Ice Conditions

[jgf]

Does FS2004 model ice at all?

 

The more I read the less I know (a man with one clock always knows what time it is, a man with two clocks is never sure).  One thread will advise to monitor the OAT and use carb heat and deicing when necessary.  Another, often on the same site, will state categorically the sim does not model ice and all those gauges are mere eye candy.

 

Ages ago I downloaded a gauge that purports to simulate ice conditions by monitoring the weather and increasing weight/drag and lowering lift to simulate ice on the airframe, whether it works or whether I've ever even flown into ice conditions I cannot say.

 

 

[lnuss]

I know the sim features carburetor ice. Given the right weather conditions, carb ice will cause engine power loss or even engine failure under certain circumstances. I'm not sure about wing icing, since I never did much IFR (or bad weather) in FS2004, and I've not had it on my system for at least a dozen years. But carb ice I experienced when I had that version.

 

[Baron Fritz]

JGF, this may be the ice warning gauge of which you speak;  IceWarning.xml. I tried to attach a folder containing the complete gauge, however that doesn't seem to be possible. I have also attached an article on airframe icing, which may be of interest.

sa11.pdf icing.txt readme.txt

[defaid]

37 minutes ago, Baron Fritz said:

JGF, this may be the ice warning gauge of which you speak;  IceWarning.xml. I tried to attach a folder containing the complete gauge, however that doesn't seem to be possible. I have also attached an article on airframe icing, which may be of interest.

 

 

You got there before me

 

The original gauge/upload from which your icing.txt was taken was Charles Owen's icev10.zip. I couldn't find it either but have an archived copy. Better, there's one upload in the library that references it and, while it is an FSX gauge, it may be applicable to FS9 too. It's called FSX Icing Gauge but just searching for the original "icev10" takes you to it.

 

The answer to the question is yes, FS9 does model prop, carb & structural icing as well as pitot icing, and you can see power drop and a/c weight increase (so air speed decrease & stall speed increase), but it's only implemented to a somewhat milk-and-water degree and is unlikely to have any effect without the intensification provided by the gauge. The best excuse for this is that FS is a game and who would buy a game where you fall out of the sky every time you hit a cold cloud?

 

Also, because structural, carb & prop icing in FS9 depend on weather, and weather depends mostly on metars, and metars rarely mention icing, it's almost never encountered. In my experience, pitot icing happens much more frequently so that one may have a different trigger.

 

D

[jgf]

That is the gauge i have but, as stated, I've no idea whether it actually does anything.

 

In the docs he states,

"There are in fact four forms of icing in MSFS (2004 and FSX): pitot,
carburator, propeller, and structural. But in our report here we're mostly
talking about the last two.  Neither the pitot nor the carb icing in the sim
is particularly realistic but at least their effects are obvious and easily
seen and, and if not dealt with properly the consequences won't be pleasant.
But because those two aren't so mysterious we're not going to waste further
time on them.  Let's investigate the "hidden" (and therefore mysterious and
exciting) features of structural and propeller icing."

 

Yet there are many forum posts that flatly state there is no ice in FS2004.

[defaid]

3 minutes ago, jgf said:

Yet there are many forum posts that flatly state there is no ice in FS2004.

 

Sorry -- I'm not sure which post you were replying to.

 

All icing is modelled in FS9. The gauge intensifies the effect. The posts that state there is no structural or prop icing in FS9 are based on game-experience rather than on parameter observation.

 

Set severe icing in the Weather menu, prevent weather from changing (you shed ice very quickly when you fly out of it), and watch power, weight, speed & stall speed while you fly. AFSD is the best utility for watching those parameters. You will have to set severe icing and fly for 20 minutes or so in the stock Cessna, much longer in a plane with a bigger power:weight ratio.

 

D

[Baron Fritz]

Apparently one is not allowed to post attachments..... sorry about that.

[mrzippy]

2 hours ago, Baron Fritz said:

Apparently one is not allowed to post attachments..... sorry about that.

Your attachments are there.  One would click on them and download.  I just tried one!

[Baron Fritz]

Hmmmm.... at my end, I get an intermittent message saying that they are not available. I had originally intended to post only the gauge, however obviously, I don't know how to go about it. Or maybe there is zero interest in any case?

[ScottishMike]

On several occasions when flying at altitude (it has happened in airbus 3xx models and boeing 777), the indicated air speed has gone to zero, the autopilot then increases speed as it thinks the aircraft is travelling at 0Kts, I only noticed glancing at the GPS showing a ground speed of almost 500 knts.

I did not have pitot heat on as I thought it made no difference. The problem usually cleared at lower altitude. I am not sure if it's a bug or the sim trying to mimic an iced pitot. I never managed to replicate the problem in a controlled manner so not sure of the cause or causes.

[jgf]

10 hours ago, defaid said:

Sorry -- I'm not sure which post you were replying to.

 

I'd have to spend another hour online to get those links.  When I have a question I try to find the answer myself, finding nothing or there being no consensus I come here;  FlightSim has been my "go to" place for information since the days of FS98.

 

This was a case of no consensus.

 

I'm returning to FS after a couple years' absence and relearning things i once knew or exploring new facets of the sim.

[defaid]

On 6/5/2023 at 10:29 AM, defaid said:

 

Sorry -- I'm not sure which post you were replying to.

 

 

14 hours ago, jgf said:

 

I'd have to spend another hour online to get those links. 

 

Lol. I meant mine or Baron Fritz'. I'd never ask anyone to go trawling on my behalf for posts in other forums.

[defaid]

14 hours ago, ScottishMike said:

I am not sure if it's a bug or the sim trying to mimic an iced pitot.

 

That's FS9's pitot icing.

 

Of the four modelled types, it's the most easily recognised and the most frequent. I turn pitot heat on as a matter of course as it doesn't use extra fuel and doesn't seem to degrade performance in any other way.