MAD1

Thanks Inuss, that helps explain stuff. As I have not bothered to "fiddle under the hood" and am content for now for the "out of the box" experience, especially re "... if it ain't broke ..." etc., what you say makes sense. Am happy to leave it as is. I thought the atc_id might be related to the inbuilt AI system whereby when a pilot lodges a flight plan, that a persistent unique identifier, the N number, might be assigned, and I might be able (somewhere, somehow) to look up the aircraft's flightplan: type, departure and destination. But I also thought, well, it might all just be random number generation stuff, and also of no particular interest to me in my flight, given that AI traffic really is pretend, within the pretend world of the sim itself (as opposed to say being connected into VATSIM with real people behind those aircraft). Once I've finished interacting with that AI traffic, even it's just to see it taxi ahead of me and take off, or am on holding short of the active runway waiting for a plane on final to land and taxi off the runway, it's irrelevant to me about that aircraft after that. (PS: for anyone reading this thread and post #7 by Inuss, I cross-posted today in the Outer Marker forum, a new thread "Navigation: GPS v VOR".)

Thanks Larry for the response. All understood and as I expected. My thinking is to, at least in my early learning, as I'll be flying VFR all the way, to put the VOR location coordinates into the GPS as waypoints, and then do the transition from pure cross country into the airport's approach via the Approach chart, and either fly the IFR approach corridor, or fly straight in to the active runway, under inbuilt ATC vectoring (albeit even if that's a bit primitive and unrealistic in e.g. FS2002), join the circuit and then land. Will try this at a controlled airport e.g. Brisbane YBBN. (I have often sat in a pub's beer garden in Brisbane and watched the afternoon airliner traffic coming in, I know the approach paths visually, and where the actual VORs are located in the landscape.) I also would like to learn the VOR-only method, but all the above will occupy me for some months of fun. This familiarisation will then set me up well for the migration into IFR and airliner work. Onwards and upwards!

Hi all, hope this is an appropriate forum to post this question. Apologies, it has become a bit long. As a semi-permanent fs newbie for 20 years, only recently have I "manned up" and decided to "get into it" with more discipline. (Have explored various environments over the years, e.g. VATSIM.) Have old legacy software, FS2002, on a WinXP PC, works fine, suits my needs. (I monitor the forums FS2002 and FS2004, given that I presume 04 isn't too far advanced from 02 so some compatibility. I posted yesterday in FS2002 "FS2002 "out of the box" experience." #6 re ATC AI aircraft and nav). This question is generic to flying, real world (RW) and simming, and I presume the "way we do it" is not dependent on the software or version one is using. My self-discipline is to follow the built-in training (Rod Machado flight school) and work my way up through the Private Pilot etc. ratings. Am sticking with the stock-standard Cessna 172, am practising improving my circuits, fairly OK with them now. Starting to explore cross-country flying, and using the built-in ATC calls with AI traffic around me (especially from Brisbane International, YBBN). All good, interesting, fun stuff. (Boy, the Microsoft family of Flight Simulator is rich and deep, the deeper you go the deeper it gets, as with all the flight sim world!) Have done a couple of short hops from my local YLIS to the next country airport YBNA, 30 km by road. Did simple nav, without nav instruments, just headed out east and I could see YBNA. I know I could nav north by following the coastline visually up to Brisbane. (I don't have any add-on scenery etc., am interested in the flight model moreso than scenery realism, so not much scenery to use to be able to nav visually.) I know I can simply follow a straight line bearing course and will get to my destination. I explored the built-in Flight Planner yesterday and saw that when I put in my destination in that, VFR type, the GPS shows the route. Very handy. I had wanted to learn GPS. I also have FS2000 and have read the hardcopy book that came with that, cover to cover many times, including the VOR nav methodology, but haven't ever started to train in it. So here's the question: I was wondering if GPS is slowly replacing VOR nav methodology in RW and sim. Am thinking to not bother learning the somewhat arcane VOR methods and just teach myself GPS. I did some net searches and found as suspected, that it seems that VOR is being phased out, at least partially, in favour of GPS, worldwide and in Australia (this article is old, 2013): "On 4 February 2016, GNSS will become mandatory for all aircraft operating IFR. From this date about 200 ground-based navigation aids (VOR, NDB, DME) will be decommissioned. The remaining navaids will form the Back-Up Navigation Network, which is intended to run until 2025". My local Lismore YLIS had a NDB but it was closed down some years ago. Q1: So where is the world headed re nav? Q2: Is it worth my while to learn VOR or just go with GPS only? Q3: Re Approach/Departure, and the charts, I see that VORs are integral, so would they be simply replaced with GPS waypoints? You gurus will know the answers. Thanks in advance, cheers, MAD1.

Recently, I've been sitting in my C172 with engine off, at Gate 73 at Brisbane International YBBN which gives a good view of and quick access to the active runway (rwy 1), and was studying how the ATC AI traffic (built-in to the sim "out of the box", no add-ons). Learnt a lot. Have recently read through the ATC Handbook in the training section, also have read the Help. Got some questions, can't find any mention of this stuff. (Presume this is similar in FS2004, FS9.) 1. AI aircraft are parked at gates, they start up and taxi to and hold at the active runway (rwy 1). I see them taxing up, and queuing up, looks good. I hear them when my radio is tuned to Ground, then I learnt the trick, I request taxi for takeoff, get it, then allowed to tune to Tower, so then I can hear them waiting for take-off clearance, and approaching AI traffic on final, which I can see, and I see them land and taxi towards a gate. Question: on the ground their callsigns are e.g. "Orbit 3750" but as soon as they lift off, the label appears above them as e.g. N16488. Hence: Orbit 3750 > N16488 Airwave 3502 > N36808 and the landing planes are in the reverse N16488 > Orbit 3750 N46472 > Orbit 7546. All a bit confusing, why doesn't it have the label "Orbit 3750" above the plane once airborne? The ATC comms still refers to it as e.g. "Orbit 3750". Can someone give me an explanation of this, how this works in FS2002 (and I presume later versions FS2004 etc.)? Is there somewhere where I can read up on this? Q2. I thought it might be related to lodged flight plan IDs etc. So I went into the Flight Planner (I thought for the first time, but saw a saved plan, which I must have played with years ago, but have forgotten all about it). Neat, I read about and then did a short hop from Lismore YLIS to Ballina YBNA and could see the flight path on the GPS. So am overjoyed that I've learnt two new things today. But in the Flight Planner I didn't see any reference to "N..." id's etc.

Hi Raven Flight, am interested in your progress on your journey re MSFS, since I joked with you a month or so ago (am that "downunder" guy, hope you didn't take offense, it was all just in good fun). I might give myself a retirement present in 2021 (if I do indeed retire, at 66) and go for MSFS, but like many old guys, I don't want to spend thousands to get a workable setup, so will content myself for now with my legacy world of FS2002, given I got it free. You certainly sound as though you know your way around a PC, and can build from scratch. Your posts, and others, is a little scary to me re the cost and all the glitches that one might encounter to get to that holy grail of a reliable, good, modern sim "as shown on TV" etc. Cheers, MAD1.

How do you find all this stuff Chris? Is it a download file of objects so you have data of where they are, or are you simply flying around and seeing them?

Hi Bob, interesting read, man you are keen to do all that prep but I suppose the reward is there. So how did you go doing the actual flight/s?

Interesting series of posts in this blog. Am having similar experiences in a more newbie status, also using the default Cessna 172. Used the autopilot for the first time today, boy, that certainly made flying a lot easier, what with setting the heading and altitude holds.

It's like most things in life, simply enjoy what you have or can afford. For me, seeing I was given over 10 years ago (I think, long time ago, forget actually) two free kits - FS2000 and FS2002, and have FS2002 installed on my PC. Only used it a bit over the last few years, but in last few months made a concerted effort to get into it. It meets my needs just fine. Am learning heaps and enjoying, especially as I decided to stop "playing around" and discipline myself to go through the training properly, and now that is paying dividends. As the old saying says "whatever floats your boat" or perhaps my correctly in our FS environment "whatever flys your plane"!

Hi David, just looking in FlightSim.com blogs area for the first time. I like your blog posts. This one is very good, I agree with everything you say.

Hmm, all very interesting Jim, and thanks for the nice long, newsy post, plus pic. As I've said in a few posts now, the deeper I go into this FS world, the deeper it gets! A very, very rich environment, especially when one can chew the fat with a few buddies around the world, irrespective whether they're a "Junior Member" like me, or an old pro "VIP Member"" like you. I think that's what's meant by the word "fraternity"! Will look up your route and your plane when I get a chance.

I should also acknowledge Chris Tarano, who has also helped me, he was the first FlightSim member I reached out to, given he's still active in the FS2002 forum.

Hi Jim, yes sorry, YBNA Ballina, about 30 km by road east of YLIS. I forgot to ask you "where did you fly yesterday"? Why are you interested in obscure folk like me, given there's thousands of sim flights worldwide daily? Seeing you've been a FlightSim member since 2005, you must have oodles of experience and skills. Bob Seaman has given me some great tips and help, including the Space Shuttle SRTM mission's worldwide data link. Have downloaded the zip file but haven't installled it yet. And yes, the more I read deeper into the history of Microsoft Flight Simulator and all the versions, am very impressed by the effort the development team/s went to over the years re realism. Was reading the other day in the Help, I think it was the ATC Handbook, where they said they visited a number of ATC offices and tried to get the sim as close as possible to real world activity. Anyhow, any version of FS has such depth that one doesn't get bored easily, always something new to learn.

Well Jim, you didn't specify what sim version, but given the "... don't care ... Cub ..." comment, here goes - my "permanent newbie" and "legacy sim" status yesterday was: FS2002 standard Cessna 172, flight 1: my local YLIS circuit, flight 2: first time to do a hop, VFR, YLIS to YBAL. Was teaching myself for the first time really, properly, the built-in ATC calls. Quite realistic! (uncontrolled airports, so all were "Traffic ...". Took notes. Flight 3: YBBN Brisbane International, C172, circuit (was trying to see the ATC Artificial Intelligence (AI) aircraft to appear so I could make a better comment to help in forum "FS2002" post by Rdjacksim "How do you make ai ships and ai aircrafts appear in fs2002". Murphy's Law struck, and all my time there none appeared, whereas when I've been there before and not interested in AI aircraft, there are numerous aircraft! Oh well, that's how it goes. However, I did enjoy and learn much yesterday.

If you mean the Air Traffic Control (ATC) Artificial Intelligence (AI) generated aircraft taxing and flying around an airport that comes with the software, I installed FS2002 "out of the box" years ago and the ATC AI was there, working fine. Normally I have ignored it, by disabling it in the settings, but recently I've been interested to interact with the built-in ATC and the AI aircraft, it's simply to turn it on in the settings.

Hi Raven Flight and Napamule, I see you're both online (green) at the moment. How did you go so far Raven Flight with your setup, are you making progress?

Huh? Somebody might be upside down, I know I definitely am not! And that Mercator map bloke, his maps are very definitely always upside down. My copy is hanging on my wall the correct way up, just so happens the USA is at the bottom! :p

Hi Raven Flight, I'm an "old old old newbie" in Australia. Am old re being 65, seems many of the fs'ers are of this era. Am also old re fs and a newbie as I never seem to get out of just-starting mode. Am using old gear - WinXP pc and FS2002, is enough for me for now, "legacy fs". Having been a pilot you've got that covered. The FS world is easy to pick up, and yes, an endless world of fun and via this website also good companionship. Have a browse through the forums, they're very informative. Take your time and enjoy the journey!

Hi Rebrecs, no haven't looked at Juneau yet, you in your first post that started this thread made Juneau sound interesting and mysterious, that's all I meant, to go have a look at the airport. (My default is simply the default Cessna 172, so no fancy flying by me!)

This is a very good suggestion by Raven Flight. I was always interested in airplanes since I was a toddler. My Dad took me to a local airshow when I was about 9 or 10 and we went for a joyride in something like a Cessna. I did just as Raven said, I was in the copilot seat (front, right side), Dad was behind. It was the thrill of my young life! Give your son a Christmas present of such a flight. That will further ignite his passion.

Great screenshot Chris. What aircraft is that?

Oops, sorry, Malcott you're UK, so me east coast Australia UTC+10, -10, 22-10=12 noon) so this international time thing is challenging.

Hi Malcott, I see you're "green" online just now. Strange time for you, must be (let me see, my time + ~8 hours - 1 day, say 2200+8=0600 Wed 25/11, oh, so it's your sunrise, good morning!) Well, Juneau, I'll have to check it out.

The Wellcamp story is quite amazing. It's west of Toowoomba on the Darling Downs, Queensland. They have major freight these days, delivering fresh farm produce into Asian markets: a vegetable or fruit picked this morning is on the supermarket shelf tomorrow morning in Singapore, Hong Kong, Shanghai. 747 freighters fly regularly.

Hmm, like-minded folk in this forum! I too have been into amateur astronomy since an infant (growing up in the country, with very dark skies). Not surprising, any aviator would have to appreciate the sky, after all, we all look up. (My joke, to the fella skiting about his new big screen TV, I say in reply "yeah, I got a big screen, bigger than yours mate, mine shows half the universe, just look up"! I've never read or got into how the traditional navigators - seafaring and aviators, could do those amazing long journeys with celestial navigation, it's quite amazing. That "dead reckoning" thing, with an occasional fix to check the calcs. We seem to have forgotten much more than our modern technology makes us believe we've got nowadays, what with the GPS on everything. Mind you, I prefer the modern vs the old, e.g. this Internet thingy is quite amazing, I can watch the SpaceX crew launch in very high res from my lounge room. And chat to you guys ...