HELP with landing the 737-800 using the ILS

I've gotten really good at flying the 737 so decided to tackle the ILS. I've set the localizer frequency and heading and when I get to the airport I usually get established on the localizer hardly ever the glideslope. I've tried coming in high, coming in low and still I get the glideslope indicator but it either just stays high or low, never centers. Can anyone who's expereienced with the ILS landing system explain this to me. What altitude's should I bet at approaching the airport and how far out etc. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

Depending on the aerodrome elevation of the airport, you should be at least 1800' above ground to intercept the glideslope. You should see the glideslope needle at the top prior to intercept. As you make your way closer to the runway the glideslope needle will begin to fall. Once it's centered the altitude autopilot light should distinguish and the APP button would take over. Providing you have the APP button pressed prior to localizer capture.

 

I made this video to try and help people, but I don't know if I can explain it any better. This is in the default Lear 45 with upgrades. Which 737 do you use now?

 

 

Use 720p and full screen.

2,500 ft above the ground, not 1800`. That would be used for smaller aircraft. Usually aim to capture the ILS from about 20-25 miles out about 8-10 minutes from touchdown.

 

BELOW the glideslope so the glideslope indicator slides down to meet the indicator. The aircraft should be in level flight in approach configuration before it `joins` the glideslope and engages APP mode, from where you stabilise the approach with gear down and flap for landing by about 5 miles from touchdown.

 

I believe this is all covered in the FSX Learning Center.

I'm using the default 737 dressed in Delta colors! I just shot another ILS into Austin, Texas and was successful. I came down to 2,500 feet and grabbed the glideslope. Just seems to me that 15-20 miles out from the runway 2,500 feet is way to low. Thanks for you help, watched your video and was pretty much already doing all that.

A good average is that a typical glide slope is 300 ft per nm above the ground (not MSL!) So, at 10nm, the glide slope intercept will be about 3000 ft AGL as a rough estimate.

 

Also, look for ILS approach plates on the internet and learn how to read them.

 

Try this site, scroll down to find instrument approaches and other great info for US airports

 

https://skyvector.com/airports

I've gotten really good at flying the 737 so decided to tackle the ILS. I've set the localizer frequency and heading and when I get to the airport I usually get established on the localizer hardly ever the glideslope. I've tried coming in high, coming in low and still I get the glideslope indicator but it either just stays high or low, never centers. Can anyone who's expereienced with the ILS landing system explain this to me. What altitude's should I bet at approaching the airport and how far out etc. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

 

Every airport is different. Learn to read the ILS charts. In the video one of the key points is "JOMAG". At this point you should be at 9,000' at 11.1 miles out. No guesswork involved. You can use the tools that are in the simulator, that do work. I prefer to try to understand and use the correct procedures.

John - I use the ILS charts from Skyvector. Takes all the guessing out of correct altitudes! Here is an example, I used a runway for Austin 17L:

 

https://skyvector.com/files/tpp/1804/pdf/00556IL17L.PDF

 

At the bottom of the chart for RWY 17L you will see an fan looking thing showing 1600'. That is the altitude you want to be at, 3.3 miles out. If you look to the left it shows 2500' which is basically saying you can be approaching from the north, 2500', but you need to hit that fan image at 1600' Try it, you will see what I am saying after you have practiced ILS landings for awhile! Each airport/runways are different, that's why you have to read the ILS chart for your particular airport/runway you are approaching for ILS landing!

 

Here is the link for Skyvector - https://skyvector.com/

 

Good luck! Once you master ILS, you will be looking for airports which have ILS available!! - Rick

 

 

Sorry Mike and Patty - I didn't notice your link you had already referenced for Skyvector!

John - Also, forgot to mention, charts will help a lot, but if you are going to be flying various large

jets in your simming, get in the habit of using checklists! Airspeeds, flap settings are equally important in setting up for a successful ILS landing(s)!

 

I like this site for getting quick accurate checklists. They don't include ALL aircraft, but most of the MS flight sim default aircraft!

 

http://freechecklists.net/simchecklists.asp

 

Enjoy and happy flying! - Rick

I should let you know that the ILS in FS can be a little wonky, and that may be especially true for default aircraft. Sometimes when you capture the localizer the altitude hold will cut off. So you have to watch for that otherwise you'll miss glideslope capture or worse yet you'll crash. I haven't crashed yet in the Sim and don't plan on making it my first. So make a mental note that when you capture localizer make sure the altitude hold button is still on.

Thanks for all the great suggestions and tips. It's all starting to come together. I was coming in way to high thus the reason I couldn't get established on the glideslope. Since adjusting that I've made like 4 really nice ILS landings. Now all I have to do is get my altitudes over the waypoints down. Again, thanks for everything guys and Happy Flying :)

Cool. Now you can fly with practically no visibility. It really is a great felling to fly a CAT III landing, especially if you hand fly the ILS which is REALLY quite the challenge.

John - I use the ILS charts from Skyvector. Takes all the guessing out of correct altitudes! Here is an example, I used a runway for Austin 17L:

 

https://skyvector.com/files/tpp/1804/pdf/00556IL17L.PDF

 

At the bottom of the chart for RWY 17L you will see an fan looking thing showing 1600'. That is the altitude you want to be at, 3.3 miles out. If you look to the left it shows 2500' which is basically saying you can be approaching from the north, 2500', but you need to hit that fan image at 1600'.

 

That "fan looking thing" is the Final Approach Fix (FAF) for a non-precision approach, in this case that would mean a glideslope inop situation.

 

On this plate that point is coincidental with the precision approach FAF, that is not always the case.

 

This is a good check point as this is where the outer marker is, so when you see the OM light come on you should cross check your altitude is 1600 MSL. However you do not need to shoot for a glideslope intercept there, you can (should) shoot for GS intercept further out than that.

 

While you are correct in stating that you want to cross that point at 1600', there is nothing in the cockpit to tell you that you are 3.3 nm from the threshold. As the DME transmitter is at the far end of the runway, you would be looking for 4.9 on the DME, not 3.3. If you cross 3.3 DME @ 1600' you will be high, probably too high to safely land.

 

As for "If you look to the left it shows 2500' which is basically saying you can be approaching from the north, 2500'", that is only true if you are established on the localizer. If not established you would have to reference the MSA (Minimum Safe Altitude) circle. OK, in this instance that would be 2600' and 100' might not seem like much, on other approaches it will be different.

 

peace,

the Bean

...you should be at least 1800' above ground to intercept the glideslope.

 

2,500 ft above the ground, not 1800`. That would be used for smaller aircraft. Usually aim to capture the ILS from about 20-25 miles out ...

 

Just to be clear, you should state "above airport elevation", not "above ground" as that could be interpreted as needing to be at that altitude above the ground at glideslope intercept and that would be difficult to determine, let alone potentially unsafe ;)

 

peace,

the Bean

Just to be clear, you should state "above airport elevation", not "above ground" as that could be interpreted as needing to be at that altitude above the ground at glideslope intercept and that would be difficult to determine, let alone potentially unsafe ;)

 

peace,

the Bean

 

John, Yes, Bean is correct when you select your altitude, it will be above airport elevation, and not above ground level (sounds confusing right? all airports have a established elevation above sea level), when making ILS approaches, you don't have any calculations to make as long as you use the established FAF (fan looking object I used) in an appropriate ILS chart! If you look at some of the established altitudes, you may ask yourself why is my approach so much higher for this airport? They have already taken into account, the airport elevation! To make it sound easier, and I am not underestimating your knowledge of Flight Sim, you could have an airport that has an elevation of 16', that is 16' above sea level. If you were to pull up an ILS approach for an airport with such an elevation, the approach level at that ILS might be 1500'! Take that same scenario, but an airport with an elevation of 1000' , might have an approach level of 2500'. The system no matter which aircraft you are using and which airport you are approaching, has already taken into account the elevation of the airport. Just use the FAF (Fan looking object I mentioned) as Bean has correctly pointed out and you will be okay on your approaches! No calculations needed, just hit the approach at the FAF and ILS will take it from there! As Jimmy Buffet used to sing, "Keeping it Simple Stupid!" So easy to say, but I don't think he intended it for FSX! But, it still applies!

 

I think you are on your way of enjoying ILS approach to landings! Enjoy them, they certainly make things easier with the "Big Bad Boys" that we are now able to partake! 737,747,757,767,777 (don't like them) and 787's, bring them on! Airbus aircraft, another breed in itself, used to hate them, but they have certain characteristics of their own, which is a little opposite of the Boeings! Once you know works for each, ILS is a breeze for either!

 

Enjoy John, any more questions or concerns, please post another! That's what I like about this site, people wanting to help people in need, and they do a good job doing it!

 

Happy flying! - Rick

Sorry Rick, I am in a bit of a pedantic semantics mood today...

 

... you use the established FAF (fan looking object I used) in an appropriate ILS chart!... Just use the FAF (Fan looking object I mentioned)

 

The fan looking object is the FAF for non-precision approaches.

 

The ILS is a precision approach.

 

Why am I harping on this?

 

If you look at this plate...KAUS RWY 17L CAT II & III

 

...you will see that there is no fan looking thingy.

 

The "lightning bolt" object is the glideslope intercept point.

 

That name can be a bit deceiving as you could infer from it that you must intercept the glideslope there.

 

You could cross RRTOO in level flight at 2500' and intercept the glideslope long before DDTOO (somebody likes Star Wars). In fact, crossing RRTOO at 2500' the glideslope will be very close to centered anyway.

 

RRTOO is 3 nm from DDTOO and the glideslope is 3° which is 318'/nm. 3x318=954' and the plate shows 900 feet difference between the two points.

 

I realize this is probably far too much detail for the sim and acknowledge that planning for crossing the "fan thingy" at the altitude shown will work, for this approach one would only be concerned about the "fan thingy" if the glideslope was inop.

 

I also hope to avoid the future post from someone who cannot find the fan thingy on an approach plate.

 

peace,

the Bean

I would just say that take all the advice of the comments here by simmers...BUT...immediate success is not going to happen for you as it takes a lot of practice practice and more practice and lots of crashes...to not have so many crashes learn how to use the go around for another approach to your intended runway...it is time consuming but avoids a crash on your intitial attempt...No 2...pay attention to the speed and information of your FMC for your approach and landing altitude and set the appropriate entries into the FMC...then learn to use the APP button on the 737 panel with the abovementioned info I mentioned...once you get all that straight you will see yourself making improvement in your landing skills.....Also, let the A/P take you down to about 2 or 3 miles from your runway...then turn off the A/T and the A/P...and hand fly the 737 onto the runway .After you master this you can then hand fly or whatever you want from a greater distance...this is what I do...and hope you continue to get good results as the 737-800 is a great airplane to fly as a simmer...Also, It is important to know/determine the top of descent point to start the descent into your intended runway...I usually start a few miles ahead of that point perhaps even 7 miles before just to make sure I am low enough at the end...again just my opinion...and I am not a professional pilot by any means..

Just to be clear, you should state "above airport elevation", not "above ground" as that could be interpreted as needing to be at that altitude above the ground at glideslope intercept and that would be difficult to determine, let alone potentially unsafe ;)

 

peace,

the Bean

 

I used the previous vernacular to avoid getting the topic too complicated. Which it has done.

 

I f you would like to quote anything from my post, make it:

 

I believe this is all covered in the FSX Learning Center.

 

Which was the real point of my answer..

I guess I have been doing non-precision approaches all this time! When I create my flight plans, I usually chose a waypoint about 10-11 miles out from the runway, have my ILS frequency set ahead of time, have my altitude set at the same as the fan "thingy as Bean calls it!" indicates, and then I select appr just prior to the intercept, so I guess you could call my approach "level" which is fine in VFR, but doesn't do the job in IFR, when things might be totally socked in and need that extra altitude and distance to the end of the runway!

 

Sorry Bean and all that have read my posts. I may have confused this issue even more, but I was recalling my method of getting the aircraft down with a little help from the automation that the aircraft affords me. I guess I will continue with the non-precision approaches as I have done them. Seems a whole lot easier and less charts and altitudes to look at! Flying all my flight VFR, so anything beyond that, I don't need. It is a flight simulator and I can make the situations whatever I please to make them!

 

Oh, and Bean, I did look at the 17L Cat II/III chart and I never noticed the "fan thingy" not being there, as I have never looked at a Cat II/III chart before, but I have learned something out of it!

 

Thanks, guys, and happy flying! - Rick