Just Flight And The SecDrv Issue

Not sure if this has been posted before but can't find the thread so fresh item.

 

In a spate of renewed enthusiasm for FSX decided last night to reinstall all my Just Flight add-ons from their DVD's. Oh dear, soon ran up against the Windows 10/SecDRV issue which means the installer aborts. JT support page shrugs its shoulders that there is no fix to this issue and on M$ own support forum the issue when raised is studiously ignored. I tried a batch file found lurking on another forum to push SecDRV into working but Win10 not having it.

 

So a combination of Just Flight with their arcane copy protection system and M$ with their arrogant intransigence over what they feel I should run on my PC have left me with over £200 of now useless software sitting on the shelf. I've opened a ticket with Just Flight asking for a remedy - either exchange my DVD's for ones without SecDRV or offer the option of digital downloads.

 

Has anyone else been in touch with Just Flight over this issue and what was the outcome.

 

It's not as if I can readily sell the discs on via Ebay due to the incompatibility which also affects Win 7 and Win 8 albeit JT have provided a tool to assist with the install on the older systems.

With the Windows 7 patch to remove Secdrv, there is a option to temporary disable it through the Command Prompt. I use it when running FS9. Does Windows 10 have that option?

 

I also had a issue long ago with a Just Flight CD-ROM product. Think it may have been Traffic 2005 for FS9. They provided the download version free of charge and it solved the installation problem.

No, Win10 over-rides any attempt to allow SecDRV to run (which is what's needed for the JT installer to proceed).

 

However I'm encouraged by your report that they provided the download version, whether that extends to a list of add-ons (and I also have a number of their train add-ons on disc) remains to be seen. Will update when I get a response.

WRT Win10 and SECDRV........

 

There are a number of threads regarding the issue dating back to when it become a problem with the initial release of W10 and MS's subsequent release of a KB that disabled it in Vista/W7/W8. SECDRV, as a tool, was first considered by some to be a security threat in late 2007 but the actual security risk was not fully identified until 2009 which caused it to fall into disuse.

 

With the Vista/W7/W8 OS versions , as SECDRV is still present, there are several ways to allow SECDRV to run. Unfortunately, there is no firm solutions/workaround as yet (but see link at bottom of post) for W10 as it is totally removed.

 

WRT the JF products - your statement

So a combination of Just Flight with their arcane copy protection system

is a bit unfair IMO.

 

JF were not the only company to use the SECDRV tool. Many others did - it was the standard anti-piracy tool in use during the late 90s to around 3009/2010. Indeed, many popular games outside of the simming world made use of it and now suffer the same issues.

 

In fairness to JF it is only their older titles that have the problem and, if one is totally being honest about the cause, it is not JF's fault. The reason why some of their older products no longer work is because MS took the decision to arbitrarily remove SECDRV with no announcement whatsoever.

 

IMO, JF, nor any other software developer, are legally obligated to provide a solution to a problem that has arisen due to another company's actions that has rendered their older products unusable. At the point of sale the software installed and worked as intended.

 

If you have brought the product recently from JF (which seems unlikely from your comments and the fact the JF have withdrawn from sale all boxed version of affected items from their website) then you may have a case but don't be surprised if they refuse to provide what you want.

 

A possible solution may be that which is outlined at option 5 on the following webpage - http://windowsreport.com/cd-games-windows-10/

Sadly the answer from JF was a resounding "no" though they did suggest the over-rider tool which didn't work either. It may not be JF's problem but Microsoft will deny it is theirs either and that they are acting to protect Win 10 users from the malevolent side effects of Securom. However that is no consolation for the honest customer caught in the middle between two companies who blame each other.

 

Maybe they're not legally obligated to resolve the problem, but that ignores customer satisfaction and the likelihood I will not purchase anything from JF in the foreseeable future if ever again - even as a download. Okay they can't give the whole value - what about 50% off purchasing the download? JF make a big song and dance about the effect people pirating their software have and, while not something I would condone or contemplate, seems incredulous that they turn round and treat the honest customer with little sympathy.

 

I'm certainly considering referring the matter to the UK Trading Standards Authority, if only to get their view on it.

IMHO You don't "own" any software. (Read the long acceptance thing.) Whether you download or buy discs, you don't own anything. They are only allowing you to use their software under license and there is no warranty even implied as to how long that license might be used. MS, JF, etc. all have that same deal.

Well the good news is that some of the later products do seem to work - MD81/82, FScene X, DC6 pack. DC10 Collection definitely doesn't nor does A340 or Volume 1 of the Airbus Series.

 

Well I guess I can live without the scarebuses, but the DC10 is a loss - will have to see if I can coax my old Aerosim FS9 versions across.

 

With regard to the response immediately above, yes we know that software publishers give bugger all guarantee or warranty when you pay money for them to graciously license their software. However that's the base position and a little latitude goes a long way in maintaining brand loyalty.

The decision whether or not you buy JF products again is entirely up to you. However, making the decision purely because JF have taken a decision that you clearly don't agree with and based on what you perceive to be a lack of sympathy and ignorance towards the 'needs' of a customer is, IMO, unfair. It reflects, based on your comments, your own ignorance regarding the issue.

 

If JF (or indeed any other company) were to give customers a refund/free copy/reduced price copy of an affected product, they would be effectively 'admitting' that their product was at fault when it clearly isn't. That little bit of latitude, as you termed it, would cost the company thousands with no assurance that users would remain loyal to the brand.

 

WRT to reporting the matter to Trading Standards (TS)- Good luck with that but I suspect that you will be disappointed. I doubt very much that TS will get involved. And if they do, they are very unlikely to rule in your favour as the facts clearly show that JF have not broken any regulations/laws etc and have no obligation, either legal or morally, to provide you with an solution. The product they provided was, at the time of sale, fit and proper for its intended use, having been developed to run on the equipment/OS standards available at that time. JF, nor any other developer, would be reasonably able to future proof their products so that they run on as yet undeveloped equipment/OS standards nor could they reasonably foresee that a particular piece of software, essential to allow their product to run, would be removed from future OS versions.

 

It is clear that from your original post that you have successfully used the product as it was intended/designed to be used at the initial point of sale and beyond. It is also clear from your initial post that you have taken a 'holiday' from simming and have since upgraded your OS - both actions that JF had no control over.

 

The fact is that, in this case, JF have met their legal obligations to you at the point of sale (and presumably during the time that you were using the product) and they have no legal obligations to provide a solution to a problem that has been caused by a third party many years after the product was provided.

 

Whilst I understand that you are miffed that the products no longer work, there are a number of workarounds available to you (as detailed in the link I provided at post #4).

Accept that and get on with your life.

According to the OP's logic, then Microsoft should be obliged to make sure that all the old DOS games etc. would work under Windows 10.

 

I think we all know that the chance of that happening is on par with the one of me getting to fly my lead glider anywhere except vertically down.

 

Jorgen

Thanks to their keyboard lawyers for their input above... In case you didn't read my post above your tl:dr responses, I've chiselled it down to one product that might need replacing which can go on the back burner anyway as I've replaced it with freeware alternative.

I'm not a lawyer, just a realist.....

 

Jorgen

Final report... I have now resolved the matter with JF to our mutual satisfaction, so no further comment on the issue other than I will be supporting the company in the future.