Default 737 landing procedure from establishment on the localizer onwards

Hi all,

I'm trying to learn to fly the default 737 as close to correct/established practice as I can get, and I'm starting with landings using an ILS. I've got a fsx flight saved which I'm practicing from over and over which requires (because of my weight) an approach speed of 140kts and flaps set at 40.

I've used the below resources to try and figure out what the correct/established practice is but they differ in a couple of respects.

This article (https://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/content.php?2027-How-To-Fly-The-Boeing-737-The-Basics) suggests the following:

Before joining the localizer - Airspeed at 180kts, Flaps 5, when the localizer and glide slope pointers are displayed, press the APP button.

When the glideslope becomes active - Airspeed 150kts, Flaps 15, Gear Down, Arm Spoiler

When glideslope is 1 dot above center - Airspeed 140, Flaps 25

When glideslope is intercepted - Airspeed = approach speed, Flaps 30

This article (https://www.ivao.aero/training/documentation/books/CP_ILS_approach_B737.pdf) has a couple of points of difference:

1) Before joining the localizer - Airspeed 180 - 220kts

2) Spoilers armed when established on the localiser (as opposed to when the Glide Slope becomes active above)

3) Airspeed is reduced to 160kts, Flaps set to 15 and Gear Down when the Glide Slope is active with;

4) Remaining approach configuration to be completed at the Outer Marker

So, which is more closely aligned with real world practice? Do these details differ from airline to airline anyways, or are there universally accepted procedures for the 737?

Specifically I would like to know:

1) Is there a proper Airspeed to approach the localizer prior to becoming established? Is it a hard 180kts, or is there a range like 180-220kts?

2) At what point should the spoilers be armed?

3) Can anyone provide any clarification around when/where/how Airspeed is reduced to landing configuration and flaps applied? Is it in reference to Glide Slope movement as in the first article, or does it occur at two distinct points as the second article suggests?

4) Is there an 'common' time for the pilot to disarm the autopilot and auto-speed? I've been using around 600 ft, should it be higher? (I realise the latest this can occur is around Decision Height but do pilots tend to take-over earlier to get a feel for the aircraft?)

5) I've realised the absence of the cushion effect in FSX makes flaring a little bit awkward. I'm still working on this, but at what sink rate should I be looking to touchdown. Somewhere in the vicinity of -1 to -200 fpm? Assume a dry runway, no wind.

6) At what speed should spoilers be retracted? 50kts?

7) At what point are flaps set to nil again? Shortly after exiting the runway?

Thanks everyone,

Trent

In a lightish 737 150-145 kt in final bit of approach.

Before that flaps adjusted to speed.

Do land full flaps. Always. So you can keep speed low.

The default 737 is not a real one. That real world data/numbers you should not follow.

Much of what you read about 'the 737' is about the pmdg 737. Those numbers are closer to the real world data. Again is useless for flying the default one.

Reduce / close reversers at 60 or below. Spoilers can be left up no issue.

I never checked touchdown fps. I don't have a software to show that number.

I approach at 3000 agl, fully configured. Flaps 40 and speed 155kt. From about 20NM out. That makes it much easier to maneuver into position.

There is not one right way to fly.

Do what you are most comfortable with.

Many laymen think that flying is all about getting there fast. It's not. It's just about getting there safe.

Keep practicing. Enjoy!

il.

I regularly fly the default 738. I'm 180kt when I intercept the ILS and fly the glide slope at 150kt with flaps at 30. Gear is down early.

Spoilers are set when I intercept the ILS and deploy on touchdown. I go to manual speed about 2 miles out and cancel AP about 1 mile out, unless I'm not happy with the alignment so cancel AP much earlier and manually adjust.

I engage reverse thrust when all wheels are on the ground and the spoilers automatically retract when I cancel the reverse thrust at 60kt and apply brakes. I rarely use auto brake as I prefer not to stop on the runway and roll to an exit at 15kt where I retract flaps.

This is my "normal" approach but I'm sure is far from "real". (I have wind shear turned off in AS16 [emoji39]). Things I'm not happy with in this are:

1. Warning beep when flaps are 5 degrees or more and the gear isn't down, even though speed and altitude are okay. I'm not happy with the higher angle of attack because of this.

2. I try and intercept the glide slope at 30 degrees but if I switch to NAV and APP too early I seem to miss recapturing it even though my ILS frequency is correctly set and I'm aligned dead centre on the glide path. (Strangely, my heading is corrected by the ILS but altitude isn't so I have to manually lower it to touchdown).

3. Unhappy with skewing along the runway with reversers or brakes applied and released. Don't recall this on real flights I've been on!

I think you're doing well with your approach but don't get too hung up on procedure in the default 737. Every landing you walk away from is a good one! [emoji23]

Phil,

With all respect, a landing that you can walk away from is a safe one.

After a good landing you'll be able to use the airplane again.

My own landing procedure is rather simple: 1. Lower wheels, and 2. Aim for ground.

Jorgen

I never checked touchdown fps. I don't have a software to show that number.

In the Sim press shift + Z twice.

Press shift + Z multiple times for different information.

The program fraps will show FPS as well. I don't use it anymore as it created very large non-MP4 files. I use OBS Studio I think it's called. Actually been a while since I fired it up and did a video.

Yep, OBS Studio. https://obsproject.com/

But this software doesn't show FPS. You're better off with shift + Z.

1) Is there a proper Airspeed to approach the localizer prior to becoming established? Is it a hard 180kts, or is there a range like 180-220kts?

That's a good range. Use it to get to the localizer faster or slower but once on it you better be 180kts, landing gear out, lights on, spoilers armed and flaps according to speed. Your call how.

2) At what point should the spoilers be armed?

Spoilers deployments: 1.- By you, 2.- Control surfaces at slow speed (By System) 3.- By the main landing gear at touchdown. If you are playing with the spoilers on the glideslope, abort and try it again cause you are coming too fast. You can arm as early as you want but you know option 1.- is out afterwards.

3) Can anyone provide any clarification around when/where/how Airspeed is reduced to landing configuration and flaps applied? Is it in reference to Glide Slope movement as in the first article, or does it occur at two distinct points as the second article suggests?

The Flaps are set by speed. Always be below the max.

4) Is there an 'common' time for the pilot to disarm the autopilot and auto-speed? I've been using around 600 ft, should it be higher? (I realise the latest this can occur is around Decision Height but do pilots tend to take-over earlier to get a feel for the aircraft?)

Up to you. You can turn it off before catching the localizer if you want but you are the facto the Auto-Pilot then. "Decision Height" is the last call to proceed or to abort the landing.

5) I've realised the absence of the cushion effect in FSX makes flaring a little bit awkward. I'm still working on this, but at what sink rate should I be looking to touchdown. Somewhere in the vicinity of -1 to -200 fpm? Assume a dry runway, no wind.

Slow the sink and do not float.

6) At what speed should spoilers be retracted? 50kts?

Once you increase the throllers again after landing they will normally and automatically come down.

7) At what point are flaps set to nil again? Shortly after exiting the runway?

Anytime on the taxiway in your way to your assigned gate.

ATC would be your best teacher for catching the localizer. So register a plan to the airport you want to land with ATC.

Use the GPS to see your flight progress as you excecute the landing. Check it also for distance to the runway. It is there, use it.

Nothing is casted on stone except again and again.

Cheers,

When landing I focus on the landing. On getting the flare right. So I won't stare at the 'shift Z' info at that time.

But I got me a tool that saves the fps at touchdown and did a quick flight in the default b737-800. I landed as usual, and the prog showed 122 fps at touchdown, which it rated as 'perfect'.

So far, what I usually used as measure is switching "crash detection" on in fsx. With that, a landing that breaks the aircraft will end as "crash" message. The game then ends abruptly.

Anything more gentle then that is ok, does not break the aircraft, and is survivable for the passengers.

Happy flights!

il.

... the prog showed 122 fps at touchdown, which it rated as 'perfect'

I think you mean FPM (Feet Per Minute), not FPS (Feet Per Second, or Frames Per Second).

122 Feet Per Second would be over 7000 feet per minute and anything but "perfect". ;)

peace,

the Bean

122 Feet Per Second would be over 7000 feet per minute and anything but "perfect". :D

Awwww, that's just a good, solid, Navy landing! :rolleyes: :p :pilot:

On the other hand, aside from 5 fingers, we have the fact that there probably isn't a plane made that can take a 7000FPM landing. 700, yes, not 7000. Still...

Have fun, all!

Pat☺

But I got me a tool that saves the fps at touchdown and did a quick flight in the default b737-800. I landed as usual, and the prog showed 122 fps at touchdown, which it rated as 'perfect'.

FPM at landing doesn’t say everything.

I prefer a somewhat harder (within limits) landing on the TD mark over a “floater” to achieve a low FPM-number.

Usually, you’ll know from yrself if a landing was a good one.

Wim

One tip. As long as you follow a fixed descent angle. (for example the glideslope.). The faster your horizontal speed, the faster your vertical speed will be as well.

So more knots airspeed means also more fps downward.

Usually, you’ll know from yrself if a landing was a good one.

Yeah, if your legs still work, and you're still as tall as you were before the touch down, it was a good landing.

If you can reuse the plane after it, it was a GREAT landing!

Have fun!

Pat☺

adding to previous post:

fewr knots on final during glideslope means less FPM in that phase. That can make the flare a bit easier.

At full flaps, below 140 knots the default 737 gets very close to stalling. At low weight that is.

With more fuel on board that speed will be higher.

It may be tempting to fly as slowly as possible, but that can make going around very difficult. Adding a few knots makes going around easier.

---

Other tip. When taking over manually, thrust jumps to joystick throttle position as soon as you move that. So if throttle handle is at 80%, but thrust at that time is 40, then once you disconnect AT, and move the throttle a slight bit, thrust jumps to 80.

To prevent thrusyt jumping up. Before disconnecting AT, look at actual thrust on gauge. If it's around 40, move the throttle handle to around the 40% position.

Then disconnecting AT will not cause a jump in thrust.

(added to post, as editing original post is not possible for some reason.)

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your input. I'm surprised there seems to be so much 'flexibility' or latitude when it comes to landing procedure.

It was just an assumption I had I suppose whereby I thought perhaps Boeing had issued very clear and precise instruction in relation to landing procedure. Clearly not.

Trent

Hi everyone,

 

Thanks for all your input. I'm surprised there seems to be so much 'flexibility' or latitude when it comes to landing procedure.

 

It was just an assumption I had I suppose whereby I thought perhaps Boeing had issued very clear and precise instruction in relation to landing procedure. Clearly not.

 

Trent

Trent- It's a flight simulator, you can make it as simple or complex as you see fit! I have always used checklists from the following and they have never given me any problems. The day you crawl into that REAL cockpit seat, is the day you need to concern yourself with the "Real Deal!" JMHO

http://freechecklists.net/simchecklists.asp

Good luck and enjoy your flight simming! - Rick