Jump to content

Flight gear 18.3.2 initial set up


flytv1

Recommended Posts

Hi everyone.

It's been a while since I used Fight Gear, and as I recall I did not have any problems, but decided to try it again and I am running into some difficulties.

When I install and Fly in the default mode I get a Left vie of the acft and it thinks it's Forward, see pic.

System is Win 7 64 bit, with Saitek Cyborg X, and FG is 2018.3.2. It finds the JS but I cannot select a Forward cockpit view using the V key, or any other way?

Another question is how to add the second controller like the Rudder pedals?

Any ideas.

Thanks.

 

FG-ViewProb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 57
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

Hi everyone.

I was able to find a solution to the Cyborg / FG start up problem, as described in my previous post. Very frustrating it it turns many people away from using this sim.

It is a known problem but there was no fix included for some reason.

My suggestion would be start with a Basic controller and have the sim come up at least to the level that shows up properly, rather than try to attempt something that does not work and turns people away after the first install.

The file that needs to be modified is Cyborg-X.xml located in ...\FlightGear201832\data\Input\Joysticks\Saitek

The solution is to add the 2 lines + that start with the

The second line enables the CH Pro pedals ...Input/Joysticks/CH/pro-pedals..

I am somewhat disappointed in the direction, and the progress, that was made in the last 10 years spending too much time and resources on things like Smoke / Fog / Particles and other useless futures and not sufficient improvement on Scenery rendering resolution, Flight model...

>>

axis 6: (hat up-down) look u/d Trim Elevator Adj Propeller #

 

-->

 

 

+

+

 

 

 

 

- Saitek Cyborg X

Cyborg X

- F.L.Y 5

- FLY 5

- FLY5

- Mad Catz Mad Catz F.L.Y.5 Stick

- Saitek FLY5

- Saitek F.L.Y. 5

- Saitek FLY 5

 

 

Edited by flytv1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't comment much on the controller issue since (for various reasons) I mostly fly with the mouse. I guess it's always frustrating if what you're trying to do doesn't work on the initial try - I had the same issue with the FSX demo which instisted in starting in a 3d mode for which I'd need special goggles and I couldn't make it stop that...

 

My own philosophy would largely agree with you - start simple, then enable things step by step, see whether something fails in every step. Needless to say, there's other opinions around and developers who try to make the first-time experience as easy as possible - which is bad if it does not work.

 

But I'm glad you found a solution after all.

 

I am somewhat disappointed in the direction, and the progress, that was made in the last 10 years spending too much time and resources on things like Smoke / Fog / Particles and other useless futures

 

I'm very sure that since I first ran into FG, nobody has spent any time on smoke/particles - they're a native OpenSceneGraph feature integrated badly into the FG rendering pipeline.

 

Generally if someone spends time on a feature, at least that person doesn't think it useless - lots of people think spaceflight useless, but it interests me and it's my time to spend - after all, I'm not getting paid, so my only reward is coding what I enjoy.

 

and not sufficient improvement on Scenery rendering resolution, Flight model...

 

Let's say I massively disagree here.

 

JSBSim as flight dynamics engine is everything you might wish for as an aircraft maintainer - I was able to put in lots of NASA aerodynamics and got a faithful simulation back - even up to minor control issues in corner cases mentioned here and there in Shuttle manuals.

 

That amount of data isn't used or available everywhere, and quality across individual aircraft varies according to ability and interest of the respective maintainers - but the tools for a high fidelity simulation are available.

 

As for the terrain, again we have the tools to render details at

 

Which means what you get to see and experience strongly depends on what plane and what location you pick - and I venture the guess the same is true for pretty much every other flightsim as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Thorsten and everyone.

I appreciate the effort of all the contributors that offer their time and effort, in particular when they do it for free. I've spent many thousands of hours doing the same over the years and I know the effort needed to create something.

My intention is to point out some issues that can, and should have, been resolved, some were and reintroduced and that is the most annoying.

When I mentioned the Flight model I specifically referred to the physical model, like the view from inside the cockpit to see the Top of cowl and the Right and Left wing tips, as you do in the real aircraft.

That cannot be done in the 172. In the 182RG the instrument panel is not finished / partly done?

When you start some acft the ATIS keeps going on and on regardless of what the Com frequency is set at...

That said the Flight dynamics of the 172 is closer to the real life 172, in particular in the Low RPM range than the XP11.

I am still prepared to support it given the time constraints I have, and I just started testing a Voice control app called Vocals that works with FG but it does not send the Alt+key to the app properly and I am trying to see if it can be fixed, it's open source.

I started with voice recognition back in the mid 80s and spent a lot of time with the SpeechBuddy, for FS9 and FSX... about 15-20 years ago and have gone through my variations of set ups and controls from Motion platforms, to multi screens, to realistic hardware for radios.., Yokes.. and I am now back to Voice control Rudder pedals and Joystick. What is old is new again.

If and when I get a Profile done for the Vocals, and if I can find a fix for Alt+key, I will post it here in case others want to use it.

I tried the FGCom but I cannot get it to work as stand alone, it looks like it's deigned for multiplayer?

 

 

 

 

C182RG-FG.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I mentioned the Flight model I specifically referred to the physical model, like the view from inside the cockpit to see the Top of cowl and the Right and Left wing tips, as you do in the real aircraft.

That cannot be done in the 172.

 

I'm sorry, I don't understand. Do you mean you can't see the wing tips in the C-172? Why not? You can adjust view position, view direction and field of view with mouse gestures to anything you like, or you can configure your own default views, I believe FGCamera offers a joystick-controlled camera motion,...

 

Or did I grossly misunderstand that?

 

In the 182RG the instrument panel is not finished / partly done?

 

Surely not all aircraft are fully developed, but the 182S for me looks like that (it's one of those at the visual top end):

 

http://www.science-and-fiction.org/FG/pics/c182s.jpg

 

(and incidentially, the shot also shows the amount of terrain detail and undergrowth we can render - that's the Atmospheric Light Scattering rendering framework in case you're wondering) - so if you'd set your eyes on a variant of the craft, you'd see something rather different.

 

When you start some acft the ATIS keeps going on and on regardless of what the Com frequency is set at...

 

This may be a stupid question, but what about other radio stacks and their com frequency? Usually 1 is tuned to tower and 2 to ATIS for the default setup. I have never experienced the problem that ATIS stays when I tune the radio off the ATIS frequency, nor have I seen any reports. New users occasionally ask how to shut it off, they get told what ATIS is and how radios are tuned, and the problem goes away.

 

Point being, as developers we can't react to things we never see on our own systems and which are never reported.If it doesn't happen for us, we an interaction with lots of detailes passed back and forth, otherwise it's pretty much impossible to address issues.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Thorsten.

I just looked at the 182 and just like the 172 has Right and Forward views problems.

In your pic, in a real acft you will see the the top of the Cowl and if you look to the right you will see the wing tip.

All these points, Top of cowl, Right and Left Wing tips are important when you try to demonstrate Straight and Level, landings... in real life flying.

See pic below of the views that a pilot sees in real life.

The ATIS problem was related to one acft in particular, Robin? but the C172 did stop when the freqs were changed.

I just looked at creating a Profile for the Vocals speech control app and there are also control keys that work differently in different acft making it difficult to create a good Profile. I may post it later if I consider it sufficiently adequate to distribute.

I will keep at it, it looks like LR development team are beyond the reach of Real World pilots, all the ones I know that tried to help have given up and there is no hope for improvement.

C152LRtxt16.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In your pic, in a real acft you will see the the top of the Cowl and if you look to the right you will see the wing tip.

 

Okay, I get your point.

 

I'm fairly sure though that what you see in a real aircraft depends on how tall you are and how you adjust your seat though, and that you move your head a few cm around its average position to look into various directions outside.

 

In my pic, the top of the cowl is indeed not visible, but I can go to a view where I see it in 0.5 seconds by moving the view just a tad up. Similarly, I can move the view just a bit to look at the wingtips. Views are not meant to be static entities in FG, so for me moving view to see something I want to look at is second nature during simulated flight (for instance one can't operate the Shuttle at all without moving the view, there's some panels which are impossible to reach without twisting and turning in real life).

 

Now, whether the real aircraft is so that you can look at cowl top and wingtips from the very same head position / camera origin I simply don't know (I don't have access to a real Cessna) - if that is the case, the 3d model would be off.

 

(As a side note, I've often noticed that in some fighter jets the default view offers very poor visibility during touchdown - there've been a few discussions about that as well, and generally the answer was that pilots must move their head a bit, once that's done, the problems go away).

 

In any case, I'll forward a link to this discussion to the C-172 / 182 devel teams, they ought to have the aircraft-specific information which I do not and might have further insight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Thorsten.

I've flown with people that were over 6.4 ft and close to 300 lbs that needed a seat belt extensions and still they were able to see the wing tips and the cowl. The Seats are adjustable in the Cessnas and most other acft.

I am bringing these things / issues up to point out things that can be improved and are used in real life training / flying. Wing tips are used in may phases including the ability to fly ground reference maneuvers level flight, aerobatics.. Everything I post has some practical merit to real pilots and instructors and not something that would undermine or demean other people's efforts and accomplishments.

I use the simulators as tool in staying current instructing, and have a Little fun also, but mostly I consider i,t and I use it, as a tool helpful to aviators.

I will likely be posting a Profile for the free, Open source, Speech control application called Vocals later this weekend, but that is getting to be a challenge in using it with FG due to fact that there is no real standard in the key commands used by different acft where some create and use them acft specific, which is also something that should be standardized / applied to all acft and used to perform the same function.

None the less I will post it and there may be some users that may be able to use it / play with it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

WIth regard to the viewpoint issues, I've gotten a response from one of the devel team (Gilberto) - apparently they did (and do) think about the issue and even have a user-adjustible viewpoint that can be saved in the making.

 

I got one of their reference pictures back - see below:

 

maxresdefault.jpg

 

Note that in the picture, the camera position is slightly above the eypoint of the two pilots, and yet the cowl is barely visible - so it's very unlikely that any of the two would actually see it in this situation.

 

So it would appear it's not exactly a simple issue and the available references don't speak a clear and unanimous language - which is why it's entirely possible that there may or may not be issues with the viewpoint or even the 3d model.

 

I quote the invitation by Gilberto

 

f anyone finds reliable data or photographs showing what can be improved then please contact our project as those are always very helpful.

 

Here is the issue tracker of the aircraft devel repository where such questions are discussed - otherwise you can simply write to flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net (if you're not a list member mails will be held for moderation, but anyone can write to the list) and the right people will see the message.

 

 

With regard to key bindings:

 

FG allows to override key bindings based on a hierarchy

 

core application

 

so you don't have to live with anything that's defined. Generally this makes sense and allows the widest set of applications for the sim.

 

For instance the Shuttle has no need of mixture controls, but it has two different control sticks (the translational (THC) and the rotational hand controller RHC)), so I have need of a key to switch between the two modes since most people won't have two sticks ready to use. Which is why I'm happy to take the 'm' key for the job. Usually the person creating the aircraft knows best what tasks need to be done in a hurry and can't rely on finding clickspots in the cockpit, and assihn key bindings reasonably.

 

But a 3-axis sim has different needs than a laptop user, and a person actually might have two physical sticks available, so the user can modify all to his needs.

 

If I remember correctly, there's a general issue with alt+key bindings as they're caught and interpreted by the OS on Mac systems, so they tend to work only under Linux and Windows and are hence discouraged. But (especially for complex craft), real estate on the keyboard is in short supply - which is why bindings which are not useful for the craft at hand are quickly reassigned.

 

The bad news is that unfortunately there's no standard for projects such as yours - the good news is that since ultimately the user-defined bindings are used, everyone can make this work in the end.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi flytv1,

 

I am one of the devlopers of the Cessna 182S in FlightGear, and responsible author of the complete 3d-model, and the view-settings.

 

When you use a search machine with following keywords "Cessna 182T + taxi"; "Cessna 182T + start", "Cessna 182S + taxi"; "Cessna 182S + start" you will get a bunch of mages showing the aircraft from the side with pilot position.

You will notice that the eye level is exactly at the position of the upper side window frame. The wing itself is quite higher, the wingtip due to dihydral of the wings even more.

Conclusion: No chance to see the wingtip!

Examples of images:

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9211410

http://www.skytamer.com/1.2/2.9.3/20090111-1080.jpg

https://www.planespotters.net/photo/688187/hb-cqz-private-cessna-182s-skylane

On the older C182 Models A-P, you sit lower, and can see the wingtips quite good.

 

When you look at the images from above, then you will also notice that the glareshield is quite high. Especially the newer Cessna 182 are known for this, so unless you sit bend over, you are not able to see the nose, or any other parts of the cowling.

 

To get a good landing, you have to flare a bit the aircraft before touchdown. According to many pilot reports and recommendations in pilot forums, the upper edge glareshield should just sit at the horizon when flaring.

So I also checked, that this is correct in the flightsim.

 

At the end there is another, maybe minor thing you have to consider: the turning center points in the sim of the virtual head doesn`t reflect the human anatomy, where the eyes sits above and in front of the center of the turning points.

 

So, everything is correct and tuned according the real aircraft.

 

Many happy landing

HHS

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi HHS and Thorsten.

I appreciate your efforts and what I suggest is that you actually go and sit in C172 with the camera at your eye level. I have yet to see a person that I interfaced with, from 4.8 - 6.4+ not see the top of cowl and the wing tips.

What you are looking at, in that picture, is Not representative of the actual view. The camera is way behind the front seats which presents a false representation of the actual pilots eyepoint view.

I have many thousands of hours in the Cessnas and if you want a true representation go and sit in one. There are very view high wings singles where you cannot see the top of cowl, like the Flight Design, and in all you can see the wing tips.

About the keys. You are correct you can reassign, which is good thing, but if you have a profile done by someone and the user has to go and reassign keys, because some keys work differently in some acft, it is very likely that will quickly get disappointed and not go through that hassle and stop using it. Add to that the short coming of some of the apps, like the Vocals app that does not sent Alt+key and you immediately turn the users off.

I was going to post a Profile and some other information about the Speech control but I was unable to in this Forum, I think due to restrictions have including some files may may be considered executable, and .xml type, but here is a copy of the .doc and key assignments that I integrated in the Profile, it will likely be distorted due to indentations and special characters.

If I find a way to post all the information, including an Vocals.exe file I will post it here.

I think everyone associated with FG a re doing a great job, but like everything else there are some / many things that it can be improved on, and my feedback is intended to help that.

Thank you all, for your effort.

PS I just got an Error message Text too long, I will try to post the.xml in another post below?

 

Commands / Phrases for Vocals Speech control app used in XP11.

To use: Place "win.xpl"(extplane.zip), and "Vocals.exe" (https://www.alth.fr/Vocals/index.php) and Run Vocals.exe, "profiles_xml.vc" included here, in a newly created directory ...X-Plane 11\Resources\plugins\ExtPlane\Vocals, and Start XP11 in windows mode. Make changes to the keys NEW and CHANGE keys listed below, Start Vocals with Run as Administrator, and select XP11 profile, and Application X-System. You can now go back to XP11 and use Full screen.

Some versions of XPlane have it already you can try it and if it works you do not need to add it.

For Flight Gear (FG) you do not need anything, just start FG in window mode, and Start Vocals.

NP-Numeric KP, FG-Flight Gear, XP-XPlane

Note: Dx is Decimal number 1.. OemOpenBrackets IS [ etc.

 

Command Key XP Answer Key FG

Flaps up D1 Flaps up 2 -New FG

Flaps down D2 Flaps down Ctrl 2 -New FG

Brakes toggle B Brakes toggle Off / ON Shft b

Landing gear down D Gear down Sft g

Positive rate gear up U Gear up g

Map toggle M Map toggle NOT IN FG NA

Mixture Off F7 Mixture Off SKIP n (finer) 4x

Mixture Full F8 Mixture Full m (richer) 4x

Carb heat off F9 Carb heat off $ Sft 4? Toggle

Carb heat on F10 Carb heat on SKIP NA???

Trim nose down OemOpenBrackets Nose down PG7 Dec Elev?

Trim nose down a lot OemOpenBrackets Nose down a lot (4x) NP 7 4x

Trim nose up Sft OemOpenBrackets nose up (NEW KEY XP11) NP 1 Inc elev?

Trim nose up a lot Sft OemOpenBrackets nose up a lot (4x) (NEW KEY XP11) NP 1 4x

Reverse trust toggle Sft OemBackslash Reverse trust m Sft Enga revr

Decrease spoilers NA Decrease spoilers j

Increase spoilers NA Increase spoilers k

Toggle spoilers NA Spoilers toggled k Ctrlp

Toggle speed brakes NA Speed brakes toggled B Ctrl

Auto start engine Sft x Engine Started s

Cowl flaps toggle NA Cowl flaps toggle D ??

Cowl flaps open Ctrl o Cowl flaps half open (Add in XP) NA

Cowl flaps closed Ctrl c Cowl flaps half open (Add in XP) NA

G 1000 approach toggle SHFT O Approach toggled (NEW KEY XP11) NA

Autopilot toggle SHFT G Autopilot toggle (NEW KEY XP11) a Ctrl Sft? ALT Lock

Auto pilot approach toggle CTRL A A. Pee Approach toggled G Ctrl

Autopilot heading hold toggle SHFT A Heading hold toggle H Ctrl

Auto pilot altitude on SFT i Altitude hold W Ctrl?

Flight director toggle SFT J Flight director toggle NA

 

3 D cockpit SFT D9 3 D On c

Move head up CTRL K Head up (CHAHGE IN XP KEYS) F6 Sft ??

Move head back Oemcomma 2X Head back NA

Move head forward OemPeriod 2X Head forward NA

Move head down SFT DOWN Eye point down F5 Sft ??

Look ahead W Default view (DEFAULT) 8 NP Sft

Forward view NumPad1 Num pad 1 (View Crtl NumP1) V Ctrl Init viewp

Look up SFT R Look up fast F6 Sft Scrl Dwn

Look down SFT F Look down fast NA

Look left SFT Q 4X Look left (90DEG.) 4 NP Sft

Look right SFT E 4X Look right (90DEG.) 6 NP Sft

Increase ground speed SFT T Increase ground speed NA

Increase ground speed a lot SFT T 2X Increase ground speed a lot NA

Outside view D8 Outside view NA

Cycle views NA Cycle views V

Cockpit View NA Cockpit V Ctrl

Zulu time backwards K 4X Time backwards NA

Zulu time forward L 3X Time forward NA

Zulu time backwards a lot SFT K Time backwards NA

Zulu time forward SFT L Time forward NA

 

Swap Nav 1 CTRL D9 Naav1 swap

Swap Nav 2 CTRL D0 Naav 2 swap NA

Swap Com 1 OemMinus Com 1 swap NA

Swap Com 2 CTRL 0 Swap com 2 (CHAHGE IN XP KEYS) NA

 

Pause P Pause p

Exit Simulator Shft F4 Exit (CHAHGE IN XP KEYS) ESC FG

Testing KeyCode Speech is On sir (TEST) KeyCode

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The FG Profile_xml.vc contents.

Still too long, will post the rest in the next post.

 

Test

FG

Flaps up

Key press

D2

0

None

true

Flaps up

false

Flaps down

Key press

D1

0

None

true

Flaps down

false

Brakes on

Key press

B

0

None

true

Brakes toggle

false

Landing gear down

Key press

G

0

ShiftKey

true

Gear down

false

Positive rate gear up

Key press

G

0

None

true

Gear up

false

Map toggle

Key press

M

0

None

true

Map toggle

false

Mixture Off

Key press

F7

0

None

true

Mixture off

false

Mixture Full

Key press

F8

0

None

true

Mixture full

false

Look up

Key press

R

0

ShiftKey

true

Look up fast

false

Look down

Key press

F6

0

ShiftKey

Key press

F6

0

None

true

Look down fast

false

Look left

Key press

NumPad4

0

ShiftKey

true

Look left

false

Look right

Key press

NumPad6

0

ShiftKey

true

Look right

false

Increase ground speed a lot

Key press

T

0

ShiftKey

Key press

T

0

ShiftKey

true

Increase ground speed a lot

false

Outside view

Key press

D8

0

ShiftKey

true

Out view

false

Brakes toggle

Key press

B

0

ShiftKey

true

Brakes toggle

false

Carb heat off

Key press

D4

0

ShiftKey

true

Carh heat off

false

Carb heat on

Key press

D4

0

ShiftKey

true

Carb heat On

false

Reverse trust toggle

Key press

OemBackslash

0

ShiftKey

true

Reverse trust

false

Swap Nav 1

Key press

D9

0

ControlKey

true

Naav1 swap

false

Swap Nav 2

Key press

D0

0

ControlKey

true

Naav 2 swap

false

Swap Com 1

Key press

OemMinus

0

ControlKey

true

Com 1 swap

false

Look ahead

Key press

NumPad8

0

ShiftKey

true

Default view

false

Zulu time backwards

Key press

K

0

None

Key press

K

0

None

Key press

K

0

None

Key press

K

0

None

true

Time backwards

false

Zulu time forward

Key press

L

0

None

Key press

L

0

None

Key press

L

0

None

true

Time forward

false

Pause

Key press

P

0

None

true

Pause

false

Move head down

Key press

F5

0

ShiftKey

true

Eye point down

false

Move head forward

Key press

X

0

None

Key press

X

0

None

true

Head forward

false

Move head back

Key press

X

0

ShiftKey

Key press

X

0

ShiftKey

true

Head back

false

Swap Com 2

Key press

OemOpenBrackets

0

ControlKey

true

Swap com 2

false

Testing

Key press

KeyCode

0

None

true

Speech is On sir

false

Move head up

Key press

F6

0

ShiftKey

true

Head up

false

Forward view

Key press

V

0

ControlKey

true

Initial view

false

Auto pilot approach toggle

Key press

G

0

ControlKey

true

A. Pee Approach toggled

false

Autopilot heading hold toggle

Key press

F6

0

None

true

Heading hold toggle

false

Flight director toggle

Key press

J

0

ShiftKey

true

Flight director toggle

false

Autopilot toggle

Key press

G

0

ShiftKey

true

Autopilot toggle

false

G 1000 approach toggle

Key press

O

0

ShiftKey

true

Approach toggled

false

3 D Cockpit

Key press

C

0

None

true

3 D On

false

Exit Simulator

Key press

Escape

0

None

true

Exit

false

Trim nose down

Key press

NumPad7

0

None

true

Nose down

false

Trim nose down a lot

Key press

NumPad7

0

None

Key press

NumPad7

0

None

Key press

NumPad7

0

None

Key press

NumPad7

0

None

true

Nose down a lot

false

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The second half of the .xml

 

Trim nose up a lot

Key press

NumPad1

0

None

Key press

NumPad1

0

None

Key press

NumPad1

0

None

Key press

NumPad1

0

None

true

Nose up a lot

false

Trim nose up

Key press

NumPad1

0

None

true

Nose up

false

Zulu time backwards a lot

Key press

K

0

ShiftKey

true

Time back lots

false

Zulu time forward a lot

Key press

L

0

ShiftKey

true

Time forward lots

false

Auto start engine

Key press

S

0

None

Key press

S

0

None

Key press

S

0

None

Key press

S

0

None

Key press

S

0

None

Key press

S

0

None

Key press

S

0

None

Key press

S

0

None

Key press

S

0

None

Key press

S

0

None

Key press

S

0

None

Key press

S

0

None

Key press

S

0

None

Key press

S

0

None

Key press

S

0

None

Key press

S

0

None

Key press

S

0

None

Key press

S

0

None

true

Engine started

false

Auto pilot altitude hold

Key press

W

0

ControlKey

true

Altitude hold is on

false

Increase ground speed

Key press

T

0

ShiftKey

true

Increase ground speed

false

Glance Left

Key press

L

0

ControlKey

true

Left view

false

Glance right

Key press

K

0

ControlKey

true

Right view

false

Cycle Views

Key press

V

0

None

true

Views changed

false

Cockpit View

Key press

V

0

ControlKey

true

Cockpit

false

Decrease spoilers

Key press

J

0

None

true

Decrease spoilers

false

Increase Spoilers

Key press

K

0

None

true

Increase spolers

false

Toggle spolers

Key press

K

0

ControlKey

true

Sppoilers toggled

false

Cowl flaps toggle

Key press

D

0

ShiftKey

true

Cowl flaps toggled

false

Toggle speed brakes

Key press

B

0

ControlKey

true

Speed brakes toggled

false

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@flytv1

I have many thousands of hours in the Cessnas and if you want a true representation go and sit in one.

 

Of the Cessna 172P main developers are at least two known Cessna 172 pilots, and from time to time supported by other Cessna 172 pilots. I`m pretty sure that they already would have corrected the view setting if it would be that wrong.

 

And looking at some images I can see that pilot eye level is still on the upper edge of the side window:

86861_1543273349.jpg

ja4075-skyphoto-cessna-172p-skyhawk-ii_PlanespottersNet_831940_33be6f82a8.jpg

 

From what I can read from different forum topics in the www I can read different things: some say that they are able to see the cowl, others not. It indeed depends on your height. As an example here: https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/33472-c172-engine-cowling-view/:

Some people fly 172's with the cowling in sight, but it's right on the edge really. depending on how you prefer it is how you should have it in the sim. I'm 6' tall (185cm), and have the seat wound pretty much half way, and the cowling is only in sight if i poke my nose up a tad

 

So it depends a lot! of your own height, your seat settings and your preferred likings!

 

But are you aware, that you can change the view position in FlightGear by your own? Like putting the seat high and forward?

To change your view upwards/ downwards, go into view mode by right-click your mouse. Then push/pull the mouse while keeping the middle button pressed.

 

To change your view forward/ backwards, go intow view mode by right-click your mouse. Then push/pull the mouse while keeping the ctr-key pressed.

 

With X/x-key you change the view angle.

 

I get this, when I get my view forward and a bit forward and fov of 92°deg:

C172P.forward.jpg

C172P.wingtip.jpg

 

Would that be what you wish?

 

Btw., that`s the Cessna here in FGFS, which was base for the further developement of this aircraft, flown by one of the developers:C172P.OHCTL.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi HHS.

Yes I am aware of all the Move and View functions, see some of the Speech commands that I set up.

In the case of 182, there is No Cowl object that I can see, from any position.

As a side note, I was not able to get the Close / Open Cowl flaps, im by using the "D" key, or any other, only if I use the Mouse to toggle it.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi.

Here is some more information on the Key codes, and expected functions, that I tried to implement in the Vocal Phrases / speech commands.

The lines starting with = were implemented but they may, or may not work in some / all acft.

 

To further explain the reason of the Cowl, Wing tips, for the people that I fly with, this is the first step part of the internal / cockpit checklist step. Adjust your seat to see all or, if needed, we can add pillows or other objects to accomplish that.

One of the first lessons is to look at the Cowl and Wing tips to get the perspective of Level, Climbs... When the time for Ground reference maneuvers comes, like 8s on pylons, Turns around a point... those points / views become a lot more critical.

 

The (=) functions are implemented, but may not work in all acft.

 

= Ctrl-A (1) Toggle autopilot altitude lock

= Ctrl-B (2) Toggle speedbrake

= Ctrl-G (7) Toggle autopilot glide slope lock

= Ctrl-H (8) Toggle autopilot heading lock

= pCtrl-K (11) Toggle spoiler

Ctrl-R (18) Show radio setting dialog

=Ctrl-V (22) Select initial view (view 0)

= Ctrl-W (23) Toggle autopilot wing leveler

Ctrl-X (24) Reset zoom to default

= Esc (27) Prompt and quit FlightGear

# (35) Toggle Fuel Pump

$ (36) Toggle Carb Heat;

= 1 (49) Decrease elevator trim

= 4 (52) Move aileron left (or adjust AP heading.); SHIFT: Look left

=6 (54) Move aileron right (or adjust AP heading.); SHIFT: Look right

= 7 (55) Increase elevator trim; SHIFT: Look front left

= 8 (56) Decrease elevator or autopilot altitude; SHIFT: Look forward

= B (66) Toggle parking brake on or off

= D (68) Toggle Cowl Flaps;

= G (71) Gear down

= M (77) engage Reverse

P (80) Toggle panel

S (83) Swap panels

= V (86) Scroll in reverse through views

= [ (91) Decrease flaps

= ] (93) Increase flaps

= b (98) Apply all brakes

= c (99) Toggle 3D/2D cockpit

= g (103) Gear Up

= j (106) Decrease spoilers

= k (107) Increase spoilers

= m (109) Mixture richer

= n (110) Propeller Finer

= p (112) Toggle the pause state of the sim

= s (115) Fire Starter on Selected Engine

= v (118) Scroll through views

x (120) Decrease field of view

=F5 (261) SHIFT: Scroll panel down

= F6 (262) Toggle Autopilot Heading Mode; SHIFT: Scroll panel up

F7 (263) SHIFT: Scroll panel left

F8 (264) Cycle fog type; SHIFT: Scroll panel right

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi HHS.

Yes I am aware of all the Move and View functions, see some of the Speech commands that I set up.

Then I don`t understand what`s your problem with the view? You have to adjust your view position aka seat position everytime you take a new car, aircraft, bicycle, whatever in real live.....

 

As a side note, I was not able to get the Close / Open Cowl flaps, im by using the "D" key, or any other, only if I use the Mouse to toggle it.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

 

Why do you think, "D"-key toggles Cowl Flaps?

 

We didn`t set any key-command for the cowl flaps, but maybe it would make sense.

If you set a key-binding, you need the correct property. For the cowl-flaps it is:

/controls/engines/engine/cowl-flaps-norm

and of course the correct command-

property-adjust

would be make most sense here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

To further explain the reason of the Cowl, Wing tips, for the people that I fly with, this is the first step part of the internal / cockpit checklist step. Adjust your seat to see all or, if needed, we can add pillows or other objects to accomplish that.

One of the first lessons is to look at the Cowl and Wing tips to get the perspective of Level, Climbs... When the time for Ground reference maneuvers comes, like 8s on pylons, Turns around a point... those points / views become a lot more critical.

 

Thorsten Renk has many flighthours (don`t know how much) as glider pilot. So I am pretty sure, that he knows how are airplane is flown.

 

Myself has only some flightminutes (I don`t think it counts to an hour, and was never be really officially documented) on a two-seat, high wing, single-engine ultralight. But the first lesson I learned on this flight was looking at the cowl to keep the aircraft level and on the same altitude. So even I as a non-pilot knows how important the right view position is.

 

Developing an Open-Source flight simulator doesn`t make us to dummies.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the case of 182, there is No Cowl object that I can see, from any position.

 

Which variant?

 

The one HHS created and of which I posted a picture sure has a complete 3d model and if you move the view, you see the cowl, that I checked.

 

The other one from which your picture is I don't know, I've never seen that plane, it looks fairly incomplete to begin with, so for all I know the external 3d model could be faulty.

 

The (=) functions are implemented, but may not work in all acft.

 

Well, they're just conventions. Not all craft have a propeller or flaps or a retractable gear (a helicopter comes to mind...), so naturally such bindings don't work.

 

I'm fairly sure that gear or flaps are very standardized across all FG planes which have those.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi HHS and Thorsten.

@ HHS

By no means do I think >>Developing an Open-Source flight simulator doesn`t make us to dummies.....

I've been, and still am, on projects that are open source, created my own acft, pilot since 1976, and wrote, and used, aviation related simulators from that time forward. The first sim I used was on a mainframe used for VOR/ ADF navigation that used text characters to draw figures and display data, and many others, just about everyone since, including full motion C130 simulator.

My goal, reason, for posting is to try to help, and impart some of my knowledge to others, and in the process, my selfish reason is, to benefit from implementations, that I know it will improve the experience for every body else.

 

@Thorsten.

I am not sure which version do I have, or how many exist, see some information below on some extracts from some of the files.

>>Well, they're just conventions. Not all craft have a propeller or flaps or a retractable gear..

You are correct, some acft do not have some systems like cowl flaps.... but the standard, some constant functions should apply to all, as it pertains to the key functions and response, you may or may not use them in another. Again the example with this 182 is the "D" which is listed "Toggle Cowl Flaps;" in the "map.pdf" file as:

 

D (68) j7w: Decrease Hydraulic Torque Converter Pressure; B-1B: Decrease sweep;

hurricaneIIb|seafireIIIc|spitfireIIa: Door Fold Down; sr71-yasim: Parachut;

c130|c130-jsbsim|do335-yasim|h4-hercules-jsbsim|h4-hercules-yasim|me262|

|me262-yasim|starship-yasim|uh60: Passenger door; as350|bell206|bo105|c150: Select

previous door; CanberraBI8|vulcanb2: Toggle Bomb Bay Doors; f4u: Toggle Cowl Flaps;

ju52: Toggle Front-Door; bf109g: Toggle Master Arm off; mosquito: Toggle Radiator Shutters;

beaufighter: Toggle Rear-Door; an2: Toggle door

 

...should work in all acft that have cowl flaps. In this particular case I was not able find a joystick assignment that worked either, just using the Mouse was the only way to move it. Having 10 functions assigned to the same key can be very confusing.

 

Again, I think you are reading more into what I am trying to convey than what my intention is. I am just trying to help and I know that at some point you learn, and find out on your own, that what I am telling you now is correct, but I hope to help along imparting some of my knowledge.

 

README File

 

Welcome to the FlightGear Flight Simulator project.

===================================================

 

The primary web page for this project is: http://www.flightgear.org

 

For basic installation instructions see the "INSTALL" file.

 

 

Thanks File

A very special thanks is due to the following people and groups.

 

Note: as hard as we've tried, it is impossible to perfectly maintain

this file. If you are aware of someone who you think should be

included here, PLEASE let me know. Projects like this are made

possible only by the help and hard work of others. I want to properly

credit everyone who has contributed to this project.

 

Thorsten Brehm

Thorsten provided the TCAS system and fixed an uncountable number of

bugs, closed memory leaks and helps creating new releases.

 

 

THIS DOCUMENT WAS INITIALLY WRITTEN BY:

Curt L. Olson

 

Updates 2015-06-15 by Thorsten Renk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi.

Here are a couple of more pics that may help identify the acft.?

Can you post the URL where I can get the one you are discussing, and post a pic of the Instrument panel and Top of cowl?

Here is some info from the C182S files themselves

 

README file

 

Cessna 182S

===========

 

A high detailed, realistic version of the Cessna 182S aircraft for FlightGear. Can be flown according real pilot manual.

 

 

 

For the repository containing the .xcf and .svg files for the textures and liveries, visit: https://github.com/HHS81/c182-Textures/

 

 

AUTHORS File

This aircraft was modified and updated in a joint effort by the following people:

 

* Heiko Schulz (hhs81): 3D model, fdm, textures, bug tracking, testing

Email: heiko.h.schulz@gmx.net

 

* Gilberto Agostinho (gsagostinho): textures, xml, bug tracking, testing

Email: gilbertohasnofb@gmail.com

 

 

 

 

Thanks.

 

FG-C182S-out.jpgFG-C182Cpit.jpg

Edited by flytv1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi.

OK, I think I found something that looks almost right / correct.

I have no idea who designed it, see the contents of the readme.md below, but the Right, Left views are correct, The cowl could be better but it looks like it has some, maybe a real tiny person flies in it? Just a joke, keep up the good work.

By the way in that acft, the Mixture does not work when assigned to joystick and other controls, Mose only. I never use the mouse and I do not think real world pilots like it, at least the ones I know, they all have Rudder pedals, ant the minimum a Joystick.

 

Cessna 150L for Flightgear

==========================

 

![splash](thumbnail.jpg)

 

FG-150Left.jpgFG-150Rt.jpgFG-150Frnt.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here are a couple of more pics that may help identify the acft.?

 

Okay, that's the one I mean.

 

And you say you can not see the cowl if you adjust your seat (aka move the camera origin a few cm upward)?:confused: What do you see then if you look forward? Nothing?

 

...should work in all acft that have cowl flaps. In this particular case I was not able find a joystick assignment that worked either

 

Again confused :confused: You were unable to define a joystick binding for cowl flaps? What was the obstacle?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Thorsten.

I appreciate your time and effort in trying to get some of these issues resolved, it may help others in the future also.

What I see when I look forward is the second pic in post 21. If I move up the view inside changes, the head moves up towards the ceiling, but the view outside does not, I cannot see the cowl, or any other changes outside.

 

About the Cowl Flaps, I found that only the Mouse can actuate that, If I use "D", as stated in the Maps.pdf, no action is performed, including Shift, Control, "d" none of of those and I tried other keys also, it would appear that no keyboard input will trigger that action. In the Joystick, there is No assignment that I can select to trigger the Cowl flaps, it's missing all together.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@flytv1:

??

Can you make a screenshot when you shifted the view towards the ceiling? I still don`t understand what you exactly mean?

 

As Thorsten and i already said: There is no key action assigned to the cowl flaps. And if you would exactly read the map.pdf, then you would understand that only the mentioned aircraft uses the d-key for the cowl.

And for joystick action you don`t need to assign any key. Instead assign the property to the joystick!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

Announcements


×
×
  • Create New...