Stormclouds on the horizon of Flightsim world?

Jeez, already?

From a user's perspective it's easy to fall into the illusion that it's all just a bunch of guys and gals having fun flying our imaginary airplanes.

Then, every once in awhile you're reminded that this is a business for some, and there is green paper being exchanged and livelihoods at stake.

Whenever I get one of these inadvertent peeks under the carpet I always feel a bit disconcerted. Not always just fun and games, it seems.

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/509670-pmdgs-official-position-on-dtgs-fsw-pending-p3d-update-etc/#comment-3616551

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/509763-07may17-the-sorts-of-behaviors-that-cause-me-concern/

I guess that's the difference between payware and open source.

The bottom line is payware is there to make money.

I work in IT and write very basic programs. Some of these take many months of effort. Dread to think how much time has to be spent on a simulator.

It's a shame MS didn't offer the flight sim community FSX with an open source licence.

That is the only way a complex program of this type will every improve beyond it's profit margins.

When referring to something it is never a bad idea to give some sort of synopsis, because not everyone is interested enough to plough through two whole Avsim discussions.

The way I understand it, PMDG are whining that they would only be allowed to sell their products via DTG's Steam channel, something they are not willing to do because that would mean surrendering 65% of their revenue.

How surprising is that? DTG is not a charity, and their business model has been known for a long time.

Also, PMDG caters for a very select group of flight simmers, those particularly interested in study aircraft of the heavy type (big iron). DTG have made it abundantly clear that they are aiming for a different target group altogether, those interested in decent flight models and systems but not per se hyperrealistic ones.The laws of supply and demand apply here. Just not enough potential buyers for PMDG's products.

When referring to something it is never a bad idea to give some sort of synopsis, because not everyone is interested enough to plough through two whole Avsim discussions.

The post was specifically designed to give others the opportunity to read Mr Randaqzzos words themselves and also to interpret them themselves rather than through the filter of my own particular viewpoint and understanding.

Doing otherwise would invite the ruder and feistier, or as Tom Allensworth once said, the more "passionate" among us to address their comments to my interpretation (if any) rather than addressing Mr Randazzos actual remarks.

I've been on the various fora far too long to not know where that can go.......

The post was specifically designed to give others the opportunity to read Mr Randaqzzos words themselves and also to interpret them themselves rather than through the filter of my own particular viewpoint and understanding.

I appreciate that, but you have to admit your message was somewhat cryptic :)

Addendum.

After watching Frooglesim News a few moments ago, it appears that DTG's Flight Sim World might not even contain heavies, at least not in its first incarnation !

Even more cumulonimbus clouds in the flightsim world :D

The way I understand it, PMDG are whining that they would only be allowed to sell their products via DTG's Steam channel, something they are not willing to do because that would mean surrendering 65% of their revenue.

That is incorrect (or at least incomplete) information.

DTG rep's Aimee and Cryss have both stated unequivocally that devs are free to continue selling via their existing distribution channels...

provided they also allow distribution of the same product via the Steam portal.

That is incorrect (or at least incomplete) information.

 

DTG rep's Aimee and Cryss have both stated unequivocally that devs are free to continue selling via their existing distribution channels...

 

provided they also allow distribution of the same product via the Steam portal.

True, I stand corrected. Apparently, it is PMDG that refuses to (also) use the Steam distribution channel, thus (voluntarily) ending a constructive relationship with DTG.

It seems to me PMDG could charge a lower price via their own distribution channel (or rather, make the Steam version more expensive), so why all the fuss ?

...

 

It seems to me PMDG could charge a lower price via their own distribution channel (or rather, make the Steam version more expensive), so why all the fuss ?

Many people do not wish to deal with Steam, period. A quite understandable attitude.

Many people do not wish to deal with Steam, period. A quite understandable attitude.

Yes, but they wouldn't have to. In fact, they could get the exact same product cheaper at the developer's site.

Yes, but they wouldn't have to. In fact, they could get the exact same product cheaper at the developer's site.

Yes, but perhaps the developer, for similar reasons as others, does not want to deal with Steam.

Yes, but perhaps the developer, for similar reasons as others, does not want to deal with Steam.

Gotcha.

Yes, but they wouldn't have to. In fact, they could get the exact same product cheaper at the developer's site.

DTG Flight Sim World will be only distributed by Steam...ergo, you will have to deal Steam one way or the other if you use their sim.

DTG Flight Sim World will be only distributed by Steam...ergo, you will have to deal Steam one way or the other if you use their sim.

We are referring to 3rd party add-ons not Flight Sim World.

& no-one is forcing anyone to buy the latest game, as DTG calls it!

So, what we know so far is that it will be a paid beta release, it will include A2A & Orbx stuff, initially, it will have GA singles & twins, it will not be backward compatible to anything, payware developers will be locked into using DTG/Steam as an outlet (yes, they can also use their existing sales streams, & we have no word about freeware developers!

DTG Flight Sim World will be only distributed by Steam...

Hm, not quite. DTG have their own distribution channel as well https://store.dovetailgames.com/eu/product/442173/flight-sim-world

Maybe, just maybe, FSW, coming from DTG, a gaming studio, that gave us fishing & train games, is targeting the gamer, as they are also calling FSW a game? Maybe us long time simmers are actually not their target market? We thought we were with their Flight School as well.

Just maybe?

Hi Folks,

As someone with a leg in both worlds - and familiar with DTG's train efforts - not a great deal of enthusiasm from me...

Interesting you mention Open Source as that's exactly what was done on the Train Sim side - they built a completely new simulator that read all of the old MSTS stuff (so the years of developing content weren't lost) - far surpassing the original...

Regards,

Scott

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

If I may add my two cents to what Nels said.

Some hardcore simmers expect the new "killer sim" to contain everything that FSX/P3D or XP11 contains, including the billion zillion add-ons (Orbx, A2A, PMDG, what have you ...), but it should sell for no more than $29.99, and on top of that, everyone else should be allowed to sell add-ons without the original developer seeing any of the revenues.

Shirley, you can't be serious ;)

... because that would mean surrendering 65% of their revenue.

 

How surprising is that? DTG is not a charity, and their business model has been known for a long time.

This sounds to me like you're being critical of one organization for the same motivations that you're supporting another. If that is the case, how about you give me 65% of every penny you get in the next year. Just because I am another with similar motivations.

...

 

It's quite possible that this is not the sim for the hard core user currently part of the community here at FlightSim.Com. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

This seems endemic to all "sims" today. I believe to a new generation of gamer "sim" merely means you can do something on your computer that you do in real life - drive a car or truck, fly an airplane, play golf, etc. - but they have little interest in how realistically the experience is modeled.

Threads here and on race sim sites show that many newcomers don't want to learn anything to play a game; rather than learning navigation, engine management, fuel management, procedures, etc., they just want to hop in an airplane and "fly" over pretty scenery; rather than learn driving techniques and how to tweak setups they just want to hop in a car and "race". And it seems for many the goal is to merely create videos to upload to youtube. Now, I'm not knocking this, we all enjoy games as we see fit; but this is indicative of a diminishing market for true sims, so there is little incentive for a developer to "go the extra mile" creating accurate, realistic physics when the majority of the market will be satisfied with arcade physics.

...As a further parallel to examine, look at what DTG has been doing with train simulators. They started as Rail Simulator, rebranded as Railworks and then as Train Simulator 20xx with the xx changing each year. Train Simulator 2017 is a pretty advanced product with lots of third party add-ons...mostly available as DLC at Steam. This has worked well for DTG so you can see why they would go the same route again with flight simulators.

Ah, Train Simulator - an exemplar of what i find reprehensible in many modern games. Remember when you could get demos of new games? You could play one level, or drive one car on one track, or play for thirty minutes; and if you liked that you could purchase the complete game. Today developers want to sell you that demo then nickel and dime you to death with "DLC" to flesh out the game. I looked at Train Simulator a couple of years ago; for your initial $40 you got a mere two trains and two routes ...but there was, at that time, $3600 worth of DLC available (many individual items costing more than the game itself). Certainly with that much available they could give more than two trains in the base game (how would MSFS have fared if your $80 investment netted you, over the entire world, two airports and two aircraft, with everything else available as separate purchases).

This sounds to me like you're being critical of one organization for the same motivations that you're supporting another.

Where do you get that idea from? Both are in it for the profit, one maybe a little more so than the other, or maybe not. I was just wondering, why would PMDG be surprised that DTG wants a cut of the revenues?