How does installing gauges into Virtual Cockpits differ from 2D cockpit panels?

I've moved and resized gauges on 2D panels but not in VC cockpits. Usually you would specify height and width of gauge then horizontal and vertical position on the 2D panels. Dumb question> Do you have to specify depth in a VC or anything else different from a 2D? Any other tips?

Want to get a universal FMC to use in all the VC's of the default planes. Preferably a INTEGRATED FMC that can be clicked for a popup window.

THANKS!

Sorry, guess this should have been posted in 'Panel & Gauge Design'

Gauge positions in the VC are part of the VC 3D model. You cannot change their size or location like you can with 2D. And you can't add new gauges unless you have the original 3D model source files of the internal model and a suitable 3D software.

What you can do is to replace a gauge that is already there, by changing the gauge.xx definition in the VC part of the panel.cfg to reference your own gauge. But you cannot change the size of it, you have to fit it into the "frame" that has been cut into the VC.

The ususal solution for "universal" gauges still is the 2D instrument. Unless the developer of the VC made provisions to add something - like they sometimes do for the F1 GTN 750 series or the RealityXP stuff.

...Unless the developer of the VC made provisions to add something - like they sometimes do for the F1 GTN 750 series or the RealityXP stuff.

I understand what your telling me. A perfect example is my RealAir Dukes were you can actually add a aftermarket GPS and shuffle the radios around in the center of the panel.

So there is no "laying" a working FMC gauge over the non-functional FMC image in a standard VC, only choice is a FMC on a popup window. Damn!

I understand what your telling me. A perfect example is my RealAir Dukes were you can actually add a aftermarket GPS and shuffle the radios around in the center of the panel.

 

So there is no "laying" a working FMC gauge over the non-functional FMC image in a standard VC, only choice is a FMC on a popup window. Damn!

The alternative would be to just use flat surfaces in the VC, displaying the same 2D gauges as ever (a bit like what you see in some addons, where not even the switches are 3D). These lovely detailed VCs are only possible with a massive effort in 3D modelling - resulting in a rigid, hard-coded structure.

I have used both methods - installing the instrument in the Gmax model, but mostly in the panel.cfg. Opening the panel.cfg & scanning down to the Virtual cockpit entries will tell you & if they are listed there then you should be able to change the instrument. You will be limited by the 'projection screen' provided in the Gmax model though.

Good luck

Keith

So there is hope. I've seen default FSX radios place in cheaper payware add-ons that are not obviously 3D modeled.

So the million dollar question is...How on earth would you locate the general position for a 2D gauge in a VC 3D world?

Sometimes the co-ordinate's are in the Panel.cfg but other times I think their hidden away in a .DLL which can't be viewed.

So there is hope. I've seen default FSX radios place in cheaper payware add-ons that are not obviously 3D modeled.

 

So the million dollar question is...How on earth would you locate the general position for a 2D gauge in a VC 3D world?

That is actually pretty simple. Take a look at the panel.cfg, section [VCockpitxx]. The gauge definition and positions are in there - and they are all that you can use. The [VCockpitxx] instrument panel is a flat plane, and the positions of the gauges are just as you know them. But if said bitmap is not a gauge in there - end of the line.

Well, not entirely. You can try and add another gauge there, hoping that the developer did not put a 3D bezel in front of the panel. But that really is hit or miss. And in most cases it will not work. For example in the default planes, AFAIK the center console with the FMCs is no instrument panel at all, just a textured object. Only the VC developer could turn it into a panel.

Re: DLL

No, the coordinates and placement of a gauge are always in the panel.cfg.

The DLL is the "body" of a programmatic gauge (GDI+, Direct X or Scaleform) which has been made by writing a C++ program that displays the gauge visuals. You cannot "view" them because there is nothing to see - they are compiled program code. Glass cockpits, FMCs, GPS units, Radars and the like usually are programmatic gauges, because the standard gauge technology is not capable enough for these tasks. I made a few of those recently, and I can tell you that it wasn't pretty. A lot of work and a lot of fiddling. Documentation is minimal, resulting in a constant cycle of trial&error.

OK, maybe it's just me....has too much coffee affected my sanity?? Is evm's secret identity really lorby-si, or is there really 2 guys from Germany named Oliver Binder?:eek:

Thank gawd it's Saturday!:p

Thanks for sharing your knowledge evm.

One last question. Here is part of a Panel.cfg to retrofit a ISG FMC to a AeroSim 787. Could you shed some light on what all the configuration information is in BOLD before I tackle some of this?

[Vcockpit01]

Background_color=33,37,33

size_mm=1024,1024

visible=1

pixel_size=1024, 1024

texture=$B8_VC1

gauge00=AS_B8!LINE, 358,4,2,392

gauge01=AS_B8!RADIO, 0,400,220,200

gauge02=AS_B8!RADIO, 221,400,220,200

gauge03=AS_B8!RADIO, 442,400,220,200

gauge04=AS_B787!as_cabin_screen, 670,404,230,194

gauge05=AS_B8!OH, 118,603,736,735

gauge06=AS_B8!MC, 40,603,38,37

gauge07=AS_B8!MC, 40,673,38,38

gauge08=AS_B8!GNDP, 0,750,118,117

gauge09=AS_B8!ABK, 890,877,88,87

gauge10=AS_B8!GEAR, 888,772,100,99

gauge11=AS_B787!compass, 0,877,145,100

gauge12=AS_B787!stby_pfd, 855,603,168,166

gauge13=FSFK-ACARS!Device, 746,28,245,338,15372|8011|0|3|0|Default|100000

gauge14=isg1!SMITHS_FMS, 101, 4 ,253,392

gauge15=isg1!SMITHS_FMS, 364,4,253,392

gauge16=FSFK-ACARS!HotspotInv, 0,0,1,1,15372|8011|0|3|0|Default|100000

Hello Mr. Zippy,

no, they are both me.

Sorry about that, I wanted to establish a "business personality" and ended up having both accounts active. Guess I have to be more careful about which one is logged in...

gauge13=FSFK-ACARS!Device, 746,28,245,338,15372|8011|0|3|0|Default|100000

gauge14=isg1!SMITHS_FMS, 101, 4 ,253,392

gauge15=isg1!SMITHS_FMS, 364,4,253,392

gauge16=FSFK-ACARS!HotspotInv, 0,0,1,1,15372|8011|0|3|0|Default|100000

Sorry, not a clue. The first four numbers are the position and size of the gauge, the rest could be developer specific.

btw. a gauge definition in here isn't necessarily a visible instrument on the panel. Some are just placeholders for systems simulations or even 2D gauges. For example, FS2Crew and FSCaptain are using that method, although the instrument itself is just a 2D popup (albeit a programmatic one).

This is one of a few where the ISG FMC is actually placed onto the VC.

Looks like these two lines place the 2 FMC's side by side. The other Panel.cfg [VcockpitXX] entry's must place the side panels in place of the default Aerosim.

gauge14=isg1!SMITHS_FMS, 101, 4 ,253,392

gauge15=isg1!SMITHS_FMS, 364,4,253,392

I'm still thinking in 2D panels. You know where the beginning and end is...

Considering a VC is all around you and there are gauges in front, overhead, left and right of you (even some behind in some cases) WHERE IS THE START OF THE VC and WHERE DOES IT END?

To evm,

Thanks for your VC gauge education. I was experimenting with the AeroSim 787 VC that I merged to the TDS, since I found the above co-ordinates online and placed the freeware FMC from the FlightSim library and default GPS 500 on the first try...

gauge31=fs9gps!gps_500, 746,28,245,338

gauge32=HoneywellFMC!fmc, 101,4,253,392

gauge33=HoneywellFMC!fmc, 364,4,253,392

Locating the Pilot side GPS on the left also placed the Co-Pilot GPS on the right.

The 2 FMC's side by side.

THANKS AGAIN

I'm still thinking in 2D panels. You know where the beginning and end is...

 

Considering a VC is all around you and there are gauges in front, overhead, left and right of you (even some behind in some cases) WHERE IS THE START OF THE VC and WHERE DOES IT END?

The developer places surfaces into the 3D model, and gives them a certain identifier. This tells the sim, that if someone puts a VCockpit definition into the panel.cfg and associates gauges with it, then it will place them on the designated surface. So the positioning of the gauge is basically a 2D process on a sheet in a 3D environment. Complex VCs can have more than 20 VCockpit definitions. And this is the reason why you cannot just put a gauge anywhere you like, you first have to stick a 2D panel into the 3D model to put it on.

The classic 2D panels are not part of the 3D modelling, they are just overlay "frames" over the 3D environment behind them. They don't care about the direction you are looking, you could assign them all backwards if you like.

I guess Microsoft wanted to make sure that developing panels in the VC environment wouldn't be too different from what developers did for many years before, so they implemented this approach where you assign flat surfaces to be essentially 2D panels. And if you want to make that look really nice, you put 3D bezels and switches on top of the gauges - which in turn limits the visible gauges to what you can see through the bezels. If they left it completely blank, you could arrange gauges on it like in 2D.