Will a video card make any difference?

[RodTod]

To get back to the OP's post by RodTod, yes a video card can improve things a lot. What many have been talking about is frame rates, and noticing that not much changes in this between FSX and P3D. This is just one minor requirement of a video card.

 

A quick rundown on FSX and P3D 3.1, as this is my latest and I have been with P3D since v2.5. Firstly FSX is 10 year old, stagnant unfinished and riddled with bugs code, locked with DX9 fully, with a DX10 preview, and remember it's a preview, nowhere near full DX10. That's why many modellers warn of their product not working with DX10 preview, and models turning white, scenery popping etc. YES many will respond and say this can be "patched", it's more kludged into the old code and is unstable overall, as the bulk of the code is not edited to support DX10 properly. Then there is the issue of the 32bit limited 4GB VAS (Virtual Address Space), of which FSX (and P3D up to version 2.5) suffers badly with it's OOM's (Out of Memory) or CTD's (Crash To Desktop). And this is more prevalent and a reality today with high end heavy polygon scenery and aircraft, than 10 years ago. My FSX OOM's or CTD's in less that three hours of flight depending on where I am flying, what I am flying and the scenery loaded over the flight path. I have run P3D over the same scenery, with the same aircraft for three solid days and no issues, I had to artificially up my fuel all the time but I did this as a test

 

P3D since v3.0 has resolved the 4GB VAS, is running on full DX11, and will soon be a 64bit system with DX12 which is supported by Windows 10. So a new video card supports all of these new technologies such as DX12, some newer cards are already beta testing DX12. And today there is no differentiation between using nVidia and ATi/AMD graphics cards to run P3D, as it was for FSX.

 

The reason nVidia was popular was because their drivers supported FSX's shader model 2 longer than ATi/AMD, so in layman's terms, the latter ran slower trying to convert SM3 to SM2. But there was an unofficial kludge patch to up FSX to shader model 3, making the performance of both brands almost equal in FSX. And this now persists through to P3D. So you can now shop for the best performing card ignoring that you can only buy a nvidia replacement. I use AMD and I am far happier with it over the nVidia's I had, 4 and 5 screen support for AMD, only three screen support recently for nVidia, is one of the differences. I have tested 7 screens on my AMD and onboard Intel video (and Intel have just released a board/chipset supporting four screens onboard), with a reasonable 15FPS in P3D. And P3D has new features missing in FSX, that of tesselation and bathymetry to name two, which modern video cards take full advantage of.

 

My current three screen setup in P3D gives me 30FPS, locked (unlocked it goes as high as 45FPS) with Active Sky Next running, FTX Orbx Global Base and Vector installed, and using REX 4 HD Texture Direct with Soft clouds, and the above mentioned tesselation and bathymetry enabled. And using heavy polygon aircraft such as PMDG, or military types such as the Just Flight's Panavia Tornado or English Electric Canberra etc.

 

And finally P3D is far more frame friendly due to it being balanced now between a CPU and GPU, and leans more now to GPU than CPU support, not just CPU as in FSX. Many of the posters above have quoted non-factually and incorrectly about P3D, with long dead old technologies. These have all been brought right up to date in P3D, especially since version 3.0. And as Lockheed Martin acknowledge more and more home users (their EULA does not cater for home entertainment users, like FSX, only for training and student academic purposes) using their product both in the affordable Academic model or the more high end training school Professional version, they are softening to the support of these users. To see these changes look up the updates for the DodoSim Bell for P3D, being done by LM support for home users.

 

Sorry for the long technical explanation, but many old non-truths had to be corrected, and explained as to why a newer up to date video card is a good purchase, and becoming a must. Most old cards (your Geforce 650 only supports DX10, so you will not benefit using it in P3D with DX11, it will fall back to the lesser DX10) only support DX9 and maybe DX10, so one loses out to full DX11 and future DX12 support and features, and these technologies will show with the correct card used.

 

Cheers

Andrew Brown

 

Andrew, I noticed you are using Windows 10. I have resisted going to it. What can you tell me about it? My concern is other programs I use not working, eventually being forced to subscribe etc.

[alverthein]

I am not a techie and don't understand anything much that is going on or being said here but in my case I try to follow what seems to be good advice by the moderators and a limited few others that I have followed for years...I have been with FSX since it came out and it used to crash all the time...I had a computer built for gaming especially FSX...I cannot remember when it crashed last.....and I think I did something on the keyboard for that to happen and I fly long distances...in the 777..... I have been with P3D since v2.5 and now 3.1....with updates...I have never tweaked it and it has NEVER crashed on me...so I am a happy simmer...and I will keep FSX forever....like Rupert said...my bellybutton is not like a lot of folks who are simmers too.al v

[Rupert]

Rupert -

 

 

 

 

 

Grown men (and women) playing with computers? WE ALL need a shrink. :)

 

Vic

 

Hey Vic, no harm & no foul! As to needing a shrink, my shrink is the one who suggested I start simming in the first place. So I could fly over Vietnam, not be shot at, & see they survived people like me.

 

Simming and playing my horns keep me stable. Not sane mind you, stable.

[vgbaron]

RodTod - I have a p3d system set up with W10 and, so far, have not had any issues. I am using w10pro. It's a little different but not total confusion. All the programs I normally use run fine.

 

My only issue, as with a lot of people, is the forced updates and the privacy issues. The people who make Spybot have made a free tool that will monitor the system and intercept any "snooping". I just wonder when an update will "break" P3D.

 

My main system is still W7 and will remain so as long as possible.

 

There are a lot of people running w10 and flight sims with no problem, IMHO I feel like it's a time bomb waiting to go off with the auto updates.

 

Vic

[Rupert]

Vic,

 

+1 on your post about Windows 10! And I won't use FSX Steam for that reason either. alaskancrab calls me a tin hat because I have those concerns. I'm an old Marine, I've been called a lot worse!

[vgbaron]

I hope I'm wrong but I wouldn't commit my main system to W10 without a solid way to go back. From their various moves lately, I get the impression that MS isn't quite sure which direction to take W10.

 

No matter, unless they give the user the option to completely disable auto updates, I'm not going to be a big fan.

 

Vic

[RodTod]

Today I tried to do the update.Started this morning, it is now 10:30 PM, and I have made zero progress. You have to delete files in some places, delete some in other places if you have Orbx. Delete files you downloaded before you deleted the files so you could download, Update, re-date......get kicked out, get kicked in, restart, quit, turn on and turn off and in the end....start all over again. This Windows 10 free update is a flaming mess. I think I will stay with what works. Nice job again Microsoft. ( I mean that in the most sarcastic of ways )

[JSkorna]

Wonder how so many of us updated with no problems? It might not be an issue with Microsoft.

[Screwbottle]

Today I tried to do the update.Started this morning, it is now 10:30 PM, and I have made zero progress. You have to delete files in some places, delete some in other places if you have Orbx. Delete files you downloaded before you deleted the files so you could download, Update, re-date......get kicked out, get kicked in, restart, quit, turn on and turn off and in the end....start all over again. This Windows 10 free update is a flaming mess. I think I will stay with what works. Nice job again Microsoft. ( I mean that in the most sarcastic of ways )

 

Hi RodTod, in reply to your other post to me about Windows 10 and other apps/programs/simulators, in a line NO ISSUES. I have three computers, two desktops running general work and simulators, one used for mobility to two local virtual aviation clubs I belong to, and then my laptop. All upgraded to W10 with now the latest big patch, the 1511 release.

 

Agreed in your post above in that at first the W10 upgrade was a friggin' nightmare, not so much in it doing the upgrade once it had successfully downloaded, but to get it to download and run without multiple error codes, of which I have created a small book about them and how to resolve. Since the 1511 upgrade that came into effect fully at the end of November last year and through December, it has got better now. My whole issue is with MS in trying to handle all those 100's of millions of people downloading the upgrade, and one only getting it if one used a valid O/S to start the process. Surely they could have used the registered users keys to allow one to download an ISO legally. Anyway since December I've noticed that it is a lot smoother in getting a working download without errors, and upgrading. I have a 4Mb/s - 512KB/s line speed ADSL, with a steady download of between 400 to 450KB/s, so desktops tend to do all of this in about 3 to 4 hours, 3 hours to do the full download, then another hour to go through about 9 reboots before one has the first responsive screen. Laptops take longer, up to 6 hours I have experienced on the very slow ones, apparently to do with their more complex power management and other systems over desktops. Note though as of last week February the 1st, the W10 upgrade has changed from a reserved self choice and time upgrade, to a recommended upgrade, which can start without the users intervention or knowledge at first. Be very aware of this now when one clicks on Windows updates!!!!!!!!!!! in W7, W8/8.1.

 

I am successfully running in Windows 10, FS Combat Simulator 3 (very old), FS9 with 9.1 patch, FSX Acceleration with shader model 3 patch and many payware addons, P3D 3.1 with many payware addons and FS9/FSX aircraft, Rise of Flight WWI Combat Sim, FlightGear 3.4, DCS World and addon aircraft, X-Plane 10.41 and PhoenixRC (Radio Control training simulator). It's all about correct preparation and cleaning of one's system when doing the upgrade, make sure you have all of the latest MS up to dates installed before proceeding with the W10 upgrade.

 

And to respond to those with the privacy issues with W10, ALL can be locked down very simply. Again I find the human behavior of "go with the flow" and do no reading, from the point I mentioned above of one being at the first responsive screen, we all just click next next next..... etc ad infinitum. Much to the glee I am sure of the Windows software engineers as they see this human nature thing in action. And with this we have allowed many of their background addons to now "phone home". They know this behavior well. So when one is doing the upgrade, turn every option off in the five (I think, don't notice anymore) startup screens and already you have locked out the apps that are responsible for this published privacy issues. Then go and uninstall every single one of the MS addon apps supplied if you know you will never use them, and want your own choices. Some don't have an upfront installer, go and surf the web of many who successfully do this using Windows Powershell.

 

This also applies to those ridiculous and cartooney tiles that MS insists on keeping from 8.0 and 8.1, in the Start menu now. Better still install the brilliant and free Classic Shell, to be rid of this not so workflow friendly MS Start in the first place.

 

Regards

Andrew Brown

[Rupert]

Screwbottle,

 

Thanks for a very comprehensive article on how to correctly install a Windows 10 upgrade! And I agree they're counting on us leaving all the side doors they included in the program open for their use.

 

However, I have 7 presently on three different computers & it works fine with P3D & FSX. If I ever buy a machine with 10 on it, I'll adapt & try my best to keep them out. But I have seen no advantage to "upgrade" what I have already that works really well.

[Screwbottle]

Screwbottle,

 

Thanks for a very comprehensive article on how to correctly install a Windows 10 upgrade! And I agree they're counting on us leaving all the side doors they included in the program open for their use.

 

However, I have 7 presently on three different computers & it works fine with P3D & FSX. If I ever buy a machine with 10 on it, I'll adapt & try my best to keep them out. But I have seen no advantage to "upgrade" what I have already that works really well.

 

Hi Rupert, you're welcome, but there are significant changes, more under the hood, and then some nice eye candy desktop, but as usual since W8 and as I indicated, a not too friendly Start menu. Why oh why does MS think that we now have to find our apps and their accompanying readme's and other support files etc, in an alphabetical order, what was wrong with the group folders!!!!. So thankfully we have Classic Shell to the rescue. In me using W10 now since October, I can "feel" for want of a word for intangible, the differences, and use. I generally do not like anything Micro$oft, and am a 'nix man going back to the mid '70's, but I accept it's mainstream for the majority of world users, in PC and laptop, and runs the SIM's we all love. So with that, I liked W7 (start of real world 64bit to access more memory), hated 8 and not much more with 8.1, and had many issues in getting the mentioned SIM's in my post above to settle down in W8.1.

 

Yet I've found that W10 seems to have the best of XP, W7 and W8.1 (did this have any good in it) with an up to date more modern code, so "maybe" credit can be given sparingly to MS. I try not to bash, as I have to use them as well, if the mentioned SIM's ever ported over to Linux, that's me out of here. But I live in a real world with real content whether I like it or not. I am a technical officer for two Virtual Aviation clubs I am a member of locally, and we are swinging over to W10, and eventually P3D from FSX. Taking advantage of the "freebie" (is it really, just some sarcasm) ending on the 29th of July this year. We meet twice a month face to face on local servers LAN party type scenario, with full ATC and voice etc, and we have had a very successful run with our members, 18 of us currently in one club running W10 FSX or P3D fine in multiplayer mode.

 

So not too much of an adaption to using W10, from W7, less if you are used to W8/8.1, just some quirkiness with the Start menu mentioned, but easily fixed.

 

And as you have seen and I mentioned, an up to date O/S with good housekeeping tools is the key I am finding. As to these tools, I use Piriform's freeware CCleaner, Macecraft's payware Powertools (the best and personally the only registry and system cleaner), and Steven Gould's Cleanup, still works with no issues or damage in W7 W8/8.1 and W10. Without getting into another argument I recently had on other forums, over defragmenting mechanical hard drives (not to be done to SSD'd EVER), I do, and use a payware tool called Ultimate Defrag, a powerhouse of a tool if used correctly, from DiskTrix. Another tool I am careful to promote, as it's not for the fainthearted, and needs careful reading and application only in extreme of cases with failing W10 upgrades, is Windows Repair (All in One) by Tweaking.com. This latter if you do use it correctly fixes many issues in getting a successful W10 upgrade. But I do add CAUTION to users to read each page/tab carefully before applying anything, and follow the recommendation to boot in safe mode, it has a button/facility to do it for you. The support at Tweaking.com are also great in helping with results from this tool, once you register with them (free).

 

Cheers

Andrew