Approach & patterns

So it's safe to say that up until recently, I've never really taken the Free Flight section tooooo seriously. Most I've done is set up a flight plan, take off where I was, follow the GPS to where I wanted to go while taking in the scenery, set her down and be done. Never bothered with the ATC. However, I've decided lately I want to do it properly.

It's caused a bit of an issue at first because I'd "spawn" the airplane at a gate and get clearance to taxi etc, but the pushback always resulted in a crash - no mention of the TYPE of crash, just a Crash! event. Howver I'll need to go through and disable all my extra scenery etc to check that out so it's an issue for another day. My solution to that is to just spawn on the runway I want, get taxi clearance to it, then immediately tune Ground and get takeoff clearance.

My current hurdle is, as I'm sure you can guess from the topic title, approaching airports and holding patterns etc. I've tried on about 5 airports now, and none of them have given me direct clearance to land, always putting me in a pattern. That's fine, but there is NOTHING around at all. Nobody on the ground, nobody near the airport, but my clearance always takes forever to come in. At first I thought it was because I didn't really understand the patterns I was being given, so I made a concious effort on my approach to Nice to really try and hope that my clearance would come in in decent time.

The instruction I was given was "Make right base, runway 22R". Which, my interpretation was to have my downwind leg with the runway on my right, so that my turn on to the base leg was a right turn. I've attached a screenshot of the GPS after I landed, upon which I've drawn my approximate path in red. Was this correct?

The big problem was that even as I came onto the base leg, I never got clearance. I ended up losing patience and cancelled my landing intention so that the ATC didn't yell at me for landing without clearance and taking one of my usual abysmal approaches that resulted in my landing with the left wheel barely on the runway (seriously, I cannot position an aircraft for love nor money...). In that situation, what was I ACTUALLY supposed to do? Make an "upwind" leg up the other side and repeat my pattern?

Let's assume you landed on 22. Ok. :)

You interpreted correct. Right base. = all right hand turns, right hand pattern.

You should have just continued, you'll get landing clearance on final. (but only if your approach is 'ok'. So not to high or to far to the left or right. Sometimes clearance to land comes very late. Just continue and you'll either get cleared to land or told to go around.)

"Nobody on the ground, nobody near the airport, but my clearance always takes forever to come in."

This is normal with AI ATC. This is why I only fly human ATC.

The more you work with the default ATC, the more you'll discover it's not 100% realistic.

It's there as a teaching tool more than for traffic avoidance or learning SIDS and STARS which the ATC mostly ignore.

"...I want to do it properly.

It's caused a bit of an issue at first because I'd "spawn" the airplane at a gate and get clearance to taxi etc, but the pushback always resulted in a crash..."

Variety of reason for this but the most probable is probably your aircraft touching scenery. No need to reduce scenery level if you do the following...

For this reason and others (realism) I and many others create saved flights at one or more of our favorite airports with the plane completely shut down and using slew or the Airport parking option box, *carefully* place the aircraft at our favorite parking or gate.

Your plane will load up fine there every time you restore the flight. Make sure to select an appropriate gate-parking for your size of aircraft. Just relying on the default is not enough unless you have a very small plane.

You can create many saved flights for airports and gates, of you can create ONE at your most used position, then use the airport/parking menus to select the location where you want to start.

-Pv-

Tip.

When approaching an airport, tune the atis frequency well in advance. You can find the frequency on the map, or, in the gps above the ils and tower frequency.

On the atis you hear the current weather, and the active runway. You can recieve this transmission from around 60NM away. So before you hear the tower.

Tune atis on com2 and set radio to 'com1' and to 'both'. That way on com1 you can communicate with atc. At the same time through com2 you hear the atis.

Enjoy,

il88pp.

Oh, if just before the touchdown zone you are still way to high to land. You will not hear anything from atc at all.

You can then fly the pattern again, on your own. Often you will get clearance very early in that case.

Or you could cancel, get on downwind yourself, and request landing permission again.

EDIT. Atc can give surprising instructions. Keeps you on your toes.

Don't dismiss the default atc to easily. There were a few times I was sure atc was wrong, and I landed anyway, only to find an aircraft taking off in the opposite direction!

If it doesn't 'feel' right, go around!

Thanks guys - yeah figured I landed on the wrong runway, which wouldn't help my cause! I had a brainfart.

I tried another approach at Malta and ATC told me "straight in runway 14", and I got my clearance in good time. Was a scary landing though, I turned on "real weather" and it seems Malta's getting some wind....

If you use an external weather program, you can find out what the weather is going to be at your destination before you get in range of the ATIS.

-Pv-

It's caused a bit of an issue at first because I'd "spawn" the airplane at a gate and get clearance to taxi etc, but the pushback always resulted in a crash - no mention of the TYPE of crash, just a Crash! event.

Turn off crash detection.

So many people complain about the ATC system, I think it works pretty good, for a computer program.

On the other hand, the crash detection system is awful. Far worse than the ATC system.

I do not need the crash detection to tell me when I crash, I know it.

What I dislike is the crashes that should not be crashes.

peace,

the Bean

I have CD on since day one and have never turned it off. I get a crash on landing about 2-4 times a year and never on load up due to the saved flights.

Knowing the misery a "real" aircraft crash causes to my flight experience gives me added incentive to avoid it.

Since I fly online a lot, observers KNOW when someone uses the detect off because the plane bounces off the runway like a basketball. They also know when you have crashed for real because FS sends you back to the starting location. "... hehe (sympethetic)... he crashed..."

"...snicker (derisive)... he cheated..."

-Pv-

You should un-check 'Auto-Rudder' in your 'Aircraft/Realism' if you want to be able to handle those cross winds (ie: by doing a 'crab' approach).

That goes for the J3 Cub on up to the 747. With auto-rudder 'ON' you won't be able to control AC in the cross wind and you WILL wind up off the runway (especially if you come straight in line with runway as the 'critical point' will ALWAYS come at less than 50 ft, and just when you think you 'got it made' (ha)).

Chuck B

Napamule

Edit: Quote: "Make right base, runway 22R". Maybe it means 'Make right (turn, from) base (your current position), (to land on) runway 22R'?

I do some pretty extreme crosswinds with autocoord on but of course I do not depend on aileron only for control. It all depends on the quality of the flight model. Look up the specs for the aircraft. If it cannot pull a crosswind near the stated limits with auto on, there is something wrong.

-Pv-

The instruction I was given was "Make right base, runway 22R". Which, my interpretation was to have my downwind leg with the runway on my right, so that my turn on to the base leg was a right turn.

If ATC says make a right base, then you are likely on or near that base leg, and you certainly should not expect to do a downwind leg before landing -- there should only be base and final.

Looking at the GPS path you show, you made a crosswind, downwind, base and final to 04, rather than 22 -- the first right turn should have been onto final for 22.

Next time you'll know -- 'tis a learning process...

Quote: '..do some pretty extreme crosswinds'

30 kt crosswinds? I would like to see just how smooth you manage to do that (make a video).

Chuck B

Napamule

If ATC says make a right base, then you are likely on or near that base leg, and you certainly should not expect to do a downwind leg before landing -- there should only be base and final.

 

Looking at the GPS path you show, you made a crosswind, downwind, base and final to 04, rather than 22 -- the first right turn should have been onto final for 22.

 

Next time you'll know -- 'tis a learning process...

So my pattern wasn't just your average, everyday wrong, it was advanced wrong? :P

Yeah I guess I did kinda blow it. My problem was I misunderstood the runway instruction, really. When ATC said "22R" I assumed it meant that aircraft leaving the runway would be doing so at heading 220, for some reason it didn't click that I'd be LANDING at heading 220, so that's why I had the cross & downwind legs of the pattern. And probably why I never got my final clearance.

One last clarification: if I get instruction like that again, am I to assume that I make the pattern and make for landing? I guess if ATC wants me to hold in a pattern, they'll issue a holding instruction?

Edit: oh, and napamule2 - I do have autorudder off. The main problem was lack of experience, and being buffeted around quite a bit.

You should un-check 'Auto-Rudder' in your 'Aircraft/Realism' if you want to be able to handle those cross winds (ie: by doing a 'crab' approach).

 

That goes for the J3 Cub on up to the 747. With auto-rudder 'ON' you won't be able to control AC in the cross wind and you WILL wind up off the runway (especially if you come straight in line with runway as the 'critical point' will ALWAYS come at less than 50 ft, and just when you think you 'got it made' (ha)).

Chuck B

Napamule

Not quite true, Chuck! I use autorudder and have done a couple of spectacular crab approach/landings at Leeds Bradford in my 747. No rudder control on my joystick but the keyboard controls work to swing the rudder in either direction.

When ATC said "22R" I assumed it meant that aircraft leaving the runway would be doing so at heading 220, for some reason it didn't click that I'd be LANDING at heading 220, so that's why I had the cross & downwind legs of the pattern. And probably why I never got my final clearance.

Using runway 22 means your heading will be about 220º. Both landing and departing aircraft will have that 220º heading, both going towards the southwest.

One last clarification: if I get instruction like that again, am I to assume that I make the pattern and make for landing? I guess if ATC wants me to hold in a pattern, they'll issue a holding instruction?

I'm not sure exactly how you mean that, but you wouldn't make a complete pattern if you receive that type of instruction. Just visualize the rectangular pattern (in the direction specified, right or left turns) and figure which part of it you're already on, or that you can slightly modify your path and be on. In your original post you were on base leg for 22 when you got the instruction.

And yes, if ATC wants you to hold somewhere, they'll give a specific instruction to that effect, along with where to hold, such as the 55º radial of ABC VOR, perhaps with an altitude.

Check out Chapter 4, Section 2 of the FAA's Aeronautical Information Manual (AIM). Sections 3 and 4 would also be beneficial to you.

"And yes, if ATC wants you to hold somewhere, they'll give a specific instruction to that effect, along with where to hold, such as the 55º radial of ABC VOR, perhaps with an altitude."

Yes, real ATC will do that, but the FSX ATC will never issue a hold. To them, air traffic conflicts don't exist (just a visual confirmation you see them) so no reason to hold. The AI will bring you straight in to a conflicted approach then give you an abort if there is a plane on the runway at the last second. The AI only cares what happening on the ground and all directions in the air is to get you lined up for the runway.

Another way to speed things up if the maneuvers to get you lined up are too long is the change runway to one you are more closely lined up to.

-Pv-