Mac6737 Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 I should have asked this years ago, but I have never understood how much to lean my mixture, and when; ditto altering the prop pitch. Earlier today, I was in the Beechcraft Baron, which has controls for both. At c. 15,000, I just could not get it over about 130 knots. Increasing the mixture % decreased my speed. Does it matter if you're ascending, and the rate of ascent? (I'm guessing yes, but how much difference does it make?) Does altitude matter; that is, will the same mixture percentage at 15,000 result in a different speed at 20,000? Are there instructional materials on all this? Thanks all, Mac6737 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lnuss Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 Leaning is done in order to maintain a near ideal mixture ratio of fuel to air. As the air gets thinner with altitude the fuel flow needs to decrease. Increasing the mixture % decreased my speed. Yes, because too rich a mixture reduces the amount of power the engine can put out, and at 15,000 ft. you are already above something over 40% of the atmosphere, meaning that the air is just short of half as thick (and half as much pressure) as at sea level, so the MAXIMUM power the engine can produce is waaay down. Even at 7,500 feet you're down to about 75 to 80 % of sea level power on engines that are not turbocharged. According to my Bonanza manual (same engine as the Baron), at 6º F (standard temperature) at 15,000 feet, you can set the power at 16.1" of MP and 2500 RPM and get 183 mph (158 kts) max TRUE airspeed and burn 11.3 GPH, which will mean that your INDICATED airspeed will be MUCH less. On the fuel flow vs brake horsepower chart the engine is putting out a max of about 150 HP, or about half of the rated power at sea level. So you don't have a lot of power available, and yes, climb cuts you airspeed since part of your power is diverted to fight gravity more so you can climb. that is, will the same mixture percentage at 15,000 result in a different speed at 20,000? Mixture isn't set in percentage, rather in fuel flow rate, gallons or pounds per hour (depending on the gauge). You may not GET TO 20,000, especially since you're getting into thinner air and need a leaner mixture, and you'll have still less power available at that altitude. So at those altitudes you'll need a turbocharged airplane. Larry N. As Skylab would say: Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lnuss Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 Sorry I got cut short in my previous post -- life happens. The actual leaning procedure for the Baron would be to lean the mixture until the fuel flow reads according to the charts in the manual, but many in real life would lean until the EGT peaks, then enrichen the mixture until about 50º rich of peak. With a fixed pitch prop, you can lean (in level flight) for max RPM, then enrichen just a tad. The constant speed propeller is a little like a continuously variable gear shift on a car (but only a little). With the prop full forward (max RPM) you are set for takeoff, and will develop the maximum power and get the best bite on the air with the prop for takeoff. This is a bit like low gear in your car. Once airborne with the gear and flaps up, (assuming near sea level), bring the throttle back to 25" MP and then the prop back to 2500 RPM for climb (cowl flaps open, please, for cooling). If you are climbing past 4,000 to 5,000 ft then you'll need to lean the engine somewhat in the climb, as indicated above for level flight, and keep making adjustments every couple of thousand feet, or so until you reach you cruising altitude. You also will probably have to add throttle periodically to keep that 25" of MP. As you get to 5,000 ft and above you'll be at full throttle to keep that 25", but as you get higher you'll no longer be able to get 25". By 15,000 ft you might not get more than 15-16", depending on specific conditions (temp, barometer, humidity) Once you reach your cruise altitude, nose over into level flight then as you reach cruise speed reduce power (throttle first, then RPM) to the desired power setting -- you may use pretty much whatever you want so long as you don't exceed 75% power (max continuous rating), and if you want to bring the prop back to 2300 RPM, or even 2100, do that, but don't get the throttle too high (at low altitudes-- not a problem at higher altitudes). I hope all this helps -- if not, please ask for more info, but please be specific on what you need help with, or what wasn't clear from the explanations above. Larry N. As Skylab would say: Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac6737 Posted May 31, 2021 Author Share Posted May 31, 2021 Thanks, Larry. This gives me something to chew on -- tomorrow. Just a few follow-ups for now: What is MP? What is EGT? What does 25" mean? If the on-screen prompt reports mixture as a percentage, of what is it a percentage (if anything), and what has that to do with "gallons per hour"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plainsman Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 (edited) MP is Manifold Pressure EGT is Exhaust Gas Temperature 25" is 25 inches which is a measure of pressure derived from the height of mercury in inches associated with that pressure. Edited May 31, 2021 by plainsman I7-9700K, RTX-2070, Asus Strix Z-390-H MB, 32gb G Skill 3000 CL15, Corsair Obsidian 750D case, WD Black 1tb M.2, Crucial CT500MX SSD, Seasonic Prime 750W Titanium PSU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lnuss Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 Plainsman has it right. There is a Manifold Pressure gauge where you can read the changes as you move the throttle, and it reads in inches of mercury (Hg" for abbreviation). The quote mark has long been an abbreviation for inches, just as a single quote has been an abbreviation for feet. There is also an EGT gauge for each engine in the Baron and many other aircraft with relatively high power engines -- possibly not in a Cessna 172 and similar, though. If the on-screen prompt reports mixture as a percentage, of what is it a percentage (if anything), and what has that to do with "gallons per hour"? I don't have the 2020 sim, so I don't know anything about that "on-screen prompt" or what they mean by percent for mixture -- on the instrument panel you'll read that as GPH (Gallons Per Hour) or PPH (Pounds Per Hour), depending on the aircraft. Larry N. As Skylab would say: Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac6737 Posted May 31, 2021 Author Share Posted May 31, 2021 The quote mark has long been an abbreviation for inches, just as a single quote has been an abbreviation for feet. Everybody knows that. It just made no sense at all to me in this context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lnuss Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 Everybody knows that. It just made no sense at all to me in this context. Granted that most folks know that, but I didn't know your background or much of anything about you except that you are a simmer, not even whether English is your first language, and I'd have hated to leave a loose end, so I added that. Didn't mean to offend. Larry N. As Skylab would say: Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daspinall Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 this lady explains mixture really well.... this guy goes into depth ASRock X570 TAICHI Mother Board AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.79 GHz *Overclocked* Corsair 240mm H100i ELITE CAPELLIX RGB Intel/AMD CPU Liquid Cooler Corsair DOMINATOR PLATINUM RGB 64GB 3600MHz *Overclocked* MSI NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Ti 24GB SUPRIM X Ampere. 1000W PSU. Samsung 870 EVO 2TB SSD. HP Reverb G2 + Oculus Quest 2 Samsung Odyssey G9 C49G95TSSR - QLED monitor - curved - 49" - 5120 x 1440 Dual Quad HD @ 240 Hz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac6737 Posted June 1, 2021 Author Share Posted June 1, 2021 None taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patinthedesert Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 Just a note on this, since we are talking MSFS and the sim experience. Depending on your assistance settings you may be on automixture and the AI brain is controlling it. Not the best for realism but it is one of the choices to be made. I have to admit when I am controlling the mixture setting, I am just guessing on the setting. What is right at 5000? Or at 8000? I don't really know. I think what mas 6737 was referring to by the percentage is what you see in the sim. When you look at the mixture control and move it, it displays a percentage, with 100 being full rich and 0 being full cutoff. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avallillo Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 Not all of the airplanes, and certainly not the ones that come with the sim, are modeled accurately enough that you need to worry about the book settings. If you are interested in such things, a search of the internet for the POH for the make and model you are looking at will likely yield a pdf version of it, and Performance is section 5 in all modern manuals. Don't worry if you have a bit of trouble grasping it -- the advice you got here is excellent, and many pilots know little more about it than you do now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLE_GrummanTiger Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 Some airplanes, like the Diamond DA62 for example, has FADEC engines, which controls the mixture and prop pitch for you. All you have to worry about is tweaking the throttle. Same goes for the TBM-930. Ryzen 5 5600x / NVIDIA 3060 Ti Founder's Edition / ASRock B450M Steel Legend Motherboard / 2TB Inland Premium TLC NVMe SSD / 32GB DDR4-3200 RAM / Monitor: Monoprice Zero-G 35" UWQHD (3440x1440 Ultrawide) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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