Some AI aircraft do not turn

Hi,

Have few flyable aircraft which I programmed with TTools to fly as AI (Concorde, some Boeings, Airbuses and also the vintage Constallation). All these fly great as AI and I can see the whole flight in my Traffic Tool board from taxi out to taxi in.

Just recently I have obtained some flyable DC7s and Caravelle which, when programmed as AI, taxi OK, line up for the take-off OK, keep gaining altitude OK but after given a different course by ATC (repeatedly) , do not turn but follow the straight TO runway path.

As some aircraft do and some do not, I believe that there might be an adjustment in the air file or aircraft.cfg to enable these turn as well.

Any hint would be much appreciated,

Thanks

Peter

Yes, it's in the AIR file.

I don't know which DC-7 you are using, but if it is the CalClassic version I have an AI DC-7 (the "HQ" or high quality version) which uses the CalClassic flyable aircraft textures (and looks identical), but also has multiple LODs (for better frame rates) and AI animations of the flaps, doors, etc.

Available on my AI Aircraft page.

Hope this helps,

Aircraft flying AI flight plans are controlled by the FS9 AI engine, which is a rather rudementry affair but only as far as ATC controlled AI flights are concerned. Using flyable aircarft as AI makes no difference for the AI engine and when flying any AI flight plan, none will actually be controlled by ATC all the way between airports, like piloted aircarft are when they follow their non AI flight plans.

AI aircraft will always fly in straight lines between airports, using the shortest possible routes and will even fly straight through mountains if they get in their way.

In short therefore, AI aircraft lead a life of their own and cannot be expected to fully comply with ATC instructions.

Why you are structurally using flyable aircraft as AI is strange because sooner or later they will hit your frame rates hard. There are very many AI versions of all the aircraft that you named and which are freely available in the library.

Hope this helps you to understand the FS9 AI engine, which is in fact extremely complex but not perfect.

Hans

Hi Gents,

thanks for your input but I have hundreds of flight plans I made for the AI and often watch individual flights in the Traffic tool board (this is sometimes fascinating). Contrary to what Hans mentioned the AI actually very well respond to ATC fly the route and line up on approaches the same way as when we fly. I even made my own (between the mountains) ILS approaches and AI respond very well. Additionally back to my initial post I have few flyable aircraft, which fly and respond to ATC very well. It is only in this last instance when the recent DC7 and Caravelle flyable A/C I got and when programmed as AI follow the straight path when told by ATC to turn. So I believe that colr1948 is probably right that the issue is with the AIR file. I can adjust this file with AIRED, so was hoping that someone knows what parameters to adjust to prevent this behavior. Cheers

Peter

As for using AIRED to alter the air file, just try using a file from a similar aircraft, that sometimes works and saves you a lot of time and effort.

I've perposly set a flight plan for an aircraft to fly low in a mountainous region, what I found was the ATC told the AI aircraft to climb to avoid the mountain, then descend again once clear, but it has to be a IFR flight not a VFR.

Hi ColR1948,

I will give it a shot but would not like to mess up the air file, since these aircraft (which do not listen to ATC as AI) fly great! as flyable. So will duplicate the aircraft for AI only with different air file, as suggested and program with TTools. Curious what happens, will let you know.

Cheers

Peter (1948 also:)

I think you miunderstood, just change the air file in the aircraft.cfg

where it says sim=XXXXX

change it to sim=Boeing737-400

then save as.

Hi,

If you want to modify the flyable AIR file, it's section 1199 that needs to be added from a working AI aircraft AIR file. You can use copy/paste in AirEd.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/airfile-sec-1199-seems-totally-useless-not-for-ai.434522/

Hope this helps,

Many thanks gents.

ColR1948, I see your point but I went the long way and actually copied a different air file (from the AI similar aircraft) into the flyable aircraft folder and renamed it to match with the sim= in aircraft. cfg - the same result.

Also Tom many thanks, I noted that the section 1199 is missing in those two flyable aircraft I attempted to fly as AI (by the way it is a Caravelle and DC7-C). So will attempt to copy in this section. Never fiddled with air files but will try to copy and paste as suggested.

In the meantime, when I used AI air files in flyable aircraft I did not get too much success. The aircraft were turning as directed by ATC but seemed to shake, rock and the altitude was up and down a lot (ATC reprimanding). BOAC DC7 actually got from PHL close to JFK but when assigned to 31L started doing the circles over the Atlantic. See the picture.

Interesting, will play with it some more.

Cheers

Peter

Hi Peter,

Your flyable Caravelle and DC7-C wouldn't be fitted with a full Autopilot, as Tom has already confirmed.

In addition to adding section 1199 to the .air file for each aircraft, you'll also need to add a few sections into each aircraft.cfg file too if they're not there already (I'd copy and paste these from the default C172 aircraft.cfg):

[Autopilot]

[Radios] - because you need Nav1 to have glideslope

[direction_indicators]

[attitude_indicators]

[turn_indicators]

The three 'indicators' are actually the gyros which drive the autopilot - essential! I suspect it's the [turn_indicators] section that's missing from each aircraft.cfg.

Hi gents,

MANY thanks.

Have added section 1199 to the air file (as Tom suggested) and the flyable Caravelle flies great! as AI. Also, I made sure that the aircraft cfg sections (as Tiger suggested) are there. The only issue I encountered is that the aircraft, although takes off and flies great, does not land. It goes around repeatedly. I think it has something to do with the rate of descent. I tried to increase the aircraft cfg autopilot default_vertical_speed but it did not help. Perhaps there is a parameter in air file to increase the AI descent rate? Please let me know.

Again!!!! MANY thanks for all your help.

Cheers

Peter

Hi Peter, glad you're making progress! The Caravelle not landing may be due it's radio not having a glideslope frequency. Try copying and pasting the [Radios] section from the default C172 aircraft.cfg into the Caravelle aircraft.cfg, it should look like this:

[Radios]

// Radio Type = availiable, standby frequency, has glide slope

Audio.1 = 1

Com.1 = 1, 1

Com.2 = 1, 1

Nav.1 = 1, 1, 1

Nav.2 = 1, 1

Adf.1 = 1

Transponder.1 = 1

Marker.1 = 0

As you have found, the DC-7C flyable version does indeed do poorly as an AI aircraft. That's why I have created an AI version that uses the same textures. File #2 on this page:

http://www.calclassic.com/AIAircraft.htm

Hope this helps,

Thanks Tom,

I admire your work and got lot of aircraft you created. MANY THANKS!!! I guess my desire to make the flyable aircraft fly as AI was strictly a curiosity to find out which parameters in either aircraft.cfg or the air file need to be adjusted to achieve this. I succeeded about 1/2 way; after finding out that the section 1099 needs to be in AI air file and also some mandatory entries in cfg. But enough of that, I will stick to the flyable and AI as developed by your expertise and forget about experimenting. I made the flyable DC7 actually fly OK and land but the nose wheel never came down and the aircraft did not stop and overshoot the runway. So will use your nice AI instead. To all of you MANY!! thanks for your help. Cheers

Peter

@beroum,

I have a few flyable models flying as AI, mainly because the model was better or there was no livery for the AI model.

I'm a bit of a tweaker so I do experiment, all you have to remember is make a back up copy of the aircraft you are working on, then if it goes pear shaped you still have the original.

Col.

Hi ColR1948

Absolutely agree. My words also and the back-ups are essential. I actually learned a lot from you guys in this exchange. MANY thanks.

Peter