CC/VBF Convair 240 "Proplems"

In FSX:SE, I'm flying the CC/VBF Convair 240 from cv240vbfca18_basepack_010.zip, with Ethiopian Air Lines livery from cv240vbfca18_eth_et-t-22_01.zip, using the KMCC panel from cv-240_ca18.zip. I'm having three issues:

1. The dreaded FS9-into-FSX "nasty prop disc" that gets hidden by clouds in the background 30 miles away. The Ethiopian Air Lines livery didn't come with a replacement blurry prop texture for FSX, and I can't find one for a 3-bladed prop with yellow tips. I rummaged through the FSX_Propdisks folder in the lockheed749.zip Constellation, but there is only a plain gray one and a couple of red/blue-tipped ones. Anybody know where a 3-bladed gray-with-yellow-tips replacement prop disc for FSX might be hiding?

2. I have not found any way to control prop RPM. Instead of the usual prop controls on stalks, there are two little black knobs in the center of the throttle quadrant labeled "prop switch" but clicking them has no effect on RPM- it just makes a clicketty-clack sound and a light turns on, indicating... that my popcorn is done? :p In other words, I have no idea what the light means, or what those strange black switches are supposed to be doing. Not only are there no prop stalks/levers as one would expect in any constant-speed prop aircraft, but RPM varies directly with throttle/manifold pressure, indicating that the constant-speed prop governors aren't working. Also, the usual FSX keyboard prop controls have no effect at all- hitting Ctrl+F2 to reduce RPM does absolutely nothing, and same for Ctrl+F3 to increase RPM. :mad: Can someone please point me in some direction that will result in gaining control over my RPM?

3. I can't tune any of the radios. The ATC window "auto-tunes" Com1 for me as required, but I can't tune the Nav radios at all. I've tried mouse-wheeling up and down on both the knobs and the frequency windows, right- left- and middle-clicking knobs and windows... nothing works.

Just to show why I need yellow tipped props, here is my current trip- FL210 halfway between Cairo and Jeddah:

http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u484/Hoggy_Dog/2015-5-5_19-1-40-584.png

Thanks in advance for any help taming this magnificent airplane!

Sorry to hear of your "Proplems" I just tried a test flight with the CV240. Did you notice on the small prop RPM adjust knobs that the top has a + and the bottom of the switch is a - sign?

Looking at my first shot is about 2 minutes after wheels up and the RPM gauges are in the RED. Location of the gauges is just above the 2 throttles.

This 2d shot is after clicking the - part of each switch about 6-8 times each to lower the RPM. The prop RPM switches work as advertized.

The best spinprop I have, with a yellow tip, is a 4-blader from the XP47J.

Or this one from a T-6 2-blade.

Try this download.... ai_prop_disk_textures.zip

Did you notice on the small prop RPM adjust knobs that the top has a + and the bottom of the switch is a - sign?

Nope. Never noticed that. I'm blind, you see, and I fly FSX using Braille controls.... :p

Seriously, haven't you ever wondered why the number pad keys on some electronic hangar door locks have Braille symbols on them? It's for us blind pilots. :cool:

While I appreciate your demonstration showing that YOU can get this FS9 panel to work, the reason I asked for help was for ME to get it to work. :D Maybe this short video will clarify what I thought I said in my OP. I uploaded it at 1920x1080 HD, so if you watch it in Full-Screen HD you will be able to read the gauges as we go along.

If I can just figure out how to do it, I'm thinking of transplanting the MJ C-47 V2 panel to this Convair because I KNOW that works. I tried to alias it, no joy. Then I copied the entire Panel folder from the C-47 to the Convair and referenced it in aircraft.cfg, still no joy, so now I'm out of ideas as to how to transplant the known-working C-47 panel to my panel-not-working CV-240.

Please let me know if you have any additional thoughts after watching my little vid, and thanks!

Got your switches on for Master and Avionics? I found all of the radios tune both + side and - side.

Are you using autothrottle on that 737-400 AP that you are using? Does prop RPM work on other aircraft? You also mention doing a shift+Fkey and that didn't work either. The MJ c-47V2 cockpit is VC and and not a 2D panel. Worst case scenario you can try the c-46A panel.

The only reason I show the shots of it working is so we can figure out what you've done to make it not work. (Sorry to put it that way!)

Got your switches on for Master and Avionics? I found all of the radios tune both + side and - side.

Yes, although the top switch of the two indicated in your screenshot is not a "Master" it's a "Marker Audio" switch and thus seemingly irrelevant to the operation of the Nav radios other than enabling the 3 ILS marker audio signals to be heard. Also, at least the COM1 radio "works" in the sense that ATC talks to me and I talk back to them. Also, please note the green "Active" light glowing on my COM1 radio in the video. If Avionics or Master were off, nothing would be glowing. The problem with my radios is simply that they are just un-tunable.... I can tuna fish but I can't tune a radio.

I just noticed that your aircraft ID is "American 240." This indicates that you are not flying the same airplane I'm flying. Specifically, I'm flying the model that comes inside of cv240vbfca18_basepack_010.zip, and I think the "American 240" airplane is the one that comes inside of cv-240_ca18.zip, which is the older version that is supposed to be downloaded but not installed, just used for its KMCC panel. The one I installed does not include an American Airlines livery, but the older one does. Can you verify which airplane it is that you're flying?

Also, you have 3 rectangular green lights labeled "N," "L," and "R" illuminated near the left side of your panel. Mine are not illuminated. What are those lights, and could they be connected with my prop governor and/or radio failures?

Are you using autothrottle on that 737-400 AP that you are using?

No. The only reason I put that autopilot there is because unlike the original AP which won't track the heading bug on the DG or hold altitude, the B737-400 AP does both. Autothrottle doesn't work, and as you can see, it's turned off anyway.

Does prop RPM work on other aircraft?

Yes, of course, except for those "other aircraft" operating in a prop-free environment, like a B737- Prop RPM isn't working on my 737s. :p

You also mention doing a shift+Fkey and that didn't work either.

Actually, I mentioned Ctrl+F2 and F3, not Shift. Ctrl+F2 is "Decrease RPM Incrementally" and the F3 combo is for increasing RPM the same way. The reason I mentioned the Ctrl+F-key not working is because

1. Ctrl+F2 and Ctrl+F3 work on all other airplanes including several other FS9 airplanes; and

2. Therefore, I don't think the panel's prop controls are broken per se- I think the airplane propeller governors are broken somehow since two separate means of controlling them both fail, plus they fail passively as well- RPM varies directly with throttle, exactly how a fixed-pitch setup works, but definitely NOT how a constant-speed setup is supposed to work.

The MJ c-47V2 cockpit is VC and and not a 2D panel.

Yes, I know that, but if push comes to shove I would rather lose the 2D panel and gain control over the aircraft systems and operation. The MJ C-47 V2 is very "flyable" for me even without a 2D panel- this Convair isn't very flyable for me without RPM control and tunable radios.

Worst case scenario you can try the c-46A panel.

My loathing for the C-46 panel is why I don't fly that airplane. The main reason I got it in the first place was for the squeaking brakes effect. I wanted to fly it, but it's kinda like the default DC-3 without a modernized panel... just too archaic to be useful. I definitely don't want to inflict the C-46's 1896 technology onto my nice, modern, 65-year-old Convair 240. :D

The only reason I show the shots of it working is so we can figure out what you've done to make it not work. (Sorry to put it that way!)

No apology needed, no offense taken. Since yours works and mine doesn't, either I've done something wrong or failed to do something right that you've done. Could this be a Simconnect or FSUIPC issue? Asking because I really don't know what either of those does, although I have both installed.

Let's just back up for a minute: what can you think of that would enable/disable the airplane's prop governors? Is there an entry somewhere such as "Constant_speed_props=1" or "Variable_pitch_props=1" or something similar? How are constant speed props enabled in FS9-based models? I ask because I'm using modified FDEs and if there's a line in them that enables/disables constant-speed props I'd like to look there first to make sure the good samaritan who modified them for me didn't inadvertently disable or remove prop governors.

No apology needed, no offense taken. Since yours works and mine doesn't, either I've done something wrong or failed to do something right that you've done. Could this be a Simconnect or FSUIPC issue? Asking because I really don't know what either of those does, although I have both installed.

 

Let's just back up for a minute: what can you think of that would enable/disable the airplane's prop governors? Is there an entry somewhere such as "Constant_speed_props=1" or "Variable_pitch_props=1" or something similar? How are constant speed props enabled in FS9-based models? I ask because I'm using modified FDEs and if there's a line in them that enables/disables constant-speed props I'd like to look there first to make sure the good samaritan who modified them for me didn't inadvertently disable or remove prop governors.

Simmconnect or FSUIPC will have no affect here. Those programs are used for communication between FSX and outside programs like some of the 3rd party weather programs. Unless you have the "paid" version of FSUIPC and use it to program your joystick or other controllers.

I was looking for something like you just mentioned since your other aircraft work and this one has problemos. Chuckster strikes again!:rolleyes:;) Did you save your old .air file? I think that's where the difference between yours and mine is. Or maybe you can PM Chuck and see if he can fix it for you. I'm flying it pretty much right off the download. I wonder if the modified FDE killed the radio tuning, also??

Did you save your old .air file? I think that's where the difference between yours and mine is.

Well, yes, of course I backed it up before replacing it, and even if I didn't, I still have the downloaded zip file. But the difference between mine and yours is deeper than just the .air file. You are flying a different airplane with a different panel.

• Your airplane seems to be the old CalClassics version, not the VBF version that I'm flying. The two airplanes are different in many ways as explained on the CC website.
  
• Your panel is not the same KMCC panel I'm using. Look at your screenshots: there is a white outline around your CHT and some other engine gauges in the center of the panel. Now look at my video: no white outline. Clearly, different panels.
  

So it seems we're back to Square One. Thanks for your help, and I'll just keep swapping parts in and out until I find something that works.

I do have all of the VBF modifications installed for this model. They redid the .air file and aircraft.cfg to "Make it fly better" by modifying the FDE.

I now realized I did not have the Wide Panel installed so I changed it and test flew again. Everything still works fine. I will now download Napamule2's FDE and try again with that.

I hate giving up trying to help someone. ;)

Holy screaming crapazoid, Batman! After installing the FDE update:

1. Radios will NOT tune. I can tunafish, I can almost carry a tune (NOT)

2. Upon takeoff (which took me 2 miles past the end of the runway) the RPM on both piston-slappers are 2 feet past redline, Yikes!

3. Guess what?? Trying to decrease the RPM, using either prop switch, does NADA!

I can only decrease RPM by decreasing the throttles.

4. Like the ad says on TV.....Talk to Chuck!

As I understand it this panel uses all kinds of 'custom' keys and XML that controls everything. So, if you use the KMCC panel my FDE's won't 'conpensate' for that. My FDE works fine with a 'default' FSX panel, I am sure. So sorry - talk to the hand...(hehe).

Chuck B

Napamule

Holy screaming crapazoid, Batman! After installing the FDE update:

 

1. Radios will NOT tune. I can tunafish, I can almost carry a tune (NOT)

 

2. Upon takeoff (which took me 2 miles past the end of the runway) the RPM on both piston-slappers are 2 feet past redline, Yikes!

 

3. Guess what?? Trying to decrease the RPM, using either prop switch, does NADA! I can only decrease RPM by decreasing the throttles.

 

4. Like the ad says on TV.....Talk to Chuck!

Hmmmm.... I vaguely recall someone else who had EXACTLY those same 3 problems. Wait a minute... his name is on the tip of my Hoggy tongue... :rolleyes:

As I understand it this panel uses all kinds of 'custom' keys and XML that controls everything. So, if you use the KMCC panel my FDE's won't 'conpensate' for that. My FDE works fine with a 'default' FSX panel, I am sure. So sorry - talk to the hand...(hehe).

Chuck B

Napamule

No worries, Chuck, and thank you from the bottom of my pea-picker for your help.

OK. So here's what I did:

1. Copied the original VBF air file back and test flew. Voilà! RPM controls work now! However, radios still won't tune.

2. Tossed the KMCC radio stack, which says it came out of a DC6B, into the great digital beyond, and installed a B737-400 radio stack. Voilà! Radios tune now!

While I was hacking Panel.cfg to death anyway, I made these tweaks:

• Replaced the little oddly-shaped GPS-295 with a nice, rectangular GPS-500
  
• Replaced the horrible-looking Nav/GPS switch that was hanging off the edge of the GPS with a Cessna Nav/GPS switch and annunciator on the main panel
  
• Re-dimensioned the airline and flight number display boxes to a size large enough to contain "ETHIOPIAN 388," my chosen airline and current flight number. Previously, they were partially superimposed over each other.
  

Now my panel looks like this with the radio stack popup active:

http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u484/Hoggy_Dog/2015-5-7_19-50-23-575.png

As far as I know, everything now works. However, the airplane is probably going to taxi and fly like crap again since I had to replace the modified air file to get RPM control. :mad:

Again, thanks to you both for your help.

You are a better man than me. I would have tossed out the panel (and paint) a long time ago. These are 'older' models and panels, so you are bound to have a problem or two porting over to FSX. But this 'get up' took the cake. What a mess. I am still reading the instructions, so can't say if I ever will fly this panel. But I am going to try the original air, just for kicks. I'm game. (Hey, you are squaking '890'? Are 'they' going to shoot you out of the sky? Just saying..(hehe)).

Chuck B

Napamule

Good going! At least flying it is better than trying to fly it and have it not work! Did you find any better yellow tipped props yet?

No sir. I appreciate the two you sent, but I'm so anal that I would rather have defective 3-bladed spinny props than fully functional 2- or 4-bladed ones, just because the CV-240 had 3-bladed props. Sooner or later, I'll stumble over a 3-bladed FSX-compatible yellow-tipped spinny prop, and then it'll be Katie bar the door. Or something.

Meanwhile, I just won't fly near clouds. ;)

No sir. I appreciate the two you sent, but I'm so anal that I would rather have defective 3-bladed spinny props than fully functional 2- or 4-bladed ones, just because the CV-240 had 3-bladed props. Sooner or later, I'll stumble over a 3-bladed FSX-compatible yellow-tipped spinny prop, and then it'll be Katie bar the door. Or something.

 

Meanwhile, I just won't fly near clouds. ;)

Don't know if you saw this way down under those prop pictures. ai_prop_disk_textures.zip in the Library. They have 3-bladed, yellow tippers.

I would have tossed out the panel (and paint) a long time ago.

Well, the Ethiopian Air Lines paint is the ONLY reason I even got this airplane in the first place. Please see this post and this post if you are interested in why I am obsessing over this particular Ethiopian Air Lines (circa 1956) livery.

I've been begging every painter I can find on 3 forums to make this livery for the MJ C-47 V2, but so far the silence has been deafening... so if I want to fly this livery, which I very much do, this Convair is my only option.

Yes, I looked at the Constellation L749 with this livery, but that particular airplane is not one I have any attachment to like I do for the C-47s and Convairs, both of which I flew in while we were there.

As far as the panel is concerned, I like the overall "Steam Punk" (pun intended since I'm using the Steam Edition :p ) look of the KMCC Convair panel, but I don't like its lack of functionality. So now that I've got RPM control and mostly-functional autopilot and radios, I'm slowly changing out the old, low-function 1940s gauges for 1950/1960-era ones. So far I've gotten an attitude indicator, HSI & FD switch from the default Baron in my efforts to force this airplane, kicking and screaming, to fly a coupled ILS approach... which it refuses to do even after I replaced the AP with the B737-400 one. I'll post another screenie of the panel once I get it all working.

Hey, you are squaking '890'? Are 'they' going to shoot you out of the sky? Just saying..(hehe)).

*blink*

I am? :eek: FSX auto-sets my squawks when they are assigned to me via the ATC Clearance Delivery window, so I don't pay any attention to it. My bad.

I have been on this same flight for several nights now, swapping stuff in and out of the panel, changing air files, tweaking aircraft.cfg, etc. and I replaced the radio stack, including the Transponder, in mid-flight, meaning AFTER ATC gave me a code to use back in Cairo.

Apparently, the Xponder has to be present in the aircraft when the squawk is received from ATC in order to auto-set itself, and this one wasn't.

It's squawking 0890 because I hijacked it from a Baron. :pilot:

I just tried the 3-bladed, 1-armed paperhanging spin_prop.bmp from the download. Looks good on the ground. Try it up in the clouds. Check your other thread about the window lighting and the advertising on the elevators! I can hear the groan from here!:rolleyes:

Don't know if you saw this way down under those prop pictures. ai_prop_disk_textures.zip in the Library. They have 3-bladed, yellow tippers.

Crap. No, I managed to overlook that. Thanks, and I'm unpacking it now.

Crap. No, I managed to overlook that. Thanks, and I'm unpacking it now.

Be sure to rename the .bmp file to match the one you are replacing!

Don't get me wrong. I admire your tenacity. And I am happy to help a fellow 'anal' (I resemble that remark..). On the transponder - I believe it s/b '1200.0' - not sure. And for the AP to 'work' for ILS approach, you may have to sub AP sections (plural) in the air file from a 'modern' ac (even from the Baron?). And I subed every prop (even Banana Bob's) I could find from various ac on my hard drive (took about 3 hours) with 'no go' on that. Will try the 'ai_' props. I have the panel but haven't tried it yet (waiting for you to iron out the wrinkles for me (hehe)). Keep up the good work.

Chuck B

Napamule

On the transponder - I believe it s/b '1200.0' - not sure.

No, 1200 is the VFR squawk, and I was on an IFR flight plan when I took the panel screenies & video. However, the "0890" you saw is the frequency set into the ADF. the transponder is the one above the ADF.

And for the AP to 'work' for ILS approach, you may have to sub AP sections (plural) in the air file from a 'modern' ac (even from the Baron?).

I tried to open an air file just to see what it looked like, and neither Windows nor me has a clue what program to open it with. So, I won't be subbing anything into or out of air files.

And I subed every prop (even Banana Bob's) I could find from various ac on my hard drive (took about 3 hours) with 'no go' on that. Will try the 'ai_' props.

I tried the 3-bladed yellow-tipped spinny prop from the ai download, and it's the same as the original one- gets hidden by background clouds 30 miles away, plus the tips aren't as bright as the original one, so I reverted to that.

Hey Zippy and NappyMule:

http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u484/Hoggy_Dog/2015-5-8_21-40-8-348.png

As soon as I get permission to share it I will.

:D

After replacing the autopilot and radio stack with more recent ones from the 737-400, the gyro horizon with an attitude indicator, the omni gauge with an HSI, both from the default Baron, plus a Cessna Nav/GPS switch and annunciator, plus swapping the RMI and VSI to place the VSI under the altimeter where it belongs, what I've got is an airplane that will track a heading and hold an altitude via the AP as expected, and will also navigate via the GPS if the Nav/GPS switch is properly set to GPS. Yay, and that's the end of the good news.

Here's what it looks like tonight:

http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u484/Hoggy_Dog/2015-5-8_23-34-33-943.png

Now the bad news (I hate it when the gnus are naughty):

The GPS won't always navigate properly because it won't cycle the waypoints when Departure inexplicably vectors me far off my route for absolutely no reason, such that I don't ever cross my first two waypoints. The GPS keeps doggedly wanting to turn the airplane around to fly back 75 miles to a previous waypoint- and I don't know how to make it cycle to the correct waypoint. So you can see in the picture above I'm in heading mode and just using the GPS to paint me a pretty white line to follow. Times like this I just want to throw something at a Departure controller. :mad:

Although the HSI responds normally to rotating the OBS knob, showing on-track and off-track indications as expected, the airplane will not track a radial (with the Nav/GPS switch in Nav, of course) even if I center the airplane up exactly on the radial before switching the AP from Hdg to Nav. Since it won't even track a VOR radial, I'm pretty sure it won't track either part of an ILS. I notice that there is a separate gauge for ILS tracking :confused: on the far left side of the panel, and it responds to OBS knob rotation as well, swinging its vertical needle toward the desired track or centering the needle if we're on the selected VOR radial, but the autopilot just won't "connect" with any of the Nav radios- just with the GPS- which as I mentioned just wants me to go back 50-75 miles and cross the waypoints ATC made me miss. :mad::mad::mad:

I think I'm done at this point, not for lack of willingness to continue, but for lack of knowledge HOW to make the AP connect to the Nav radios. The last thing I want to do at this point is hack the air file again, even if I knew how to do that, because of all the problems that caused last time.

Oh and one final note: either these engines are grossly overpowered for this airplane OR the airplane has no drag at all. Note that I'm doing over 200 KIAS at 17,000 feet with the engines throttled back so far that the MAP is well below the green arc. If I set manifold pressure anywhere in the green arc, I get an overspeed. :eek: This is just nuts.

Anybody got any ideas how to make this KMCC panel fully functional without just ripping it out and replacing the entire thing with a Baron panel? Based on what Chuck said, even replacing the entire panel might not work because some of its functions are/might be "hard-coded" in the air file. :(

Well you need to take a break, but don't give up now. You almost got it. I can help with the air file (you need 'AirEd' to open it). Also I can look at your aircraft cfg. 2 heads are better than 1 sometimes.

I think there MAY be sections missing in air file. Some of these 'classics' were dumbed down to what is 'real' for the model. Nothing says you can't 'upgrade' or 'modify' to meet your (modern) neeeds. It's for your own use, so no one should object. And it's not 'against the law' to get help.

I never got into tracking a radial, or using the GPS. 99.9% I fly VFR. The rest of the time I 'IFR' (I Follow Roads). I use the GPS as a moving map and rely on the radios to 'home me in' to my airport. And I don't 'do' ATC anymore. So there's always tomorrow to go at it again. Cheers.

Chuck B

Napamule

Here is a better pic of your EAL with cabin lights fixed.

I never got into tracking a radial, or using the GPS.

Well, this isn't the best-flying airplane in my hangar by any means- it's kind of like flying a helicopter in FSX: constant battle from liftoff to touchdown, no stability at all, and very difficult to trim for straight and level flight. So I really like handing it off to the AP from time to time.

Anyway, I just fixed the VOR navigation! Now tracking a radial in Nav mode! I'm about 100nm N of Asmara, so I'll shoot the ILS there and see if the autopilot even knows the ILS is there...

Aha. Not taking a break!? I am. Or at least I like to vary the routine-will get back to the CV-240 tamale. Here is what I am flying tonight. Flys good. No problems (well, just installed it-so stand by (hehe).

Chuck B

Napamule