Goatman24 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Having issues with the spoiler/speed brake that I haven't had before. I re-installed my system and am just now starting to fly jets again. The problem I'm having is that when I start on the runway with a new flight the spoilers are extended and there doesn't seem to be any way to close them and not have them pop up again. I have used the shift-/ to turn off the arming but it doesn't seem to do anything. If I am able to get them down as soon as I throttle-up, they come up again. It's as if I can't shut off the arming of the spoilers. If I go into the virtual cockpit and look down at the spoiler controls, I'm not able to adjust them at all from that window. If I grab the handle to move it, the little hand looks like it's grabbing the handle but doesn't do anything. It's as if it's locked. I'm currently using the 737 stock plane but it also has the same issues with other planes. There doesn't seem to be a light or switch that gets pulled when choosing armed or unarmed but from the way it reacts, it's always armed. I'm beginning to think it might be a flaw in my fsx installation. If anyone has any ideas to try out I would appreciate it. Thanks I was born on the North Coast, where they coined the phrase that they still call Rock-n-Roll! Asus Maximus VII mb, Wind7 64-240 GB SSD-8GB RAM-IntelCore i7-4790k Haswell Quad Core 4 ghz-GTX 1060-TH2G-2-Saitek Yokes, -2-CH pedals-GFTQ6 throt, 49" Samsung Monitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatman24 Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 I've been working on this issue for two days and of course right after I post this problem, it gets solved. (I think) I thought I had deleted my FSUIPC setting for my TQ6 but it was set for being armed. :o:o:o:o I was born on the North Coast, where they coined the phrase that they still call Rock-n-Roll! Asus Maximus VII mb, Wind7 64-240 GB SSD-8GB RAM-IntelCore i7-4790k Haswell Quad Core 4 ghz-GTX 1060-TH2G-2-Saitek Yokes, -2-CH pedals-GFTQ6 throt, 49" Samsung Monitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvarn Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Here's the default behavior of the spoiler system in FS: 1) If the spoilers are armed while the engines are idle and wheels on the ground, they will deploy. This is because wheel contact with the ground AND throttle idle is the trigger sequence FS looks for to deploy the spoilers. 2) If when deployed, you ADVANCE the throttles, the spoilers will retract because you have removed ONE of the triggers necessary for auto deployment. It's that simple. "I'm beginning to think it might be a flaw in my fsx installation" Nope. This is the way the sim works. Arm your spoilers in the air and not on the ground and idle the engines as soon as you touch down and the you'll see the spoiler system work as designed. There are a few exceptions when the model designer creates custom gauges to modify this behavior, but from your description, you are seeing default behavior and all is well. You just need to understand it and cooperate with it. Some people can get hung up by creating saved/default flights while their spoilers are armed and the results confuses them. All that's needed is to save a new default flight with the spoilers retracted and all will be well. Start your flight, deploy the spoilers, retract the spoilers, save the flight. -Pv- 2 carrot salad, 10.41 liter bucket, electric doorbell, 17 inch fan, 12X14, 85 Dbm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScatterbrainKid Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I simply hit the '/' key to deploy the spoilers manually, mainly because i don't know what that 'arming' business means anyway..;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrzippy Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I simply hit the '/' key to deploy the spoilers manually, mainly because i don't know what that 'arming' business means anyway..;) When the spoilers are in the "armed" position and when your wheels touch down for landing and your throttles are at idle, your spoilers automatically deploy. No need to hit /. Still thinking about a new flightsim only computer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvarn Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 The idea of "arming" is a simple one. It comes from the military concept of "arming" a weapon. If a weapon which has automatic fire features is not armed, it will not fire even when you pull the trigger. This is to prevent the weapon from firing when it should not and in the case of a tracking missile, will fire automatically when the proper conditions are met including a lock and pulling the trigger. Arming the spoilers is so they will deploy automatically. This is VERY convenient. Every time you can use automation to take the work load off the pilot (while in an airliner is very helpful because you are the only crew member doing everything a two or three crew normally does) this frees you up to do other things which are not automated and require your undivided attention. This includes being able to look around more and gain situational awareness because it's one thing you don't have to worry about (not to mention pressing the wrongs keys or stick combo in the "heat" of battle.) In the intense world of flying online with ATC and sometimes extreme weather, skills like this are crucial for control and confidence. An auto-deploy of the spoiler will usually be faster than your manual one and so you will stop sooner or be able to turn off onto shorter taxiway, or in bad weather landing unusually heavy, avoid an over-run. An "Armed" spoiler will deploy automatically when: 1) The main wheels make contact with the ground AND 2) The throttles are lowered to idle or less (reversers.) If you do this arming on the ground accidentally, it's no big deal. When you advance the throttles, the spoilers will retract (as they should) and stay that way until: 1) You next deploy them manually. 2) You arm in flight and land using the above spoiler trigger conditions. It's common practice for me after landing and an autopoiler deploy to give my throttles a slight nudge (which you might do anyway after holding short on a runway crossing for example) then idle again. This will "auto-retract" an auto-deployed spoiler. If your spoiler was manually deployed, they will stay deployed until you manually retract them or arm them. -Pv- 2 carrot salad, 10.41 liter bucket, electric doorbell, 17 inch fan, 12X14, 85 Dbm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il88pp Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Autospoiler is a life saver in case you need to go around after touchdown. As soon as you advance the throttle for go-around the spoiler will retract. Extending the spoiler manually after touchdown, panicking, and forgetting to retract it on go-around, means you don't get airborne. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScatterbrainKid Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Thanks guys, auto-arming sounds fine if we're willing to trust the thing to work properly..;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvarn Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 " trust the thing to work properly" It always does if the plane is not broken or you do not have a mapping conflict or you do not create a saved default startup with a whacked out config, or you are not fully understanding how it works and not operating it correctly. I'm basically testing planes I'm working on all day long and I may land anywhere from 10-500 times a day and the speedbrake never fails for me. It's not that I do or do not trust the speedbrake, it's that I trust myself. -Pv- 2 carrot salad, 10.41 liter bucket, electric doorbell, 17 inch fan, 12X14, 85 Dbm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatman24 Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 Okay guys, all that you say makes perfect sense but, I can't seem to keep the spoilers from being armed. If I hit "Shift+/" the spoilers seem to come back up. I literally have to fly with the dash board in front of me so I can see the lights come on when they flip up. Not exactly an easy way to fly. I found that if I jiggle the spoiler axis they usually go back down until I adjust the throttle axis again. There doesn't seem to be a way to completely shut them off. I'll give it a go again tonight and see if I can figure out what's going on. I even changed the keyboard key from "Shift+/" to something else thinking some of my equipment may be sending that sequence by accident. Mitch I was born on the North Coast, where they coined the phrase that they still call Rock-n-Roll! Asus Maximus VII mb, Wind7 64-240 GB SSD-8GB RAM-IntelCore i7-4790k Haswell Quad Core 4 ghz-GTX 1060-TH2G-2-Saitek Yokes, -2-CH pedals-GFTQ6 throt, 49" Samsung Monitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainTower Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Okay guys, all that you say makes perfect sense but, I can't seem to keep the spoilers from being armed. If I hit "Shift+/" the spoilers seem to come back up. I literally have to fly with the dash board in front of me so I can see the lights come on when they flip up. Not exactly an easy way to fly. I found that if I jiggle the spoiler axis they usually go back down until I adjust the throttle axis again. There doesn't seem to be a way to completely shut them off. I'll give it a go again tonight and see if I can figure out what's going on. I even changed the keyboard key from "Shift+/" to something else thinking some of my equipment may be sending that sequence by accident. Mitch You would never hit shift + / while on the ground. That keystroke is for arming the spoilers which you would only be doing while still airborne. Thank you, Tim ASUS GL 12CX; Intel i7 9700K 3.6 GHz; 16 GB GDDR8 Memory; System BUS 2660 MHz; 8 MB L3 cache; NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 2080 8GB GDDR6; Windows 10 Home x64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScatterbrainKid Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 ..I'm currently using the 737 stock plane but it also has the same issues with other planes.....I'll give it a go again tonight and see if I can figure out what's going on. I even changed the keyboard key from "Shift+/" to something else thinking some of my equipment may be sending that sequence by accident... Just an idea but try deleting the spoiler arming keys completely, leaving the 'key assignment' blank and see what happens when you fly again. Maybe blanking it will wipe the slate clean of any clutter that may have got in there, and you can re-assign fresh keys later. Also, are you saying the issue happens with ALL the stock FSX jets, or just with the 737 and a few others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatman24 Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 You would never hit shift + / while on the ground. That keystroke is for arming the spoilers which you would only be doing while still airborne. Gotcha, but as soon as I start a brand new flight and I'm on the runway, in like 5-10 seconds the spoilers go up. Just an idea but try deleting the spoiler arming keys completely, leaving the 'key assignment' blank and see what happens when you fly again. Maybe blanking it will wipe the slate clean of any clutter that may have got in there, and you can re-assign fresh keys later. Also, are you saying the issue happens with ALL the stock FSX jets, or just with the 737 and a few others? I deleted the keys for arming and setting the spoilers then re-booted with the same results. I have the issue with the Airbus A321, Boeing 737 and Boeing 747. Haven't tried any others. With the spoiler keys gone I don't think I can get the spoilers down in order to take off. They don't look to have any affect from throttle or my spoiler axis. Mitch I was born on the North Coast, where they coined the phrase that they still call Rock-n-Roll! Asus Maximus VII mb, Wind7 64-240 GB SSD-8GB RAM-IntelCore i7-4790k Haswell Quad Core 4 ghz-GTX 1060-TH2G-2-Saitek Yokes, -2-CH pedals-GFTQ6 throt, 49" Samsung Monitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScatterbrainKid Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Hey Goatman, as far as I can tell, you've only used shift+/, so try the standard / key on its own to close the spoilers on the ground. The guys in this thread- https://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/archive/index.php/t-255949.html discussed it, and seem to be saying don't arm them until you're ready to land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvarn Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 It has been suggested earlier in this thread that you should make a new saved default flight with the spoilers off. 1) Load up your default flight. 2) If spoilers are deployed with the engines going, tap / to lower them. They will not lower immediately because there is a deploy/retract time built into them. 3) Confirm the spoilers are retracted and save the flight. Make it your default flight. Problem gone. If you are pressing shift-/ on the ground, you should not. This will deploy the spoilers if you are stopped and engines idle. The good news is though then deployed this way, they will retract automatically on throttle up so you are not prevented from taking off. If you are tapping the / key while stopped on the ground, the spoilers will deploy and STAY THAT WAY preventing you from taking off. If the problem persists, you should be looking at your controller and FS key mappings. You may be deploying the speedbrakes unintentionally with other presses or JS buttons you are pressing. One way to check this is the do a test take off in external view or create a small external view window in a corner so you can watch your panel AND the external plane at the same time. -Pv- 2 carrot salad, 10.41 liter bucket, electric doorbell, 17 inch fan, 12X14, 85 Dbm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il88pp Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 You could also restore the default flight (ultralight over friday harbor). with fsx shut down, open the fsx.cfg file. look for the [uSERINTERFACE] -section. find the line: Situation="name of your saved default flight" change that to: Situation= your default flight will be back to ultralight over friday harbor. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatman24 Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 Hey Goatman, as far as I can tell, you've only used shift+/, so try the standard / key on its own to close the spoilers on the ground. Okay, I was able to get them down. Then when I throttle up, they popped up again until I hit it again. So I have to keep hitting the / key or jiggle the spoiler axis on my TQ6. 1) Load up your default flight. 2) If spoilers are deployed with the engines going, tap / to lower them. They will not lower immediately because there is a deploy/retract time built into them. 3) Confirm the spoilers are retracted and save the flight. Make it your default flight. Sorry Pv, I didn't mean to disregard your earlier post. I did as you stated, rebooted for good measure and started up my default flight with the same results. It's as if there is something with the throttle levers causing the spoilers to arm. I think I will try a singe engine jet and see if I get the same results. Bingo!!!!!!! I just verified the TQ6 settings in the FUICP and found that Throttle #1 was somehow set for spoiler. Very strange because I don't know how I was able to take off with only the Throttle #2 without it trying to turn left. Still get the armed spoiler at start up with the default but at least I can shut it off without it resetting every time I touch the throttle. I bet if I re-save it to a new default it'll be just fine. I'll do more experimenting and try to get that on my own. il88pp, good information to know. Thank you. Thanks a bunch for the help guys. Now you see why I fly simulators and not the real thing. Mitch I was born on the North Coast, where they coined the phrase that they still call Rock-n-Roll! Asus Maximus VII mb, Wind7 64-240 GB SSD-8GB RAM-IntelCore i7-4790k Haswell Quad Core 4 ghz-GTX 1060-TH2G-2-Saitek Yokes, -2-CH pedals-GFTQ6 throt, 49" Samsung Monitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvarn Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Check ALL your key mapping assignments in FSUIPC AND FSX (keys) AND your controller mapping software. Look for conflicts or "/" "shift-/" where there should not be. This is a default action in FS so you should not need to assign anything. NEXT: Fly the default FSX 737-800 and confirm the spoiler works as designed in the sim (as we have described above. If it works properly, it's the model you are using where it is broken. What you do about that depends... -Pv- 2 carrot salad, 10.41 liter bucket, electric doorbell, 17 inch fan, 12X14, 85 Dbm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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