Real life landings airliners. ILS or manual?

Hello

In FSX when flying airliners, I almost always use ILS autopilot and let the computer fly down the beams , switching off autopilot just a couple hundred feet above touchdown.

Ina discussion st the moment where it is claimed that most of the time, the pilots, in real,life, fly in manually and not on autopilot?

Can a real airline pilot , or someone who definitely knows, tell me whether that is true or not.?

Thanks

Hello

In FSX when flying airliners, I almost always use ILS autopilot and let the computer fly down the beams , switching off autopilot just a couple hundred feet above touchdown.

Ina discussion st the moment where it is claimed that most of the time, the pilots, in real,life, fly in manually and not on autopilot?

Can a real airline pilot , or someone who definitely knows, tell me whether that is true or not.?

 

Thanks

I'm not a real airline pilot, but I am a real pilot, and WHY would a qualified pilot rely on hardware to do ANYTHING they have to be able to demonstrate in all their regular competence tests?

Almost ALL pilots fly the last 500-1,000 ft of an approach MANUALLY so that they can easily do so when they have to... or to demonstrate to a Senior Pilot , examiner or other line pilots!

See:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/columnist/cox/2014/08/11/autopilot-control-takeoff-cruising-landing/13921511/

Thank you. Must hone up the flying skills then😀

Do you reckon they land so much manually because they enjoy it? Seems easier to do it on auto pilot?

When the 100,000 pound aircraft they're flying is headed toward the ground at 140 knots or so, they probably feel much better being in total control.

Not to mention that autoland isn't available on most aircraft for most pilots, so manual control is a MUST. In addition, skills not practiced tend to atrophy, so it's generally in the interest of safety to manually land, as well.

Many will use autopilot until near minimums, or until on short final, then switch to manual, but most will fly the approach manually at least sometimes, too. But it's generally pilot's choice, and most pilots like to fly, so there are all sorts of variations, depending on the pilot, the aircraft, the company (if any) policy, and perhaps other factors.

See:

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/columnist/cox/2014/08/11/autopilot-control-takeoff-cruising-landing/13921511/

Q: What are the pilots doing during while the autopilot is on?

 

-- Art, La Mesa, Calif.

 

A: Most of a flight is flown with the autopilot engaged. This allow the pilots to focus on other important tasks such as navigation, communication and systems operation.

HA! I'd be surfing the Internet and eating junk food. Oh wait... LOL

I've read that South West has their pilots manually land.

And of course in white out conditions due to snow or fog, if your aircraft has autoland you'd probably use it. Or perhaps it's an FAA requirement. I'm not sure. CAT III limitations are pretty hard to fly manually if you ask me.

In the Sim I prefer to manually land. It's just more fun and it's just a game/Sim, so if I biff it no worries. Actually hasn't happened yet believe it or not. Only when I'm messing around and doing stupid things. Though, many years ago I was flying into Auckland, New Zealand in my PMDG 737-700 and nearly biffed it due to the fog the Sim rendered. That was when I was still pretty much new to the aircraft and FS2004 (my first Sim game).

Like what lnuss said, you do get atrophy when you don't fly for a while. I've noticed that just in the Sim, and just recently with the "plague" pilots experienced the same thing which can be a danger to the public. When I flew the PMDG 737 I flew every sticking day because I wanted to learn everything like riding a bike. It was for the most part, but now-a-days I'd have to refresh what I learned again. I can't even for the life of me remember how to intersect a radial from a VOR using the FMC. It's not required in the Sim at all, but I wanted to learn it.

HA! I'd be surfing the Internet and eating junk food. Oh wait... LOL

 

 

 

I've read that South West has their pilots manually land.

 

And of course in white out conditions due to snow or fog, if your aircraft has autoland you'd probably use it. Or perhaps it's an FAA requirement. I'm not sure. CAT III limitations are pretty hard to fly manually if you ask me.

 

In the Sim I prefer to manually land. It's just more fun and it's just a game/Sim, so if I biff it no worries. Actually hasn't happened yet believe it or not. Only when I'm messing around and doing stupid things. Though, many years ago I was flying into Auckland, New Zealand in my PMDG 737-700 and nearly biffed it due to the fog the Sim rendered. That was when I was still pretty much new to the aircraft and FS2004 (my first Sim game).

 

Like what lnuss said, you do get atrophy when you don't fly for a while. I've noticed that just in the Sim, and just recently with the "plague" pilots experienced the same thing which can be a danger to the public. When I flew the PMDG 737 I flew every sticking day because I wanted to learn everything like riding a bike. It was for the most part, but now-a-days I'd have to refresh what I learned again. I can't even for the life of me remember how to intersect a radial from a VOR using the FMC. It's not required in the Sim at all, but I wanted to learn it.

You're answering your own question. Without constant practice, practice and practice, how will you learn to intercept that radial? Same goes goes for landing and takeoff.

Like I pointed out with the "plague" we have been bestowed upon. Since there was a commercial airline furlough, pilots have experienced some atrophy in regards to operating the plane.

A good analogy I can give you is with how the brain retains information. A lot, and I mean a lot of everything you read or hear on a day by day basis gets tossed out of your memory like memory in computer RAM (temporally storage) simply because it's "junk" and not needed anymore. The two chief ways of trying to retain things you want to remember are association and repetition. But like a body builder you have to maintain the rigorous exercise. If at any point you decide to take a hiatus, eventually you'll lose some of what you gained. I guess the same would apply to the Martial Arts or Buddhist Monks. Same could be said of a pianist or painter, etc. Even in the trades like a welder or perhaps an electrician or pipe fitter. (I know how to weld, cut steel and know some electrical work).

Now, I still remember maybe ~70% of the afforded simulated avionics in the PMDG 737, but I haven't flown that particular model in at least eight years now, and I know damn well I'm going to be A) uncomfortable at first flying it again, and B) will have to go back over some things and read over the massive manual to see what I enter in the FMS for something as little as being redirected to another intersection, or even a new altitude restriction. Hell if I remember how I can enter that in the scratch pad and bring it back into the route again. It's just not something my brain kept as "useful information." Especially true since my daily regimen is to learn new things every day and I have notes here all over hell just trying to remember things as simple as the acronym "AN/PRC 117". Or the formula using Sine to figure out the pitch for a whole house fan. (No, I'm not buying a pitch gauge, yo). Then there's a mountain of computer crap I learn everyday, code, cybersecurity crap and going beyond with things like reading the Ukrainian newspapers to see how that crap storm is going to pan out. (Check out the Internet Public Library).

So you can quickly see here that even though I've flown many times with the PMDG 737 each and every single day, when you don't do that for some time (years), and you're also trying to retain other information, it becomes a very tall order for the hard drive so to speak.

On the other hand, my long term memory for certain things is pretty damn impressive to say the least. I'm 41 now and as I'm writing this I can literary remember in CinemaScope-like fashion my preschool teacher showing me how to wash my hands or tie my shoes. I can also remember seeing a flyer for a circus for the first time with a clown as its center piece and thinking to myself just what in the hell that thing was!? To this day I think clowns are massively stupid as all hell. And it tickles me to think people are afraid of that crap. LOL My aunt would turn on WGN to see Bozo and I utterly hated it. LMAO! For me it was G.I. Joe and Thundercats. Clowns, Sesame Street or Mr. Rogers were completely out of the picture for me. G.I. Joe and the freaking Atari!

Anyway... Right now I'm listening to the soundtrack to my favorite N64 game Perfect Dark on Spotify. Thinking about this subject now, if I pulled up the ROM for Perfect Dark I'd still have to think on where this or that was in a level even though I played that game like nobody's business. That was some 20 years ago at least. (Always thought that game could have been an epic movie. The story line demands it).

LOL

I am beginning to think that I must have been misunderstood, ( reading this reply) because it suggests to me that computer ILS approaches are the norm, going to manual in last 500. To 1000ft.

That is what I do in the sim. Which means that the localiser turn lining up with the runway is done by computer, and the glideslope descent also - until 1000ft height or so touchdown.

However the other posts suggest that the whole descent and manoeuvre to line up and descend is regularly done manually.

The only plane I know that does a fully autopilot landing( throttle off on touchdown etc) is the Trident.

That is specifically programmable on the autopilot controls. (Good fun doing it in the sim😀)

Like I pointed out with the "plague" we have been bestowed upon. Since there was a commercial airline furlough, pilots have experienced some atrophy in regards to operating the plane.

 

A good analogy I can give you is with how the brain retains information. A lot, and I mean a lot of everything you read or hear on a day by day basis gets tossed out of your memory like memory in computer RAM (temporally storage) simply because it's "junk" and not needed anymore. The two chief ways of trying to retain things you want to remember are association and repetition. But like a body builder you have to maintain the rigorous exercise. If at any point you decide to take a hiatus, eventually you'll lose some of what you gained. I guess the same would apply to the Martial Arts or Buddhist Monks. Same could be said of a pianist or painter, etc. Even in the trades like a welder or perhaps an electrician or pipe fitter. (I know how to weld, cut steel and know some electrical work).

 

Now, I still remember maybe ~70% of the afforded simulated avionics in the PMDG 737, but I haven't flown that particular model in at least eight years now, and I know damn well I'm going to be A) uncomfortable at first flying it again, and B) will have to go back over some things and read over the massive manual to see what I enter in the FMS for something as little as being redirected to another intersection, or even a new altitude restriction. Hell if I remember how I can enter that in the scratch pad and bring it back into the route again. It's just not something my brain kept as "useful information." Especially true since my daily regimen is to learn new things every day and I have notes here all over hell just trying to remember things as simple as the acronym "AN/PRC 117". Or the formula using Sine to figure out the pitch for a whole house fan. (No, I'm not buying a pitch gauge, yo). Then there's a mountain of computer crap I learn everyday, code, cybersecurity crap and going beyond with things like reading the Ukrainian newspapers to see how that crap storm is going to pan out. (Check out the Internet Public Library).

 

So you can quickly see here that even though I've flown many times with the PMDG 737 each and every single day, when you don't do that for some time (years), and you're also trying to retain other information, it becomes a very tall order for the hard drive so to speak.

 

On the other hand, my long term memory for certain things is pretty damn impressive to say the least. I'm 41 now and as I'm writing this I can literary remember in CinemaScope-like fashion my preschool teacher showing me how to wash my hands or tie my shoes. I can also remember seeing a flyer for a circus for the first time with a clown as its center piece and thinking to myself just what in the hell that thing was!? To this day I think clowns are massively stupid as all hell. And it tickles me to think people are afraid of that crap. LOL My aunt would turn on WGN to see Bozo and I utterly hated it. LMAO! For me it was G.I. Joe and Thundercats. Clowns, Sesame Street or Mr. Rogers were completely out of the picture for me. G.I. Joe and the freaking Atari!

 

Anyway... Right now I'm listening to the soundtrack to my favorite N64 game Perfect Dark on Spotify. Thinking about this subject now, if I pulled up the ROM for Perfect Dark I'd still have to think on where this or that was in a level even though I played that game like nobody's business. That was some 20 years ago at least. (Always thought that game could have been an epic movie. The story line demands it).

 

 

 

 

 

LOL

This was an awsome movie

They don't make 'em like they used to. That's for sure. I like Sci-Fi. Not much of a Star Wars fan though. LOL I'm all about The Matix and The Terminator. And the Matrix is like a hybrid of The Terminator.

Being a creative person, I can appreciate older movies, music and what not. My musical palette ranges from Buddy Holly to Duran Duran, The Red Hot Chili Peppers and lots of other music. I just discovered a woman a few weeks back actually. Caroline von Brunken. Great voice!

Anyway. OP, you need to understand ILS may or may not be used like Miranda v. Arizona... :D LOL