Anyone Experiencing This Controller Issue

Tried searching the forums and the query can pull many different things. So if its been discussed feel free to point me in the right direction.

Issue: Feels like im fighting heavy turbulence when in manual control.

When Noticed: Immediately after take off and when landing.

Decription: Will get violent turns to the left and right that feel like something out of those YouTube videos with airliners landing in extreme cross winds. Fuel is balanced in wings. Winds could be calm but seems to happen at any setting. Hasn't caused a crash but would be pretty unrealistic to safely fly in. Happens in all sorts of planes so far. Caravan, Cit 4, Cessna 172 etc.

Equipment: Alpha Controls, CH throttle quad, logic pedals.

Footnote. I know how to fly and control an actual airplane so this isn't an issue of me over correcting or something. Just wondering if anyone else has experienced this and if anyone figured out a setting.

I also dont think this happened in my first few flights so im wondering if its a gear issue or setting the got changed.

Thoughts?

Its not you...its a bit dodgy on both take off and landing. First thing I noticed after I bought it.

Aaron

The thing is, in planes your hand grips firmly on the yoke.

The plane will always try to go left even with calm wind due to Torque and P factor

In a real plane your hand makes great pleasure if you feel the yoke wants to move

in the sim you are calm and relaxed and expect that just your fingers are enough to control the plane inside the computer.

So it was on previous versions. The plane wont turn if you maintain a firm grip applying opposite force, in airliners the ailerons are trimmed automatically

In GA your hand must not let the plane do what it wants, but instead what you want.

Heres some literature

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Propeller torque effect

Torque effect is the influence of engine torque on aircraft movement and control. It is generally exhibited as a left turning tendency in piston single engine propeller driven aircraft.

According to Newton's law, "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction," such that the propeller, if turning clockwise (when viewed from the cockpit), imparts a tendency for the aircraft to rotate counterclockwise. Since most single engine aircraft have propellers rotating clockwise, they rotate to the left, pushing the left wing down.

Typically, the pilot is expected to counter this force through the control inputs. To counter the aircraft roll left, the pilot applies right aileron.

It is important to understand that torque is a movement about the roll axis. Aileron controls roll. Prop torque is not countered by moving the rudder or by setting rudder trim. It is countered by moving or trimming the aileron.

This correction induces adverse yaw, which is corrected by moving or trimming the rudder (right rudder).

On aircraft with contrarotating propellers (propellers that rotate in opposite directions) the torque from the two propellers cancel each other out, so that no compensation is needed.

Further Reading: Propeller Torque Factor

P-Factor

P-factor is the term for asymmetric propeller loading, that causes the airplane to yaw to the left when at high angles of attack.

Assuming a clockwise rotating propeller it is caused by the descending right side of the propeller (as seen from the rear) having a higher angle of attack relative to the oncoming air, and thus generating a higher air flow and thrust than the ascending blade on the left side, which at the other hand will generate less airflow and thrust. This will move the propellers aerodynamic centre to the right of the planes centreline, thus inducing an increasing yaw moment to the left with increasing angle of attack or increasing power. With increasing airspeed and decreasing angle of attack less right rudder will be required to maintain coordinated flight.

This occurs only when the propeller is not meeting the oncoming airflow head-on, for example when an aircraft is moving down the runway at a nose-high attitude (in essence at high angle of attack), as is the case with tail-draggers. Aircraft with tricycle landing gear maintain a level attitude on the takeoff roll run, so there is little P-factor during takeoff roll until lift off.

When having a negative angle of attack the yaw moment will instead be to the right and and left rudder will be required to maintain coordinated flight. However negative angles of attack is rarely encountered in normal flight. In all cases, though, the effect is weaker than prop wash.

Kapitan

Thanks for the reply. I versed in p factor etc. Thats why i dropped that line of knowing how to fly. I meant in real life. :)

What im seeing is violent roll to the left and right immediately after wheels up. It feels like its fighting a handoff between two systems.

Let me put it this way. If left unchecked it would take about a second and a half to put the plane on its side, into a stall and into the ground. With a reasonable counter input it will completely over correct to the other side.

This seems well beyond torque from the engine.

Ill do some testing tonight and see if i can solve.

For those that are intersted.

So what had happened was......

After some testing and tweaking. It was on legacy mode. Good god. I implore anyone having issues with controls or random movements etc. CHECK THAT SETTING. Turned it to Modern and its a whole new sim. Ran a bunch of touch and goes with the C172 and it was like butter.

Im slowly finding settings and tweaks that are pealing away the layers of what could be frustration for many others.

Thats great Aaron

The Flight Model has the Legacy and Modern mode., I should have suggested you that in the first place as I did in another thread in a similar case.

But you know, there's is a psychological factor that easily fools us.

In a real plane we are sitting in a 3D world and feeling the forces even to make the plane taxi, to close the door, to enter the plane, we feel them thru our bottom and spine. Our muscles apply pressure on surfaces on a different magnitude than in the sim. Even to turn a knob.

Sitting in a computer we adjust to keyboard-joystick reality of periphereals. Two fingers to correct things in a monitor. Your chair is not moving. Its all pretending. Thats why we dont apply pressure on the toke as we would in real life.

For those that are intersted.

 

So what had happened was......

 

After some testing and tweaking. It was on legacy mode. Good god. I implore anyone having issues with controls or random movements etc. CHECK THAT SETTING. Turned it to Modern and its a whole new sim. Ran a bunch of touch and goes with the C172 and it was like butter.

 

Im slowly finding settings and tweaks that are pealing away the layers of what could be frustration for many others.

What and where is the Legacy Mode you are talking about? I am getting frustrated with trying to hand fly the few aircraft I have tried and just want to check if this could be my problem. I am using a CH Yoke, Pedals, and Quadrant.

It’s under Options... General.. & then the Flight Model tab.

You you see “modern” or “legacy” near the top of the menu

Regards

Steve

the place where you go to Configure your MSFS

ESC

GENERAL

FLIGHT MODEL

On top there is a wording either LEGACY or MODERN , change it to MODERN and then several sliders, which I leave at 100%

make sure you take a good look at all your GENERAL and ASSISTANCE settings because every time you think its a problem thats the first place to check

the place where you go to Configure your MSFS

ESC

GENERAL

FLIGHT MODEL

On top there is a wording either LEGACY or MODERN , change it to MODERN and then several sliders, which I leave at 100%

 

make sure you take a good look at all your GENERAL and ASSISTANCE settings because every time you think its a problem thats the first place to check

Mine is set to Modern and the sliders are all greyed out. I have to change it to Legacy to change any of the sliders. Is that correct?

Mine is set to Modern and the sliders are all greyed out. I have to change it to Legacy to change any of the sliders. Is that correct?

Correct

Modern is as real as Asobo could make it

Legacy lets you select the realism sliders

I went from legacy to modern. I was impossible to fly on legacy (hadn't adjusted the sliders) Once I went over to modern the whole thing felt much more real. FWIW.

Could be the Alpha vs the CH. I ordered an Alpha back in August. It was supposed to ship on Sept 1 but then was delayed until Sept 15. Now they are telling me maybe Oct 31 so I have decided to try to get comfortable with the CH while I wait. It just feels like i have to "fight" the controls all the time unless the AP is turned on.