT!!!

 

There is a section, usually at the top, but not always, and usually under the [Window Titles] header, but not always.

It looks something like this:

 

[VIEWS]

VIEW_FORWARD_ZOOM=0.800

VIEW_FORWARD_DIR=2.500, 0.000, 0.000

 

There may well be other lines in that section, but they aren't important to this discussion.

I believe you said you know what ZOOM is all about, so I won't go into that here.

 

Now, the Forward_Dir line is what you want. It has three numbers, comma delineated. I believe Chuck covered what each number means. Only in this case they are Vertical, Lateral, and Longitudinal, just like the [Views] section of the aircraft.cfg file, but backwards.. You want you viewpoint, in the 2D cockpit, to go up or down, permanently, change the first number. You want it to slide left or right, the second. I bet you can gues what the third one does. Not LOOK up or down, like tipping your head, but MOVE like if the plane's seat has a up/down adjustment. Which, by the way, is what he meant by ANGLE. Think of that as holding your body still in one spot, but moving your head up/down/left/right. Look down at your shoes, for example.

The "HAT" switch Chuck referred to is the switch on the joystick, top center of the handgrip, that looks somewhat like the traditional Chinese Coolie hat, or Viet Namese peasant's hat, made famous in Apocalypse Now, when the young woman threw her hat into a grounded chopper, with a grenade in it. Round, with a peak in the middle, made of straw. You move the switch with your thumb, usually, to adjust the ANGLE in the 3D cockpit, like moving you head around to look around you, but making sure your body stays still. Fighter pilots spend a lot of their time looking back over one shoulder or the other, and up and down, keeping "padlocked" on their opponent as they maneuver to get a decent shot. But their body stays fairly still, being strapped in. Yes, they can move their seat up/down, but once set up before take-off, they normally don't mess with it.

 

Does all that answer your questions?

Pat☺

[StringBean]

One small correction...

 

VIEW_FORWARD_DIR=2.500, 0.000, 0.000

 

Those values are not positional, they are for pitch, bank and heading.

 

Been a while since I messed with it, I believe that 2.500 would be 2.5 degrees pitch up.

 

Anyway, play with that value to get what you want.

 

peace,

the Bean

[csmj]

Pat and Bean,

 

THANK YOU!!!!! That is exactly what I was hoping for. The V is now vertically centered on the horizon and I just made a good approach and landing with it. I learned some things from this...

 

VIEW_FORWARD_DIR=2.500, 0.000, 0.000

 

When I looked at the AC860 file that first number was 5.0. I wasn't sure what to change it to so I decided to look at the Grand Caravan file and see what it used. Guess what? It's panel.cfg did not have that line. It didn't even have a [VIEWS] section. I checked a number of default planes and none of them had it. Most of the add-on planes had it and the four I checked had values of 1.0, 2.0, 6.0 and 9.0 (a few of the add-on planes referenced default plane panels).

 

Still faced with what number to use, it occurred to me that none of the other planes used decimal numbers like your example above, and perhaps a change of 1.0 was equal to a Shift+Backspace keystroke. Since it took 4 keystrokes to position it correctly in the AC860 I changed the number from 5.0 to 1.0 and it was perfect. Problem solved.

 

Needless to say, I'm going to carefully check every other plane to see if the V needs moving (I can think of two that definitely need it). The tail draggers will be a challenge but perhaps I can put them in slew mode and tilt them level...we shall see.

 

I also think I know why the higher numbers were used. In the AC860 when the full 2D panel is shown you can't see much of the runway. Moving the eyepoint up 4 notches gives a much better view out the window (I'm curious to see what the view is like on the plane that has 9.0 for that number). That doesn't bother me because I always fly with just the single row of important instruments showing and the V is critical on approaches and landings. The only time I show the full panel is when I want to check a trim setting or do something with the radios or navigation instruments, which is almost always before takeoff or during the flight when a good view out the window isn't critical. I can always raise the viewpoint if I want to fly with the full panel (and a tap on the spacebar will restore it), but most of the time I don't so this approach is preferred.

 

Well, I have certainly learned a lot from this. A thousand thanks!

 

Clayton

[napamule2]

Welcome to the 'real' world of 'Simming'. They don't tell you everything. You have to dig and learn on your own. Sounds like you have a good mind set and do things 'scientifically' as opposed to banging on the keyboard or throwing a boot at your PC (I know this happens-you know who you are...). We all learn something new everyday, so be prepared to spend a lot of time learning.

 

If you hit 'Y' for slew your taildragger will be level IF in the (contact_points) section the 'static_pitch=0.000'. If it is '=8.000' it will be tipped nose up. Temp change to '=0.000' will work for you-won't hurt anything. When you press 'Y' again, be prepared to hit 'F1' (throttle 'Cut') or it will zoom off into the sky at 1000 kts. I usually hit 'F1' before I come out of slew. That places the ac on the ground but still must hit 'F1' when you come out of slew. These 'things' could be considered 'playtime gadgets' or 'widgets' but we still marvel at how these things work and I can spend hours playing with them ('idiots delight' - haha).

Chuck B

[PhantomTweak]

For a great explanation of what number does what in the panel.cfg file, take a look AT THIS PAGE.

If you want, I can post the same sort of page for aircraft.cfg files too.

Pat☺

[napamule2]

It occured to me that since you are flying using keyboad keys, that you don't really need the 'V' or any other guide for taking off. You need something to go by when you are doing a landing. Right? Right. Well in menu item 'Aircraft' there is an option to show the glide slope into a runway that has Nav 1 set to the ILS freq for that runway. If you make a landing and want to do instant replay you can 'Un Check' that option (at any time) and you won't see the red squares in replay (wink wink). See pics. Good luck.

Chuck B

[HardCub]

Not to throw this topic off-the-path, but is there a similar "fix" for manipulating the outside eye-point view also? I have a few aircraft that seem really 'far away' when viewed outside, and when I zoom up a little closer I tend to lose view of the surrounding world by a margin that shrinks with each zoom factor. Sorry for asking if this was inappropriate on this post thread. Just something I have been fighting for a awhile myself.

Example would be the Eaglesoft SR22 Cirrus models and the Carenado Cessna 152.

[tiger1962]

In Lee Swordy's AFCAD 2.21, there is an Aircraft Editor function. This will show all the editable aircraft (including AI) in your FS2004 installation. Scroll down to the one you want to edit, and change its Aircraft Radius to a lower number. This will move the spot view camera closer to that plane in sim - but don't go mad because ATC will also direct it to smaller parking ramps/gates from now on too.

[StringBean]

... is there a similar "fix" for manipulating the outside eye-point view also? I have a few aircraft that seem really 'far away' when viewed outside...

Glenn,

 

The Spot View camera location is initially determined by the aircraft radius, the same one that is used to determine parking spots.

 

You can go into the view options menu and change the distance.

 

For a more "permanent" fix, one not needing to be changed every time you load the plane, you can change the aircraft radius.

 

This can be done with Afcad2.21 or the AI Aircraft Editor- http://www.owlsnest.eu/phpatm/index.php?PHPSESSID=ok0mbsme1badu1ejrfpcg6p0t1&direction=0&order=nom&directory=Tools

 

peace,

the Bean

[PastPrime]

napamule2

 

After seeing your mini_panel I decided I want one of those. Looked around in various places and couldn't find one like it for FS9. I'd appreciate it if you would tell me where I might get it. Thanks.

Chuck R

[csmj]

For a great explanation of what number does what in the panel.cfg file, take a look AT THIS PAGE.

If you want, I can post the same sort of page for aircraft.cfg files too.

Pat☺

 

Thank you Pat, this is a great resource. And yes please do post the aircraft.cfg page.

 

Clayton

[csmj]

It occured to me that since you are flying using keyboad keys, that you don't really need the 'V' or any other guide for taking off. You need something to go by when you are doing a landing. Right? Right. Well in menu item 'Aircraft' there is an option to show the glide slope into a runway that has Nav 1 set to the ILS freq for that runway. If you make a landing and want to do instant replay you can 'Un Check' that option (at any time) and you won't see the red squares in replay (wink wink). See pics. Good luck.

Chuck B

 

Hi Chuck,

 

Yes I frequently use the ILS glide slope squares and then turn it off if I want to use instant replay for screen shots. Even with that, though, the axis indicator V is very handy for that final stretch after passing through the last square and then the flare. I probably should wean myself away from it, but I've been using FS since version 4 in 1992 or so, way back in the DOS days, and I've just gotten so used to it that it's hard to function without it (I guess that makes me an old fogey :) ). And when you depend on it as I do, having it in the wrong place because of an eyepoint change makes it very difficult to use.

 

I've always been a very casual FS user, doing it only when in the mood and enough time, sometimes being away from it for months. But now that I'm retired I've shaken off the mothballs and am spending lots more time with it, and having a ball and learning huge amounts. These forums are invaluable.

 

Thanks for your help,

Clayton

[csmj]

If you hit 'Y' for slew your taildragger will be level IF in the (contact_points) section the 'static_pitch=0.000'. If it is '=8.000' it will be tipped nose up. Temp change to '=0.000' will work for you-won't hurt anything. When you press 'Y' again, be prepared to hit 'F1' (throttle 'Cut') or it will zoom off into the sky at 1000 kts. I usually hit 'F1' before I come out of slew. That places the ac on the ground but still must hit 'F1' when you come out of slew.

Chuck B

 

Thank you, this is one of those good tips that I'll save in my notes.

 

Clayton

[PhantomTweak]

Hi Clayton.

Glad I could help a little. The page I use for aircraft.cfg files is THIS ONE.

 

Bear in mind these are the ESP SDK pages. NOT identical to the MSFS SDKs, but I've found that a lot, if not most, of the info is identical. I like it because it's online and needs no installation, special folders, HD space, etc etc.

If you poke around up at the top of the page, there is a whole menu tree, with just about everything on it someplace for the ESP sims.

Pat☺

[napamule2]

As has been said, when in Spot view (outside) you go to 'Options/View Options' and a window opens where you set the Zoom to 1X, then distance to between 35 ft and 111 ft (depending on size of AC) and then set the height to between 4 ft and 11 ft. You can then SAVE A FLIGHT and the flight will retain that 'view' for the next time you want to load that AC. No need to do it everytime. Just add 'C152_VIEW TOO FAR' as name for saved flight to give you a hint as to WHY you saved that flight. (Use my head-hehe).

Chuck B

[csmj]

Glad I could help a little. The page I use for aircraft.cfg files is THIS ONE.

 

Terrific, thank you.

 

Bear in mind these are the ESP SDK pages. NOT identical to the MSFS SDKs, but I've found that a lot, if not most, of the info is identical. I like it because it's online and needs no installation, special folders, HD space, etc etc.

If you poke around up at the top of the page, there is a whole menu tree, with just about everything on it someplace for the ESP sims.

 

Pardon my ignorance, but what does ESP mean? I found no explanation of it on that page.

 

Thanks for your help,

Clayton

[StringBean]

...what does ESP mean?

 

ESP is the core engine of FSX.

 

For most intents and purposes the ESP SDK is the same as the FSX SDK.

 

Of course the online ESP SDK lacks the tools included in the FSX SDK.

 

peace,

the Bean

[csmj]

Got it, thanks.

 

Clayton