Accurate Simulator for Real Life Practice

Hello,

 

I am a student planning to take a Private Pilot License and is looking for a simulator. I been googling and watching YouTube of mainly 3 software but cannot come to a conclusion and got more confused

 

1) MSFS 2020, 2) XPlane11, 3) P3D

 

I need a software that is most accurate in terms of flight physics as I want to practice maneuvers outside a normal flight envelope. Such as accident barrel rolls and vertical flights...etc.

 

I have a high end computer and willing to pay for pay ware planes. Plane type can range from GA to Airlines.

 

The most important solo goal is the accuracy of the flight modelling and weather dynamics.

Hello,

 

I am a student planning to take a Private Pilot License and is looking for a simulator. I been googling and watching YouTube of mainly 3 software but cannot come to a conclusion and got more confused

 

1) MSFS 2020, 2) XPlane11, 3) P3D

 

I need a software that is most accurate in terms of flight physics as I want to practice maneuvers outside a normal flight envelope. Such as accident barrel rolls and vertical flights...etc.

 

I have a high end computer and willing to pay for pay ware planes. Plane type can range from GA to Airlines.

 

The most important solo goal is the accuracy of the flight modelling and weather dynamics.

 

Avoid MSFS. Like the plague. My recommendation is P3d. You won't have to deal with 130 gig of updates every month. And it handles `off book` flight manoeuvres, whereas MSFS can't be called a flight simulator yet. And I'm a real pilot and my advice is don't rely on any sim.

Take real lessons from a real pilot. There is no substitute for doing it properly.

Well, unfortunately, you won't find exactly what you want on any PC/Mac/etc. Any of the three you listed (or Flightgear, for that matter) won't have the "flight physics" that you want, partly because of the inexpensive software not being able to pay for the programming required, partly because the accurate feel isn't there in any of the existing available controls, and also the lack of motion and other things that would take something on the lines of the airline's multi-million dollar sims.

 

What you can find, from any of those, is generic flight physics that, to some degree, give a general idea of how aircraft behave and respond to controls, except in slow flight and stalls, where it's rare that a flight model even comes close.

 

Also, any of the three can be excellent procedures trainers, letting you work on navigation, instrument flying, etc. and learn a lot, including traffic patterns.

 

However both the flight models and the physical limitations of the medium (where and how you look around, evaluating certain feel/appearance factors) limit what you can do in the way of ground reference maneuvers such as turns about a point. In addition, you cannot learn to feel how much rudder you need to apply in various situations by feel (seat-of-the-pants flying) without looking at the instrument panel (watch the ball), or to understand how the control feel varies with airspeed*, with different types of aircraft and with other factors.

 

Also, the PC sims tend to make you focus on the instrument panel more than you should (except in specific instrument flying), when you really want to keep your eyes outside most of the time, with just occasional quick glances at the panel.

 

Also, for the most part a Cessna 172, a Bonanza, a J-3 Cub and an Aztec will mostly feel the same in the controls while in the sim, though responsiveness may vary a bit, even though they feel a LOT different in the real aircraft.

 

So whichever one you choose, will have mostly the same limitations, due to the medium involved but can, properly used, be quite helpful, especially if you discuss its use with your instructor.

 

And finally, I suggest that after each flight with your instructor that you find some time on that day (the sooner the better) to sit in your easy chair, close your eyes, get your hands and feet mentally on the controls, and relive the flight, remembering how it felt, how the aircraft responded to various control pressures, etc., perhaps more than just once or twice, and on subsequent days until you fly again, also. This worked well for me when I learned to fly, and my students reported that it helped them too. After all, a lot of flying is "muscle memory" which is largely in the mind.

 

So careful use of both a "sim" and of mental review can help a lot.

 

======================================================

* One example is a Stearman. At low speeds it takes a lot of control movement to make the aircraft respond the way you want, but the control pressures are pretty light. At higher speeds it takes less control movement, but the control pressures needed are a bit heavier and the balance between the controls changes. Finally, at higher speeds, especially above its cruise speed, such as when in a dive to get enough speed to do a loop, the ailerons REALLY stiffen up, though the other two don't stiffen nearly as much.

 

Although this is somewhat true of most (all?) aircraft, the stiffening of the ailerons on the Stearman is considerably more than on, say, a Citabria in the same maneuver.

It probably does not matter too much which one you go for because they are all good. But why not go with the “new boy on the block”, ie MSFS, as it uses the latest technology, surpasses the others already in some areas, particularly graphics/“eye candy”, and in areas where it currently may be behind the others it will surpass them soon. Enormous effort going into MSFS to fix some current issues and make it the best. I am a real-life recreational pilot and have both XP and MSFS, and am using MSFS the most. But you will get many different opinions, and my first sentance is probably the best advice. Cheers.

 

Edit: home sims are only of limited help for real life flying, so don’t expect too much!

Edited January 28, 2022 by FrankPilot

You can absolutely learn both the nomenclature, instrumentation, and behavior, (to some degree), of aircraft in most PC simulators, but it can really never take the place of of the real thing, with a qualified flight instructor...

I was told some years back real pilots like X-plane, being the most realistic flight physics over the other simulators available at the time, time being around ten years ago, but that's a long time ago in the world of software..... I would say MSFS2020 is good enough to learn the basics landings takeoffs patterns weather flight planning, which will put you ahead of the pack when you goto flight school.. The only negative in that is picking up bad habits which could be hard to shake off in flight school .... Most MSFS2020 owners treat the sim purely as game, but it goes far deeper than that.... A real pilot will see the potential in MSFS2020 along with its limitations more so than the average user who treats it as a game...... Edited January 28, 2022 by daspinall

I was told some years back real pilots like X-plane, being the most realistic flight physics over the other simulators available at the time,

Likely SOME real pilots liked it, but not ALL -- me, for one -- in spite of all of Austin's hype. The flight models in X-P were DIFFERENT, but not any more realistic, and other factors are -- to me -- more important than the (relatively) minor differences in flight models.

 

I would say MSFS2020 is good enough to learn the basics landings takeoffs patterns

I would disagree. It may be good enough to aid the learning, but it is, as was said by others above, NOT good enough for flying real airplanes. That MUST be learned from a real instructor in a real aircraft.

 

Any of the above sims can be used for learning most anything FOR THE SIM, but not for the actual flying for real. They can be very good aids, in conjunction with and under the supervision of a CFI, for learning the real thing, but cannot replace the real thing.

Avoid MSFS. Like the plague. My recommendation is P3d. You won't have to deal with 130 gig of updates every month. And it handles `off book` flight manoeuvres, whereas MSFS can't be called a flight simulator yet.

 

I agree with this. I was also a real life pilot (Cessna 172 and Tiger Moth). I used FSX to practice circuits and cross country flights (P3D wasn't available back then) and I could emulate closely what my upcoming flight in real life would be like, eg speeds, times, altitudes, checks, turning points, radio frequency changes and calls. So I was well prepared and there were seldom any nasty surprises.

 

FSX/P3D simply has the best combination of flight dynamics, ground handling, ATC, etc. Ground handling and ATC in X-Plane is a joke, especially for tail-draggers and MSFS simply has too many issues at the moment, plus the camera system is atrocious and frustrating. While I like the nice scenery in MSFS, whenever I want to do a few circuits or feel what an aircraft really flies like, I go to P3D.

Edited January 29, 2022 by rooitou

Avoid MSFS. Like the plague. My recommendation is P3d. You won't have to deal with 130 gig of updates every month. And it handles `off book` flight manoeuvres, whereas MSFS can't be called a flight simulator yet. And I'm a real pilot and my advice is don't rely on any sim.

Take real lessons from a real pilot. There is no substitute for doing it properly.

 

I don't have MSFS yet, but AFAIK updates are only a few GB's not over 100GB's.

Likely SOME real pilots liked it, but not ALL -- me, for one -- in spite of all of Austin's hype. The flight models in X-P were DIFFERENT, but not any more realistic, and other factors are -- to me -- more important than the (relatively) minor differences in flight models.

 

 

I would disagree. It may be good enough to aid the learning, but it is, as was said by others above, NOT good enough for flying real airplanes. That MUST be learned from a real instructor in a real aircraft.

 

Any of the above sims can be used for learning most anything FOR THE SIM, but not for the actual flying for real. They can be very good aids, in conjunction with and under the supervision of a CFI, for learning the real thing, but cannot replace the real thing.

 

sure you will never get your wings in a none commercial flight sim, You missed my point completely.... there is a lot you can learn before going off to flight school. You can become familiar with cockpits so when you first sit in the real real thing you are not overwhelmed by the the experience... you will also have an understanding of how a plane flies you will have an understanding of landing patterns angle of attack why you need flaps how they work knowing runway making's the list is endless.... Yes a sim is a good cheap way to become familiar with aviation.... but not if you treat it just as game then you will get little from it apart from schoolboy fun.....

Edited January 29, 2022 by daspinall

sure you will never get your wings in a none commercial flight sim, You missed my point completely.... there is a lot you can learn before going off to flight school. You can become familiar with cockpits so when you first sit in the real real thing you are not overwhelmed by the the experience... you will also have an understanding of how a plane flies you will have an understanding of landing patterns angle of attack why you need flaps how they work knowing runway making's the list is endless.... Yes a sim is a good cheap way to become familiar with aviation.... but not if you treat it just as game then you will get little from it apart from schoolboy fun.....

 

Sure, simming can ENHANCE the flying experience, but one must start with genuine intent to learn to fly, NOT learn to `sim`.

FIRST you must know - learn - what `flaps` do. You don't learn that from a sim, but one can practice the cause/effect cycle...

Sure, simming can ENHANCE the flying experience, but one must start with genuine intent to learn to fly, NOT learn to `sim`.

FIRST you must know - learn - what `flaps` do. You don't learn that from a sim, but one can practice the cause/effect cycle...

 

Amen!