Feedback on Newbie Landing (VFR, Med Realism)

Hi everyone, I've been practising short flights in the Scottish Highlands for a while on easy realism and found them fairly easy to grasp - although I guess it's probably not the "right" way to do things, I usually manage a soft, slow, on target landing. VFR, with a little help from the GPS but I try to use it as little as possible.

I turned the realism up to Medium and found that besides having to adjust my bearings to stay on track against the wind, I'm finding my biggest difficulties during landing - not quite sure how to correct it and basically "winging it" (pardon the pun) - I was wondering if anyone was able to explain the forces at work throwing me off during the landing, and the proper way to correct them.

The YouTube video below is my landing at Wick airport in a Cessna Skyhawk. (Vid is less than two minutes and doesn't include approach)

Honest feedback/criticism welcome - I have a thick skin and want to learn. Also if anyone has any resources to point me to regarding this, that would be awesome.

https://youtu.be/1yajmsPVHGw

Thanks

-Bamp0t

I didn't look at the video, but the basic principal in crosswind landings is to lower the wing into the wind just enough to stop any tendency to drift left or right, while using the rudder to keep the nose pointed straight down the runway. You're actually using the force of lift in a partially sideways direction to counteract the wind.

So if the wind is coming partially (or fully) from the left, you'd lower the left wing a bit and add some right rudder, adjusting each as your speed decays and the wind changes. Of course you should be a bit nose high at touchdown, too. Less than full flaps might help, as well. Of course if the wind is from the right, you'll swap the lefts and rights above.

I hope you've first gotten comfortable with no-wind landings. If not, get that right, first. Perhaps the built-in FS lessons might help, as well.

Thanks. I did notice that as soon as the full flaps came out it was more difficult. I'll try less flaps, and the wing/rudder movement you've suggested.

The leason content itsslf seems great, but for me they're so buggy they're more frustrating than anything else, and I keep having to restart because the trainer's instructions seem different to what the program actually wants, lol. Has anyone made addon lessons or fixes?

Do you usually fly with all of those views open?

If so, I would say the first thing to do is close all of those external views down so you can focus on the task at hand.

The actual landing was pretty smooth, just too far down the runway. That happened because you were too high at the start of the video.

On final approach, adjust speed with the yoke/stick and altitude with the throttle.

Learn to use the PAPI/VASI lights, those four white lights on the side of the runway. Two of them should be red.

Focus on the far end of the runway to get lined up, then when you get close shift that focus to your landing spot.

On a perfect approach your landing spot will not move.

If it starts to slide under the plane you need to come down faster. Pull back on the throttle.

If it starts to move up on the wind screen you need to come down slower. Increase the throttle.

Watch your airspeed, if you slow down, push the nose down.

If you speed up, pull the nose up.

Lastly, practice, practice, practice.

peace,

the Bean

I don't always fly with those views - I would get way too distracted! I usually have a spot view in the top right - I use a 360 controller and don't have the buttons to cycle views when it's plain sailing, but I never look at it during manouvers. Just thought it would make the video more clear.

Appreciate the advice - the way I'd been doing it was adjusting speed via throttle, and altitude via trim. I seem to be either overshooting or undershooting - part of the problem, I think, is being a bit too jumpy with the controls. Trying to keep it all to small adjustments.

I'm off to Inverness now so I'll give it a shot the proper way! Gonna have a Google for these PAPI/VASI lights as I have seen them mentioned but never quite understood what was what.

I'm gonna keep this window handy for my next landing as this is some top advice.

As for practice, I love the North of Scotland and got an expansion for the terrain, lots of small airports close together, so getting plenty of practice and it doesn't feel like a chore at all :D

Lastly is there an easy way of checking wind direction/speed in real time? Sometimes it seems to change mid-approach, I don't know if this is due to different air currents at different altitudes or I was just guessing wrong in the first place.

Cheers both of you :)

Hey bamp,

There are many ways to enjoy flight simulation and I'm only going to state my preferences. I try to simulate what I see in the real world as closely as possible in the simulation. Sitting in the VC of the C172 here's what I see:

This view is very similar to what I see when looking down the road sitting behind the wheel of my car. I can see the speedometer in my peripheral vision but in order to see how fast I'm going I have to direct my view downward. Or even looking at my monitor I can see things on the desk in front of it but to see them clearly I have to look down.

I've left my WideViewAspect at the default False in the FSX.cfg as setting it to true forces an unrealistic wide angle view. This along with the default 0.7 zoom in the default flights results in a 0.5 zoom which is far removed from what one sees in reality. As an added minus this makes a 50 foot wide runway appear as if it were 25 feet wide.

In the default C172 I have the eyepoint in the Aircraft.cfg set as follows;

[Views]

eyepoint= -4.35, -0.9, 1.9 //long, lat, vert from datum (ft)

This seems correct.

As far as landing consider this. When the aircraft is on the proper 3 or 3.5 degree glidepath and the aircraft slows for landing the nose tends to rise. To overcome this, as well in aiding the slowing, the flaps are used. Flaps cause the tail to lift and if the throttle is decreased and the flaps are applied appropriately you'll never lose sight of the touchdown point until you flare.

Jim F.

Lastly is there an easy way of checking wind direction/speed in real time?

Not realistic, but easy, Shift + Z.

Or, as I do, just do bounces. Touch down where you should, or as best you can, give 'er the gun, suck up most of the flaps, and go. Do a good pattern, bring it in and do it again. And again, and again, and...

You get practice landing, pattern work, making good turns, controlling altitude, attitude and airspeed, just all around good practice. Don't let any form autopilot fly it, hand fly the whole way. Have the ILS dialed into NAV1, if any, but just for guidance, not automation of any kind.

Not very realistic, but maybe put a HUD in the plane to let you keep your head out of the cockpit, and give you a reference as to attitude and throttle control. Keep the velocity vector right on the end of the runway where you want to land using just the throttle. Great practice for landings. I put a HUD everywhere, realistic or not. Greatest instrument ever invented for aircraft.

I'm done babbling like a brook now. Good luck, and above all, have fun!

Pat☺

Bamp0t,

The first thing to do is get established in a pattern. If you don't know about flying patterns at airports, do a YouTube search. If you are not doing this it will make your landings harder. Enter the pattern about 1000' above the airport elevation on the downwind leg. I won't go in to all the details here but in a real 172 I drop one notch of flaps on downwind when I reduce the throttle and then another notch on base. I may or may not drop a third notch on final depending on the wind. Set up about a 500' per minute descent and try to hold it close. You want to be about 500' above the airport elevation when you roll out on final. When you are on final try to hold your speed at 65 or 70 if it is windy. As others have said use the ailerons and rudder to dip the wing in to the wind to prevent drifting and hold the center line with the rudder. Again flying a consistent established pattern will greatly help you with your landings. It looked like you were high on final and drifting around the center line quite a bit. Also practice, practice, practice. :) Good luck.

This is all brilliant advice guys, thank you. Definitely intending to buy a joystick. I'm just going to keep flying using the controller for a few weeks, making sure this whole flying thing isn't a whim, and then I'm gonna invest into a decent piece of equipment. I have wasted a lot of money in the past with "hobby-switching", so these days I'm very careful, lol.

Patterns are something I've not been doing at all, so that's definitely on the agenda. Thanks all!

Or go to a website called FSXMISSIONSHANGER.COM .You need to be a member. pretty cheap to be one . There are a couple of missions there a guy made . Where with the use of a program called Simvar it records how close you are to landings

http://fsxmissionshangar.com/node/481

http://fsxmissionshangar.com/node/394

I think the above links will get you to the site

After you master this Cessna you can MAKE it do what you want. Not just 'hang on' (and see what happens). SET the REALISM at MEDIUM - and LEAVE IT THERE (period!). You NEED twist grip rudder for cross wind landings, AND to turn OFF 'Auto Rudder', or else you can't 'pull it off'. Also your alignment is based on the 'apparent' nose position in relation to your panel view. I made a pic to show what I mean. Put the RUNWAY Center Line at the RED line on pic. NOT on the YELLOW line. This is a common mistake we all made at first. You'll learn to accept these 'sim related' annomalys.

Chuck B

Napamule

You NEED twist grip rudder for cross wind landings, AND to turn OFF 'Auto Rudder', or else you can't 'pull it off'.

Or rudder pedals -- twist grip is too awkward for me, and possibly some other folks too. But you're correct in that you need the separate rudder control.

Or rudder pedals -- twist grip is too awkward for me, and possibly some other folks too. But you're correct in that you need the separate rudder control.

Believe it or not, I use autorudder because I have no pedals or twist-grip controller and I still have independent control of the rudder with 2 buttons on the top of my joystick. I have successfully crabbed a 747 into Leeds-Bradford with a nasty crosswind.